8mm Forum


  
my profile | my password | search | faq | register | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» 8mm Forum   » 8mm Forum   » Filmguard - Usage (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Filmguard - Usage
Will Trenfield
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 506
From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Registered: Mar 2016


 - posted June 24, 2016 07:07 PM      Profile for Will Trenfield   Email Will Trenfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In the past, to clean films, I've mounted reels on the arms of my editor and hand-cranked the film onto an empty spool. Whilst doing this, I sandwiched the film using a cloth with a strip of whichever witch's brew I was using so that both sides were treated. Given the good reviews of Filmguard, I finally got hold of some. At first, I used the same method but quickly found that a little goes a long way. I had to run the film through again to wipe off the surplus. I ended up by dipping a soft artist's brush with few bristles into the fluid and then brushing it on to both sides of the film between the reels on the editor. I then sandwiched the film using a cotton cloth and hand-cranked the film from one reel to another, repeating the application of the fluid every 100' or so. I thought that the films were reasonably clean before but the cloth was soiled every time after using Filmguard. Picture quality looks good and the projector ran like a dream. Am I applying too little or too much using the brush? How often should Filmguard be used?

 |  IP: Logged

Daniel Macarone
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 224
From: Summit NJ, USA
Registered: Nov 2015


 - posted June 24, 2016 08:18 PM      Profile for Daniel Macarone   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Will, I've used the same method as you, which I'm sure is a standard practice. I always love to see nice, clean picture when I'm done and the sound can even be cleaner, too. Still, I'm relatively new to the hobby and I'd like to hear how much cleaning the more experienced people would recommend. I tend to leave the film guard on after one pass and not wipe it off. Is this leaving an excessive amount on and should the print be ventilated after cleaning?

 |  IP: Logged

Ty Reynolds
Film Handler

Posts: 93
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Registered: Nov 2015


 - posted June 24, 2016 11:15 PM      Profile for Ty Reynolds   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I use the same method to apply. I found that not wiping the excess off results in what looks like water marks on the projected image. They will eventually disappear, but Filmguard has a very slow evaporation rate.

 |  IP: Logged

Phil Slater
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Norwich, United Kingdom
Registered: Jan 2011


 - posted June 25, 2016 05:50 AM      Profile for Phil Slater     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I always wipe off the excess with a tissue, and then leave the film out of it's box for a day or so. If a film has tape splices within it, I always give these areas a careful drying with tissue as filmguard softens splices and if you leave too much filmguard on they can fail on projection, as I found out while giving a show to friends once.

 |  IP: Logged

Phil Slater
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Norwich, United Kingdom
Registered: Jan 2011


 - posted June 25, 2016 05:53 AM      Profile for Phil Slater     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I always wipe off the excess with a tissue, and then leave the film out of it's box for a day or so. If a film has tape splices within it, I always give these areas a careful drying with tissue as filmguard softens splices and if you leave too much filmguard on they can fail on projection, as I found out while giving a show to friends once.

 |  IP: Logged

James Wilson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 230
From: Norwich, UK
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted June 25, 2016 06:00 AM      Profile for James Wilson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,

why not use Cresclean Film Cleaner?
I do and there is a lot less messing about.
You can get it here
http://www.classichomecinema.co.uk/
Regards,
James.

--------------------
James Wilson

 |  IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted June 25, 2016 05:01 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
If you've used Filmguard James, you'll know only too well whatever slight negativity you can level towards the product, you'll know also is soon more than overtaken by its superb and superior cleaning and lubricating qualities that make any problematic print run like a dream through the gate.

Tape splices can be an issue with FG, but a CIR created splice using Jackro tape soon puts and end to any issues with spices softening and becoming detached in the gate.

Used in this trio, the product cannot beaten I'd say and is extremely gentle on vulnerable pasted striped film as a bonus.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

 |  IP: Logged

Will Trenfield
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 506
From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Registered: Mar 2016


 - posted June 29, 2016 06:33 PM      Profile for Will Trenfield   Email Will Trenfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the comments all. It seems that my method of applying Filmguard with a fine brush every 100 ft of film is ok but how often should it be applied? Andrew, you refer to Filmguard softening splices. Do you mean cement splices?

 |  IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted June 29, 2016 07:11 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
No will, not cement, there is absolutely no point in pursuing that avenue nowadays seeing as the vast majority of low fade are on Ester.

No will, i was referring to the standard splice tapes that can be purchased from e bay and the likes that are 4 frames wide, and still work perfectly fine with splicers such as the Agfa FS 8 and the likes.

They work fine but they can be weakened very easily by the use of Filmguard on our films.

In this instance, I've found that decent C.I.R. tape works far better and has a far superior adhesive strength than the pre formed tape splices that fit the remainder of our tape splicers on the market, that's all.

Even then, as always, you really need to use a roller on the finished splice at considerable pressure to gain a fully professional splice through the gate I've found.

Once the technique has been mastered however, you need not never re visit a splice ever again though I've found!

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

 |  IP: Logged

Will Trenfield
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 506
From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Registered: Mar 2016


 - posted June 29, 2016 08:21 PM      Profile for Will Trenfield   Email Will Trenfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, Andrew. My main interest is in family films which use cement splices. I have some commercial prints with the splices you describe so I may need to do some work in the future. How often do you think Filmguard should be applied?

 |  IP: Logged

Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted July 03, 2016 02:25 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I also use FG, have to say i learned not to apply too much etc via this forum, we were getting pooling and streaks.
We also use the 4 frame splice tape.(& have done for over 30 years), but, just to add a note here, we cut the four frame splices in half so they cover only two frames, so far we have only had two come apart due to the film guard,(in our early days of use), but this was only because we were applying too much, once i apply it now we now reverse clean using a clean dry 100% cotton white handkerchief, (i find these the best for cleaning films),i only apply the very slightest of pressure and this takes off the excess perfectly as well as evening out the whole application perfectly.
On the subject of splices, we bought the Fuji splicer brand new from Reel image, the one that works the same way as the CIR but have to say i find the quick splice tapes so much easier, i guess its what you get use to. [Wink]

 |  IP: Logged

Will Trenfield
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 506
From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Registered: Mar 2016


 - posted July 03, 2016 05:02 PM      Profile for Will Trenfield   Email Will Trenfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Good post, Tom. Thanks.

 |  IP: Logged

Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted July 04, 2016 04:15 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Will, by the way, i am sure you already know this, but if you are going to do any joining of reels or splice at all any film try and do it before applying any film cleaner. In my case where i do have to splice a film cleaned with this or any cleaner it is important to ensure the two joins have any fluids removed & are fully dry, otherwise any splice will either not stick fast or fall apart on projection. [Wink]

 |  IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted July 04, 2016 04:23 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Very true Tom, very true! [Smile]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

 |  IP: Logged

Martin Dew
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 204
From: Henley-on-Thames, UK
Registered: Jan 2017


 - posted June 12, 2017 05:40 AM      Profile for Martin Dew     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've started to find that a second application of FilmGuard has an even more deep-cleansing effect on my Super 8 and 16mm films than just one. Clean number two seems to get right into the nooks and crannies, and even has a pretty good shot at mitigating enamel damage.

Has anyone else experienced what appear to be highly beneficial results of a second clean?

 |  IP: Logged

Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted June 12, 2017 07:08 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I bought a bottle 13 years ago and having cleaned my entire collection it is still more than half full.

Really good product.

 |  IP: Logged

Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 12, 2017 12:54 PM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rob

13 years ago. Either you have a very large can or very small collection

Mike

 |  IP: Logged

Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted June 12, 2017 01:49 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Martin, i have often had to give films i buy second hand a second clean. I tend to clean them on rewind arms one way, then, upon rewinding give them a second clean, (using a little less cleaner). This is something that Roger Lilly always showed me when he ran movieland international here in Plymouth.
If its really still coming off bad, (example image attached), i will give it a third clean, then, remove the excess cleaner with a clean 100% cotton Handkerchief. This final removal of excess seems to spread the cleaner through the film nice and evenly, & you will be surprised what still comes off on dirty films.
The attached images are from a First then second application, the third image is the excess removal still showing dirt.
 -
 -
 -

BTW, my films do not ever get this problem, this is a film before any showing. God knows what the black is, and yes i do turn the cloth frequently otherwise one could end up scratching the film. [Wink]

 |  IP: Logged

Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted June 12, 2017 02:54 PM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Be careful. The brown looks like magnetic oxide.

--------------------
Maurice

 |  IP: Logged

Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted June 12, 2017 03:59 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
well Maurice, thats the weird thing, this was a pre striped stock film, not that awful Derann Oxide track.

 |  IP: Logged

Martin Dew
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 204
From: Henley-on-Thames, UK
Registered: Jan 2017


 - posted June 12, 2017 04:08 PM      Profile for Martin Dew     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, Tom. Yes, I clean in a similar manner, and keep swapping over cloths every 2 - 300ft, or when they get discoloured.

Maurice, I don't think there's any protection against some oxide coming off on the cloth, is there? 2.22 used to do that too but I've never registered any audio degradation on any of my stripes.

 |  IP: Logged

Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted June 12, 2017 04:19 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have viewed this particular print and fortunately everythings good. [Wink]

 |  IP: Logged

Gary Schreffler
Film Handler

Posts: 33
From: North Potomac, MD, USA
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted June 12, 2017 05:46 PM      Profile for Gary Schreffler   Author's Homepage   Email Gary Schreffler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does anyone else use Filmrenu? I find that product works very well.

--------------------
My God; It's Full Of Stars!

 |  IP: Logged

Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted June 13, 2017 12:37 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
BTW. I still use the 4 frame splicing tapes but for over 20 years we cut them in half to cover only 2 frames. It has worked perfectly for us all these years. My splices are fine and even with filmguard i have only had two or three fail in those years and with well over 400 titles i call that pretty good. The splicing tapes obviously last twice as long and with only two frames covered there almost as good as any cir or fugi splices ive come across.
I am joing a feature film this week and will post up some images to show you.

 |  IP: Logged

Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted June 13, 2017 12:52 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike, very large film collection & very large bottle purchased from Jack Roe those many years ago.

Seriously, a little Filmguard goes a very long way with super 8, in fact over applying it is not a good idea, although it won't do any harm it can cause steaking on projection (which will clear on it's own after a few runs - it is designed for commercial cinema) and possible sound wow with slippage over the sound capstan.

Restrained application and then a dry re-clean as Tom suggests only gives positive results.

Most films I've never had to re-clean.

Filmguard is safe with professional magnetic stripe, although as the quality of various super 8 striping has varied over the years, occasionally I get some brown oxide on the cloth like Tom.

As long as you're sensible, it has never made any difference to the sound track quality and isn't particularly cause for any real concern.

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2