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» 8mm Forum   » General Yak   » Death Knell of HD-DVD? (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Death Knell of HD-DVD?
Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
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 - posted January 05, 2008 01:40 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Warner Brothers announced Friday that they are no longer going to release movies on HD-DVD, and will market exclusively in standard definition DVD and Blu-Ray;

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/2008-01-04-warner-brothers-blu-ray_N.htm

Could this be the end of the HD-DVD format?

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David Roberts
Master Film Handler

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From: Suffolk. England
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 - posted January 05, 2008 02:26 PM      Profile for David Roberts   Email David Roberts   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
thats interesting paul,here in the uk,i recently noticed our small local branch of woolworth actually having a few blu ray titles in stock,but no hd.
the local blockbuster rental store also has blu ray only,and the local supermarket is selling the toshiba hd player for just over half the original price,though it may be an old model.
it does seem though that blu ray is gaining on hd.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
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 - posted January 05, 2008 09:08 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The fact that they are putting the HD-DVD players at half price means that the stores must have inside info on something being dis-continued, and hoping that the public doesn't know the same.

Besides that, you can buy a BLU-RAY player in the form of a PSP-3 game player at half the price of a standard BLU - RAY player.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

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 - posted January 05, 2008 10:34 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What?

A video format barely being established and quickly becoming obsolete?

-Astounding!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

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From: New Zealand
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 - posted January 06, 2008 01:53 AM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sounds like Beta and VHS all over again, when DVD came out it was "Warner Brothers" that led the way releasing many of there titles, soon after other studios were to follow, I guess the same is happening now, pity for those that have bought into it, no use having the player and not the films. [Frown]

Graham.

PS. Has anyone seen "Blu-Ray" in action?, been wondering what it might be like connected to the latest Panasonic VP, or LCD tv.

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Maurice Leakey
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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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 - posted January 06, 2008 04:13 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am told that Blu-Ray discs are not region coded.

Is this correct?

Maurice

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Maurice

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Mark Todd
Film God

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From: UK
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 - posted January 06, 2008 05:23 AM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some are Maurice and spme aren`t, apparently there can be playback issues and gremlins regarding the java script thing with blue ray and other things to.
I`m interested however I still think good ordinary dvd is brilliant and I read a couple of months ago ordinary dvd is still steaming ahead in terms of popularity, its a real shame the VMD HD format is so poorly backed as that would have been far better really more of a progression rather than a forward side step.
Best Mark.

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Lee Mannering
Film God

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From: The Projection Box
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 - posted January 06, 2008 05:36 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Amazing Super 8 is still here then eigh lads.

Graham. My dad is still recording Betamax on his Hi-Fi stereo machine and it delivers a decent picture even yet. When all were going VHS dad & I purchased a number of the stereo machines and these have kept dad going on Beta. After all these years the tapes seemed to have held up very well if well stored.

Happy Beta day.

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Ricky Daniels
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From: London & Kent UK
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 - posted January 06, 2008 07:37 AM      Profile for Ricky Daniels   Email Ricky Daniels   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
...and only last year Warner announced it was to release it's titles in the TOTAL HD disc format. "What's that?" I hear you say [Eek!]

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-12760_7-9676225-5.html

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Graham Sinden
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From: Kent, UK
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 - posted January 06, 2008 08:18 AM      Profile for Graham Sinden   Email Graham Sinden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think the problem is that there isnt a big enough gap between standard DVD and High defination (unlike the tape versus disc). For myself Im still happy with standard DVD and all the benefits it offers like special features, and I dont see buying blu-ray just for a slightly better picture as most films I watch are old anyway and not likely to come out in blu-ray for quite some time.

However a Blu-Ray recorder I would be interested in [Razz]

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Lee Mannering
Film God

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From: The Projection Box
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 - posted January 06, 2008 08:56 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Graham.
Panasonic are bringing out a new range of Blu-Ray stand alone recorders so we have been told by our Pana rep. The usual black box design and a high starting price, better wait a few years for it to stabilise though as the technology is going to be very new and prob full of bugged software as in the first DVD recorder offering from Pana years ago.

Keep that Elmo going.

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Claus Harding
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 - posted January 06, 2008 11:18 AM      Profile for Claus Harding   Email Claus Harding   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It would be excellent if the HD/Blu-Ray war could end this quickly so we can have one format and move on; there should never have been two formats to begin with.

If 'Joe Average' can't tell the difference between HiDef and regular, he must be looking at some pretty poorly set up displays or simply not be paying attention.
Physics don't lie: twice the resolution, run through component or HDMI cables, makes for an image quite improved over conventional 525/625 (upscaled or not.)

What does create some silliness is cable in this transition period. Example:

I have a 27-inch regular TV. The cable shows, say, a channel in 16-by-9, with masking top and bottom. That's fine. Now, the program the channel is showing is shot in 'regular' format, so within the 16-by-9 frame, the square image is masked on the sides.

Now, to really get crazy, the 'regular' program featured is showing 16-by-9 footage which has been masked top-and-bottom AGAIN, so the end result is a picture about 25% smaller than my screen, surrounded by thick black borders on all sides.
I see this on a pretty regular basis. Ah well, this too shall pass...I watch so little TV as it is that it really doesn't matter to me. But a HiDef player I will wait for.

Best,
Claus.

--------------------
"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Graham Sinden
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 - posted January 06, 2008 01:23 PM      Profile for Graham Sinden   Email Graham Sinden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Claus,

Im not saying I cant tell the difference between Hi Def and Standard as I probably could. In truth Ive never looked at a Hi Defination picture ever and compared them. What I am saying is that I am happy with a standard image for now and still enjoy it 110% and will only change when it becomes very affordable.

For me the most important thing is the enjoyment factor and you dont need a super duper projector to enjoy a film or TV programme.

Graham S

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Claus Harding
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 - posted January 06, 2008 01:33 PM      Profile for Claus Harding   Email Claus Harding   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Graham,

Fully agree there; otherwise I would never listen to 78s anymore.
As for the price factor, I am waiting myself. No need to spend 3 times more just to have it 6 months earlier.

Best,
Claus.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Paul Adsett
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 - posted January 06, 2008 01:58 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Personally I have very little motivation to jump on the HD/Blue-ray bandwagon right now. Most of the DVD's that I buy are from the classic period of Hollywood movies, 1930's thru 1950's, and it remains to be seen if any of these will be any better in HD/Blue ray than they are in standard defintion DVD (I doubt it), or indeed if many of them will ever get released at all in HD. Like Graham, I am totally satisfied anyway with standard DVD, which for the most part leaves very little to be desired in terms of picture and sound quality. I think 95% of the general public feel the same way, and I think high definition DVD is going to have a hard time becoming mainstream.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
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Graham Sinden
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From: Kent, UK
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 - posted January 06, 2008 02:15 PM      Profile for Graham Sinden   Email Graham Sinden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Most DVD's you buy nowadays have excellent picture quality in terms of colour, contrast and sharpness and I dont see HD DVD being that much better. And like Paul, classic films could take years to appear on HD and will look much the same. Can you imagine Laurel and Hardy's being improved by HD [Roll Eyes] .

Another technology which I feel is having a hard time is Digital Radio as FM is pretty good and DAB digital radio is not that bigger leap in terms of quality. But eventually the analogue transmitters might be turned off.

Graham S

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Osi Osgood
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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
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 - posted January 06, 2008 07:08 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree about standard DVD. They came out with a "deluxe deluxe" edition of "It's A Wonderful Life", (with just about the same extras) and the picture was supposed to be a hi-def transfer of the original camera negative (which was used for the earlier 40th anniversary edition, which was also restored)

... and I saw almost no difference. Slight highlights, but not enough to make a real difference.

Besides, we literally have as close to film as we can get already in DVD. Not quite, but just about.

It's like with audio, (and I know I've mentioned this before), we have reached the point where the clarity of sound
is beyond what the human ear can decifer, and yet we keep on coming up with even greater sound? What's the point when you can't hear the difference?

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Stewart McSporran
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From: Glasgow, Scotland
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 - posted January 06, 2008 08:41 PM      Profile for Stewart McSporran   Email Stewart McSporran   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I attended a demonstration of Blu Ray HD projection the other week. I have to say I was very impressed. You could walk right up to the screen and not see any pixelation.

I'm tempted to get one, but the media choice seems limited to modern films; plus the upscaling of standard DVDs on the demo rig was very poor. I don't know if that was the fault of the player or projector, but I won't be parting with the best part of £2K until I've found something that can beat my four year old projector for standard DVDs!

Stewart

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Mark Todd
Film God

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From: UK
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 - posted January 06, 2008 08:41 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My son and I were watching the latest bond Casino Royale on Saturday 8 feet wide on our Video projector, a modest 3/4 year old office job and the picture from that standard dvd transfer was unbelievable, never even had 16mm get near so for me theres really no need for anything better.
The recent king kong also looks awesome and like has been said there is loads of older stuff is going to look absolutely no better at all on HD so why bother.
I personally find that much older so so stuff looks better 8 feet wide on a video projector than it does on a TV as they sort of enhance or clear them up a bit if you will.
If dvd keeps on storming ahead like it is doing HD TV etc will blow HD-DVD away almost with standard DVD still being the cheap and great choice if you want to keep a film, I can`t see DVD going bye bye for 10-20 years
We have the 21 dvd Laurel and Hardy set that can now be had for £50 posted or possibly less now and they are wonderful and again projected at 8 feet wide probably look better than on a TV too. Also I see 300 which only came out in october is on standard dvd available for £3.99 delivered and I just can`t see how HD-DVD can ever compete against odds like that.
Blue Ray is fantastic but dvd is still great.
Best Mark.

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Stewart McSporran
Master Film Handler

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From: Glasgow, Scotland
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 - posted January 06, 2008 09:02 PM      Profile for Stewart McSporran   Email Stewart McSporran   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
DVD is great provided the source material is.

I picked up the 4 film St Trinian's set last week and we watched the first one on the projector. I was very annoyed to see an obvious video transfer. If I'd paid more than £10 then I'd want my money back.

On the other hand the remastered Basil Rathbone Sherlock Holmes films look terrific. I've got two on 16mm and if I'm being honest these DVDs are better.

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Mark Todd
Film God

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From: UK
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 - posted January 06, 2008 09:21 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Stewart which Rathbone set is that please, I think there are at least 2 out with them all. Also can you remember what VP you saw blasting BR out ?? did you get the make.?
We have the 1933 King Kong too on dvd and that is fabulous projected but I agreee nothing worse than buying a dvd to find they have just bunged an old VHS master on. Apparently a few of the first blue ray discs were made from shabby transfers, probably something from a standard dvd sourse just tarted up a bit but there was an out cry so looks like they stopped doing it. But just shows for much older stuff a standard dvd is more than enough and all they want to do is sell you stuff with the least effort or cost or value to you they can get away with often.
I thought on the great L+H set that as they put the colour ones on why on earth use the 1982 ish naff computer colourisations or whenever as they would look 300% better if re-done now, I think one or two have been re-done recently and look much better though we watch in B+W anyway.
Best Mark.

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Stewart McSporran
Master Film Handler

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From: Glasgow, Scotland
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 - posted January 06, 2008 11:58 PM      Profile for Stewart McSporran   Email Stewart McSporran   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark,

The Rathbone set is "Sherlock Holmes - The Definitive Collection (Digitally Remastered)". It's on Amazon UK here: Amazon Link

The projector I'm still using is the Sanyo PLV-Z1 which I got four years ago. Its only faults, in comparison to modern machines, is a slightly less than ideal black level and some screen door effects, although not really obvious at normal viewing distances.

I'm dithering about just getting the Z5 which I understand greatly improves the above, but is still 1/4 HD as Sanyo calls it. It's available on the web for under £600. However, since I'll be buying it through my company - I need a "presentation" [Roll Eyes] machine - it's tempting to go to HD.

Unfortunately the local dealers don't carry LCD machines and DLP gives me a headache. I think my persistence of vision is slightly screwed - when scenes pan on films I don't see smooth motion, I see a series of jerky images, even (especially) at the cinema!

Stewart

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Graham Sinden
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Kent, UK
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 - posted January 07, 2008 07:23 AM      Profile for Graham Sinden   Email Graham Sinden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are a number of poor quality standard dvd'd out there. Elstree Hill is a company to avoid as are a few others (i cant remember). But you will get the same with Blu-Ray as discs may differ in quality. When you attend one of these HD demo's they are using specially selected source material as they are there to truimph Hi Def.

The reason The L+H havent been redone is all down to money, the same reason VHS masters may be used for some old films. The companies know that old B/W films do no sell that well so they cant be bothered in spending more.

Graham S

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Claus Harding
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From: Washington DC
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 - posted January 07, 2008 08:21 AM      Profile for Claus Harding   Email Claus Harding   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sad, really, that apart from the 'known' titles like Casablanca and such, that older B/W titles get the brushoff when it comes to HD reissues.
The one exception I can think of is the Criterion Collection, with its HiDef-mastered regular DVDs of restored classics. I am sure they are ready for the HD jump; their stuff is, 99% of the time, fabulous-looking.

Best,
Claus.

--------------------
"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
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 - posted January 07, 2008 10:20 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree, Criterion is magnificent. I'm lookinf forward to getting that Orson Welles film, "Mr. Arkaddin" (a.k.a. Confidential Reporter), as I've heard that it looks stunning.

I'm really looking forward to his last classic being restored ...

"Chimes at Midnight"

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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