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» 8mm Forum   » General Yak   » 35mm is the best!!! (Page 1)

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Author Topic: 35mm is the best!!!
Robert Tucker
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 688
From: Essex, UK
Registered: May 2005


 - posted June 22, 2009 04:29 AM      Profile for Robert Tucker   Email Robert Tucker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I find many people moving over to other gauges for one reason or another. I find generally when people move over to another film gauge. You either need to finance the move being it 16mm or 35mm.

Thou the pay off in moving to a bigger film gauge format is better picture quality overall. With 35mm being the ultimate quality and experience you will find compared with 16mm or even these days Super8.

Has anyone else moved onto another film format for one reason or another and had to forsake and finance the move with the collection they once had in any film gauge!?!

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 22, 2009 05:00 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Of course 35mm is the best and 70mm even better but most of us cant house those larger machines [Frown]

I have been slowly selling a lot of my Super 8 titles in favour of 16mm since getting my 16-CL Xenon but there are some titles on Super 8 I wont sell as they are getting impossible to find on any of the Guages.

If I do find a print of a certain title on 16mm then I will let the print go from my Super 8 colection. This is probably what most collectors would do.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Robert Tucker
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 688
From: Essex, UK
Registered: May 2005


 - posted June 22, 2009 05:33 AM      Profile for Robert Tucker   Email Robert Tucker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kev.

Yes unfortunately 35mm does take up a lot of room and that’s not just the machine the films as well and the reels.

You are right some titles on Super 8 either being classics that are extremely hard to find in any gauge let alone in pristine print quality. Something to note that it’s even harder to find a pristine print in 16mm unless it was only used for TV or has come from a private collector. This of course also applies to 35mm, which with hindsight is sometimes harder to find.

The other factor to take into consideration is film stock and the rarity of the title. With Technicolor prints to find a print that is in excellent as new condition is very rare these days considering they stop printing Technicolor from 1974 onwards.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3083
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted June 22, 2009 06:29 AM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The important thing for me with 35mm is that the era which I am most interested in collecting - from the silent era to the 1940's - is very poorly represented in this guage, in terms of availability to collectors.

The titles I want are most available in 16mm.

For those interested in the modern era, and who also have the space, 35mm is the best there is, without a doubt.

-Mike

ps: perhaps this thread should be moved to the General Yak section????

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Gian Luca Mario Loncrini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1948
From: Verona (Italy)
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted June 22, 2009 06:35 AM      Profile for Gian Luca Mario Loncrini   Author's Homepage   Email Gian Luca Mario Loncrini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm already 'secretly' collecting 35 mm. trailers, excerpts and movies. But the main problems are the ones Kevin and Robert have already mentioned: impossiblity to house those big machines. And in need of so much room to stack films and reels.

It's still a dream. But it could happen, one day. And I'm happy enough just thinking it could. In the meanwhile I do my best to be ready for the event. [Big Grin]

--------------------
I remember when I was (super) 8 years old...

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Fabrizio Mosca
Master Film Handler

Posts: 344
From: Milano, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted June 22, 2009 07:01 AM      Profile for Fabrizio Mosca   Email Fabrizio Mosca   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm adding 35mm to my collection (not moving to 35mm), mainly for short features and new and recent releases that will never find in other formats.

35mm projectors are not so big if you're able to modify them. Some people I know have a 35mm modified projectors (see for example one here: http://www.cinematech.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=4868 ) and I'm doing the same thing with mine.

Lamp, of course, is not xenon, but even a 24V 250W lamp with a proper mirror does a good job in a little projection room.

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Gian Luca Mario Loncrini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1948
From: Verona (Italy)
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted June 22, 2009 07:05 AM      Profile for Gian Luca Mario Loncrini   Author's Homepage   Email Gian Luca Mario Loncrini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My compliments, Fabrizio. This is really interesting.

--------------------
I remember when I was (super) 8 years old...

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 22, 2009 07:16 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Yes I too think thats very interesting. It certainly makes 35mm portable. Maybe that guy should offer that conversion as a service.
Doesnt get over the storgae room needed for 35mm film [Frown]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Fabrizio Mosca
Master Film Handler

Posts: 344
From: Milano, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted June 22, 2009 07:42 AM      Profile for Fabrizio Mosca   Email Fabrizio Mosca   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You're right Kev but as far as you limit to short film you may not experience storage problems.

EDIT:
Furthermore there are some portable 35mm machines (see www.cinemec.it, for example) even with 2500 W xenon bulbs.
I used the one with 1600W xenon bulb and it's really amazing! Sharp picture, excellent sound, excellent light and really quiet.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10122
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted June 22, 2009 09:19 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Though I would be a nut to say that 35MM is not better, its more of a price issue for me.

I've been stunned at some of the films that I have found on optical sound super 8. Though my search for those prints can only go as far back as 1967 and up to 1990, there are some that, to this day, I haven't seen a print of on 16MM, (for instance, the low budget cutie, "Ruckus" starring Dirk Benedict of Battlestar Galactica), or 35MM, but low and behold, there it is on optical sound super 8, and have I mentioned the image quality on optical sound super 8?

Nah, I couldn't have! [Big Grin]

But 35MM is truly the "Gold Standard" only surpassed by 70MM, and even trailers in 70MM are as rare as hens teeth, (and dem is pretty rare, dem is!)

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3083
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted June 22, 2009 01:10 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is anyone else having trouble opening that Cinemec link in Fabrizio's post or is it my PC?

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2389
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted June 22, 2009 01:17 PM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Michael, have you ever seen a "," in an URL? [Wink]

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Fabrizio Mosca
Master Film Handler

Posts: 344
From: Milano, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted June 22, 2009 01:26 PM      Profile for Fabrizio Mosca   Email Fabrizio Mosca   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry guys, I was in a hurry when i posted the link and I didn't notice the ","

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008


 - posted June 22, 2009 01:40 PM      Profile for Martin Jones   Email Martin Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
pity you didn't remove it when you edited!
Martin

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Fabrizio Mosca
Master Film Handler

Posts: 344
From: Milano, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted June 22, 2009 02:21 PM      Profile for Fabrizio Mosca   Email Fabrizio Mosca   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here are the links to the 35mm portable projectors pages:

http://www.cinemec.it/LH400.pdf
http://www.cinemec.it/PX1600.pdf
http://www.cinemec.it/LX2500ST.pdf

They are the correct ones [Wink]

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David Erskine
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 230
From: Letchworth Garden City, Herts
Registered: Aug 2008


 - posted June 22, 2009 02:45 PM      Profile for David Erskine   Email David Erskine   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Fabrizio - fascinating! What sort of (new) prices are they? I've got a GB'N' fitted with 24v 250w lamp and an Eiki sound head - and it cost me £400 (including 10 reels of film!)
Cheers, David E

--------------------
I've NEVER let failure go to MY head!

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Fabrizio Mosca
Master Film Handler

Posts: 344
From: Milano, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted June 22, 2009 03:02 PM      Profile for Fabrizio Mosca   Email Fabrizio Mosca   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David, a brand new PX1600 is more or less 16.000 Euro complete of light source but without lens, if I remember right...

In the italian market, used portable machines go around 2.500/3.500 euro, depending on the type, but if you're able to modify a fixed one into a portable one you may spend less than 1000 euro including all the material and accessory work.

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Gian Luca Mario Loncrini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1948
From: Verona (Italy)
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted June 22, 2009 03:13 PM      Profile for Gian Luca Mario Loncrini   Author's Homepage   Email Gian Luca Mario Loncrini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Fabrizio, would you be in a position to turn a 'fixed' into a 'portable' one 'for sale'? Let me know. I could be really interested.

In case contact me at
gloncri (at) hotmail (dot) it

Grazie.

--------------------
I remember when I was (super) 8 years old...

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3800
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted June 22, 2009 04:46 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What does a GBN look like David ???

Best Mark.

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Patrick Walsh
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 711
From: North Canterbury, New Zealand
Registered: Jul 2006


 - posted June 23, 2009 04:01 AM      Profile for Patrick Walsh   Email Patrick Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A good 35mm portable is this machine
 -

Here is one with a long play system attached
 -

Chinese made 35mm portable projectors made by the SHANGHI AUGUST 1st PRECISON MACHINE CO.

--------------------
"Raise The Titanic!", It would of been cheaper to lower the Atlantic!

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Gian Luca Mario Loncrini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1948
From: Verona (Italy)
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted June 23, 2009 04:58 AM      Profile for Gian Luca Mario Loncrini   Author's Homepage   Email Gian Luca Mario Loncrini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Patrick, this is absolutely great! My compliments!

--------------------
I remember when I was (super) 8 years old...

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Robert Tucker
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 688
From: Essex, UK
Registered: May 2005


 - posted June 23, 2009 07:46 AM      Profile for Robert Tucker   Email Robert Tucker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Patrick,

Hope all is well with your new set up, can you tell me who supplied you with your long playing machine and how much did it cost you!?!

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Damien Taylor
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 111
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted June 23, 2009 07:57 AM      Profile for Damien Taylor   Email Damien Taylor   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Honestly, if you don't mind digging for a print, 35mm is not that bad. the cans stack quite nicely, and they look the shiz.

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008


 - posted June 23, 2009 08:19 AM      Profile for Martin Jones   Email Martin Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark,
try http://www.curzon.org.uk/collection/35GBNportable.html

Explore the site everybody!. I suspect Maurice knows this one already.
Martin

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2389
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted June 23, 2009 12:58 PM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For those who are not familiar with 35 mm projection, I want to clarify a few things.

When we say "Portable", it is wiser to say "Transportable" as these machines are most of the time heavier than a dead donkey. The Cinemec PX1600 weighs 29kg (64 pounds), my Kinoton FP23 weighs 49kg (108 pounds). Once set up, you don't move them around much. Or you put them on wheels.

They are not all "self-contained" (ie plug and play). The Cinemec models are, some older portable machines from Proyecson are, the Buysse-Botazzi 35BB is, the most excellent Portacine from Cinemeccanina is. I think there's also one model from Microcine. What do I mean by "self contained"? They feature a small rectifier - providing they use xenon light (which is not always the case) - a sound amplifier and (sometimes) a built-in speaker. Basically, they are/look like overgrown 16mm machines.

Others will need a separate sound system. You can start with a good old home theatre amp but you soon realize this isn't enough. So you get yourself a Dolby processor, 6 channels of amplification and the adequate speakers. Providing your machine is equipped with a stereo cell (which is not always the case).

If you want to be able to project properly recent trailers and films, your sound head will need to be fitted with a red LED/laser system. The new "cyan track" - designed basically to eliminate silver in the printing of optical track - will not play really well with old exciter lamp systems.

After that, you can also go digital (I'm equipped with DTS sound - that requires a special decoder on the projector and a special CD unit - the result is mind blowing)

To work with Xenon light, some projectors like the "portable" Spectra (Chinese machines that can be purchased new - similar to the one pictured above - our friend Robert just bought two) need a separate rectifier/ballast for continuous power.

Then there's the lens (or lenses) as there's no such thing as a simple zoom lens. Only primers in 2.5mm increments. The best ones are from ISCO or Schneider (they are now the same company). For long-throw, you can sometimes attach an adaptor device (the one I have is called a Magnacom) that will either enlarge or reduce slightly the size of your projected image. There are formulas and softwares to help you with the choice of lenses once you know your screen size and projection distance.

For example, I have a 12ft screen for my set-up at 20ft throw. It is a screen meant for video projection, therefore 1.78:1.
I can fill it in "flat" (1.85:1) with a 35mm lens, use a 50mm optic for 1.66:1 and 1.37:1 and create a letterboxed image for cinemascope with a 70mm lens and anamorphic attachment.

Then there's is the film transport... (Robert, I still have spares to build a Cinemeccanica tower...) Most portable machines are able to play 6000ft spools. The Spectra models need to be fitted with special/longer arms. My Kinoton was originally customized with a 6000ft Microcine film transport. I have removed and replaced it with an IDEF tower for up to 15000ft of film (that's more than 3 hours).

There you have it. I think I covered everything. I also want to add that I still run a lot of super 8 and 16 [Big Grin]

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

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