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Author Topic: Blackhawk and alternate versions of titles ...
Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted May 11, 2017 11:11 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know if any of you have done this as well, but I LOVE looking at different alternate versions of Blackhawk releases from different time periods. I've noticed this especially on the Laurel and hardy's and to a lesser extant, the Chaplins.

This is largely due to thier, at times, using different negatives from different sources. For instance, using a U.S. negative at one time, and then, later on, using a negative that comes from, say, the U.K.

A good example of this is the classic silent short "Big Business", (Laurel and Hardy 1929), in which, one of the prints has slightly different camera angles and such, literally, from shot to shot, (great short!)

Another good example is "East Street" (Chaplin). Comparing the earlier silent version and the later scored version, you see title cards being longer or shorter and shots being longer or shorter as well.

So, anybody else had fun doing this?

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted May 11, 2017 01:50 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's very interesting, Ossi. I don't do that myself (that's sounds too "specialist" to me) but I saw several documentaries in which different (35 mm) versions of silent films were compared. The source is important, for example some European films were censored in the US and so scenes are missing in the American copies ; in other cases the camera that was used for the American version was not exactly at the same place than the European one, so it is interesting to compare.

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Dominique

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Will Trenfield
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Registered: Mar 2016


 - posted May 11, 2017 04:05 PM      Profile for Will Trenfield   Email Will Trenfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It was often the case that films were edited for export to different countries. A happy ending might have been used for the American market and a sad one for the Russian, for example. Some early sound films were even re-made in different languages with a different cast apparently.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted May 11, 2017 04:55 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They were not exactly re-made but shot at the same time (to take benefit of the sets). The actors played in one language, then other actors played the same scene in another language and so on. From what I know it seemed there were about three versions of a film. Sometimes an actor who could speak two languages played for two versions but with other partners. I don't know how many films were shot with different versions. This way of filming ended when it was possible to dubb the films.

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Dominique

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Will Trenfield
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Registered: Mar 2016


 - posted May 11, 2017 06:13 PM      Profile for Will Trenfield   Email Will Trenfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Quite right, Dominique. The jungle sets in the "Hounds of Zarloff ( aka "The Most Dangerous Game") were used for the filming of "King Kong" as an example. I've sure I read that "King Kong" was originally intended as a "B" picture so the sets were re-used to keep the budget down.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted May 12, 2017 11:40 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The original "Dracula" is another good example of the two version s of the film produced at the same time for overseas markets. There was, of course, the US Lugosi version, and then, shot at the same time, a spanish version with different actors.

In some ways, the spanish version is better.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

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From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015


 - posted May 12, 2017 04:00 PM      Profile for Joseph Randall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There were at least 2 versions of each of the 12 Blackhawk Chaplin Mutuals, including EASY STREET. The "final" versions were released in 1975 after they were restored by David Shepard.

These latter versions are usually preferred, but in at least one instance, THE RINK, I find the picture quality to be superior in the earlier version that comes from a Kodascope source. There are also some scenes in the unrestored versions that never made it to the restored versions.

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Daniel Macarone
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 224
From: Summit NJ, USA
Registered: Nov 2015


 - posted May 12, 2017 05:51 PM      Profile for Daniel Macarone   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Hitchcock film "Murder" was another film that had an alternate version shot simultaneously, in German language, titled "Mary".

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Will Trenfield
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Registered: Mar 2016


 - posted May 12, 2017 07:53 PM      Profile for Will Trenfield   Email Will Trenfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That film was shot as a silent. Hitchcock was told by the bosses to re-shoot the last reel in sound. He then re-made the entire movie in sound without telling them.

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Bill Phelps
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From: USA
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 - posted May 12, 2017 07:58 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Will aren't you referring to Blackmail? There is a silent version and a sound version. That was done in 1929 and Murder was 1930.

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Joe Caruso
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 13, 2017 11:18 AM      Profile for Joe Caruso     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi, we typed about all this before and it is an on-going study in negative retrieval - Shorty

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Will Trenfield
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 506
From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Registered: Mar 2016


 - posted May 13, 2017 12:33 PM      Profile for Will Trenfield   Email Will Trenfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You're quite right, Bill. I was thinking of "Blackmail". It was Hitchcock's first full-length talkie and "Murder" was his third, released only 13 months later.

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