8mm Forum: Red Fox release of a Universal 8 film (2 x 400), how many?

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Topic: Red Fox release of a Universal 8 film (2 x 400), how many?

Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 01, 2015 07:23 PM

I found on Ebay a listing of our member "Xanadu".

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LPP-Super-8mm-Sound-film-XANADU-/261793697403?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3cf41ece7b

Jonathan says:

quote:
A Red Fox release of a Universal8 film. These are the 2 x 400ft editions someone has edited together onto a 800ft reel. No box. Nice low fade LPP colour

The color is very nice far different from the original U8 that are mostly warmth.

So how many titles had Red Fox released U8 titles?

cheers

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Winbert

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted March 03, 2015 02:19 PM

It gives hope that perhaps Red Fox reprinted "The Blues Brothers"

... and that LPP blu-ish-ness wouldn't detract from the digest! [Big Grin]

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
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posted March 03, 2015 10:55 PM

Facsinating that there are low fade prints from early 1983. This was shortly before the 1980s revival took off, so it was quite brave step for Red Fox to do this at the time.

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Adrian Winchester

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Barry Attwood
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1411
From: Enfield, U.K.
Registered: Aug 2003

posted March 03, 2015 11:51 PM

I may be able to help with this, we heard a rumour in the early 1980's that Red Fox were going to bring out new Universal titles to 8mm. I actually wrote to them in America, and after a few weeks got a reply, what was actually happening was that Red Fox bought up some OLD stock from the Universal 8 creditors, but at that time they did not (or could not) think they would be releasing any new titles.

I think about a year later Derek Simmonds bought all the remaining stocks of Universal 8 titles that were available, some even had to be re-recorded back into English editions.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 04, 2015 12:31 AM

quote:
Red Fox bought up some OLD stock from the Universal 8 creditors

Barry, with your statement above, it means Red Fox did not print any titles. But the above listing shows LPP quality plus the lab is dated 1983 which is obviously far above the time of U8 period.

Do you have any clue to what is happening?

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Winbert

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Jonathan Trevithick
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 569
From: Gold Coast Australia
Registered: May 2012

posted March 04, 2015 03:15 AM

I guess Red Fox did use some of the Universal 8 negatives but I don't know which others, apart from "Xanadu". I have uploaded a photo of the leader which clearly has a negative printing date from Feb 1983.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 04, 2015 03:23 AM

Thanks Jonathan!

Another mystery is revealed now. Red Fox has printed some U8 negatives.

We have to find out how many titles apart from "Xanadu"

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Winbert

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted March 04, 2015 12:42 PM

I would love to hear that "JAWS" 2X400ft was an LLP release ...

and, yet again, a bluishness, wouldn't hurt those waters any! [Smile]

(yep! I'm one to beat a dead horse, or even a slightly conscious one at that!) [Smile]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Barry Attwood
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1411
From: Enfield, U.K.
Registered: Aug 2003

posted March 05, 2015 04:13 AM

I don't think so, I've had quite a few LPP prints over the years of the bigger selling titles like "Jaws" & "High Plains Drifter", I think they re-printed so many, that at the end it was late enough for the new LPP STOCK to be used. All the LPP prints I've come across have the Universal 8 packaging, I don't think Red Fox would have used that. There letter was clear to me, they only bought up some back catalogue stock to re-sell.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 05, 2015 05:00 AM

I think this and maybe one or two other later U8 releases are the only ones on lPP. All 2x 400 prints from U8 that I have ever owned, and most them were the ones purchased by Derann from Red Fox when they ceased trading, were not on low fade stock.

Most of the Red Fox full length features however seem to on LPP more often than not.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted March 05, 2015 01:33 PM

Red Fox also printed on Agfa, as I have a lovely print of "Hoppity Goes to Town" on Agfa, and that was a Red Fox print!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Jonathan Trevithick
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 569
From: Gold Coast Australia
Registered: May 2012

posted March 05, 2015 02:21 PM

Osi, I have a few Rod Fox cartoon prints on LPP or Agfa. "Peace on Earth" has great colour although not the sharpest ever print.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 05, 2015 07:20 PM

quote:
I don't think so, I've had quite a few LPP prints over the years of the bigger selling titles like "Jaws" & "High Plains Drifter", I think they re-printed so many, that at the end it was late enough for the new LPP STOCK to be used. All the LPP prints I've come across have the Universal 8 packaging, I don't think Red Fox would have used that. There letter was clear to me, they only bought up some back catalogue stock to re-sell.

I might have misunderstood your statement, Barry (sorry I am not native English speaker)...but Jonathan's film leader has shown this was printed by Red Fox.

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Winbert

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Barry Attwood
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1411
From: Enfield, U.K.
Registered: Aug 2003

posted March 06, 2015 12:03 AM

Well Winbert I'm stumpped, but if they were using the Universal 8 negatives, then Umiversal 8 would have been on the negatives leader, I can't see Red Fox paying out for a new negative, for what at the time was thought was a DEAD market, very strange.

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Jonathan Trevithick
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 569
From: Gold Coast Australia
Registered: May 2012

posted March 06, 2015 12:44 AM

I forgot to mention on the listing that Red Fox is also found on the tail.There is no reference to Universal on Head or Tail.
My only guess is that Red Fox took the Universal 8 negative and added their own leader/tail before making their own prints. The original negative must have been Universal 8 as their logo appears on screen right at the end.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 06, 2015 01:46 AM

Yes, it would appear a Universal negative that Red Fox gave a better treatment to than Universal themselves.

As I say, had this had been a 2 x 400 print that Universal themselves had distributed, it would almost certainly have been on ordinary SP stock or equivalent.

As Red Fox produced this print from the Universal negative, they placed it on their superior chosen stock of the era, LPP.

I haven't come across any other Red Fox produced 2x 400ft abridged mini features. All the ones I have seen and owned were just Universal produced prints, distributed by Derann.

As I say all the Red Fox prints I have seen or owned have all been on decent low fade stock, but they are always full length prints from a short cartoon to a full length feature.

Maybe there are some later Universal produced prints of the 2x 400ft variety that were printed on low fade stock for example, maybe Blues Brothers or Jaws was, but from the ones I had (which was at least 6), none of them were on low fade stock.

(Slap Shot, The Jerk, North Sea Hijack, Incredible Hulk, Animal House, Little Miss Marker, Buck Rogers)

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted March 06, 2015 11:51 AM

Yet again, Blues Brothers, with a big finger crossed!!!!! [Smile]

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Joe Balitzki
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 529
From: Charleston, SC, USA
Registered: Aug 2005

posted March 08, 2015 08:37 PM

I have the exact same "Xanadu" Digest on LPP stock. Mine also says "Red Fox Films" on the Head & Tail Leaders. I purchased it directly from Red Fox shortly before they stopped selling prints. Obviously it was ordered enough by customers that they decided to use their Lab to manufacture more prints when the stock they purchased from Universal ran out. They also sold a handful of titles in 16mm Sound but whether or not those were reprinted by them I have no idea. I suspect that the minimum order (number) of prints required to be struck by the Lab used was all that was made as the prints are so rare.

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Movie Lovers Do It in the Dark

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 08, 2015 08:40 PM

Nice explanation Joe, thanks for that! [Wink]

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Joe Balitzki
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 529
From: Charleston, SC, USA
Registered: Aug 2005

posted March 08, 2015 08:56 PM

Depending on what Lab was used either 2 negatives side-by-side on 16mm stock were used or 4 negatives side-by-side on 35mm stock were used. If the 16mm negative was used then that would explain the low number of extant prints. Now we know prestriped print stock was used but in what format(s) I have no idea. While its possible that 2 or 4 prints were struck side-by-side then slit apart and then sound striped that seems doubtful. We would have to ask someone who worked in a Lab at the time. I seem to remember reading long ago that some features were printed 4 at a time on 35mm print stock then slit. But what is more likely is that each side-by-side negative was optically printed onto a single prestriped print stock.

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Movie Lovers Do It in the Dark

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Brian Fretwell
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From: London, UK
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posted March 09, 2015 05:49 PM

Yes I think all quad rank (4 prints on 35mm stock) would have been contact prints and likely to be lower quality then the side by side 2 on 16mm film continuous reduction (from a 16mm neg) prints. That info comes from the LGP pack and booklet on Walton Films and how they were made. Also I think that the Derann striper was for un-slit 2 on 16mm film.

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Mark Todd
Film God

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From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted March 09, 2015 06:21 PM

Well it went cheap enough considering then as can`t be many on LPP of anything digest wise about that isn`t from Derann post late 82.

Best Mark.

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Jonathan Trevithick
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 569
From: Gold Coast Australia
Registered: May 2012

posted March 10, 2015 03:00 AM

I originally bought it at a fair price as part of a package deal, so i'm happy. The problem is the high Australia Post shipping charges can be very off putting to the rest of the world. Anyway, it's on its way to its new home in Holland as I type.

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