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Author Topic: Home Cinerama
Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 18, 2009 02:57 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just purchased the Blu-ray disc of How The West Was Won which includes the 'SmileBox' simulated Cinerama version on disc 2. It looks absolutely awesome on my 110 ins wide screen:

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted September 18, 2009 04:24 PM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Smilebox", what a nice word to describe a simulated film format.

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 18, 2009 05:24 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Jean-Marc,
I initially thought the 'Smilebox' was a gimmick, but when I turned it on I was amazed at how much more impactful it was than the 2.9:1 letterboxed version on disc 1. The curve seems to give the image a lot of depth and it also seems to reduce the geometric distortion of the flat 2.9:1 letterboxed version. Also the Smilebox is not simply a masked off version of the letterboxed version, it is a computer genearted image obtained by 'projection' of the three flat panels onto a virtual curved screen. A great deal of effort went into it and it required the talents of some of Hollywood's best digital effects people to get it right. The Smilebox version occupies the full height of the 16:9 projector panel whereas the 2.9:1 letterboxed version only occupies about 60% of the projector panel height. So for this one particular film I think it is a better way to present it.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007


 - posted September 18, 2009 10:58 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, that looks just lovely. Are you accepting reservations? [Smile]

Having just seen Cinerama in person, plus having checked IMDB and other Cinerama-related websites, I am at a loss to explain the aspect ratio of 2.9:1. The filmed image prior to aperture cropping doesn't allow for much more than 2.7:1, and the "official ratio" of Cinerama is 2.59:1. So I'm curious if the HWWW discs or accompanying materials offer any clues to the given ratio, or did they just lop off part of it?

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 19, 2009 08:42 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bill, I'm not taking reservations but you are welcome any time. Just turn up in evening dress like they did for the Cinerama road shows back in the fifties!
From what I have read it appears that in the flat letterboxed dvd and blu-ray version Warners included a little extra of the left edge of the left panel and a little more of the right edge of the right panel. These edges were apparently masked off slightly in the road show projection of Cinerama but obviously exist on the film, so we are getting the full width actually recorded by the left and right camera. In the Blu-ray Smilebox simulation they reverted to the slight left and right cropping to show the film as it actually would heve been seen on the curved screen.
See here for a fuller explanation:

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/437/howthewestwaswon.html

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 20, 2009 09:51 PM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does anyone know if the standard DVD (not Blu-Ray) has the same smilebox option. I could certainly use that as well on my big screen.

Paul I have to ask:

What is the throw distance from your Panny to the screen? Also, how tall is your screen height. I want to measure these and compare to mine (25.5' throw, and 49" tall screen)

CG

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 21, 2009 09:44 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Chip, the 'SmileBox' curved screen simulation is only available on the Blu-ray disc version. I also have the 2-disc DVD 9which is superb quality) and it is not on there. That is the reason I went out and re-purchsed the BD version after I got my BD player.
I still very highly recommend the 2-disc DVD package.

The distance from the Panny to the screen is 19ft 6 ins.
In CinemaScope (2.35:1) mode, with the side masking fully retracted, the screen width is 110 ins and screen height is 47 ins. This is 120 ins diagonal to use TV jargon.
The room is about 12 ft wide, so this leaves about 18 ins on each side for the curtains and masking to retract.
For widescreen (16:9), and Academy (4:3), I pull up the top mask a little to get a height of 50 ins.
For Super 8 scope, because it has a ratio of more like 2.6:1 , I have to lower the top mask, but I still keep the same 110 ins width.
The bottom mask is fixed - I have 3-way masking.
The masking and curtains are on separate tracks, each having their own remote controlled motor. I tried coupling the curtains to the masking and using only one motor, but it was not successful. In any case I like independent control of the curtains and masking for opening effect at the start of the show.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 21, 2009 09:55 AM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you Paul. This is very similar to my setup although I do not have any adjustable masking at all.

When I run DVD scope discs the ratio appears 2:35. There's about 8 inches or so of vertical space on each side of the screen not used.

When I run DVD flat discs for 1:85 the height is filled perfectly with very slight over scan to the masking. And the width is smaller than scope naturally but it still looks great.

At a throw of 25 and 1/2 feet, the Panny zoom lens is set to the smallest size picture with the above results. I can not run standard full frame DVD's because there is too much over scan, to the ceiling and below the bottom of the screen. I could probably come up with something like your setup, but do not have the time or place, just because of the other things stored under the screen that the hobby brings.

Super 8 looks great on my big screen. No format or ratio does anything less than fill the height of the screen. Even 16mm I get full height using 38mm flat lenses in the B&H machines. And they're on the laundry folding table just infront of the booth.

In my setup, the general seating area is about 20 feet or less to the screen.

Maybe sometime you can come here to see it for yourself. I really like what adding the Panny did for this hobby. I mean, I knew I was going to like it after seeing yours. But I have already trippled my DVD collection since getting the Panny. It has added so much mor fuel to this fire of movie watching. And, it was just what I needed. Nevermind the cost of new super 8 feature prints and the fact that they're hardly released these days. Adding the Panny just gave this hobby a new birth.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 21, 2009 10:07 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Totally agree Chip. The addition of projected video does open up a whole new field of home cinema interest and you find yourself watching films that you have never seen before. The technology has now reached the point where I find I get a more enjoyable movie experience at home than in a theater. That would change, I am sure, if the theaters would go back to being real movie palaces with ornate decor and truly massive screens, instead of the cold, black, little multiplexes.
All of which has in no way diminished my enthusiasm for film projection, which is still enthralling to me, and which is increasingly becoming a source of fascination for people who have never seen home movie equipment in action.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 21, 2009 01:00 PM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And I say ditto. Couldn't agree more of what you say.

I was a projectionist in theaters for more than 25 years. Yes, it was a fun job. Yes, I have seen a lot of movies. But after that career, I no longer have the interest in going to public theaters unless a major movie is coming out which generates classic box office demand. Maybe it's because I always feel that I'm back at work. Maybe it's because I can no longer handle crowds the way I used to years ago. Maybe it's those annoying teenagers sitting infront of me texting during a show.

But one thing I do know it is, the fact that I can show many movies at home, without all those problems on a huge screen. I hardly watch TV anymore there's nothing on that interests me. So when mine goes, it might not get replaced. I watch movies on the big screen in the basement. I get news weather and sports on the web without the bombardment of car commercials, erection difficulty medications [Cialis is a small town in Montana, isn't it?] and/or stories of rape, incest, pedophilism, murder, politics, corruption, deaths & taxes. You call that news? Well, it's not entertainment, either!

Chip G

[Big Grin]

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Christopher P Quinn
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 210
From: Bedfordshire
Registered: Sep 2008


 - posted September 26, 2009 06:40 PM      Profile for Christopher P Quinn     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Nice to see you got the blu-ray of How the West was Won. It is brilliantly restored and i too watched the film in smilebox mode. Great stuff and it shows just what can be done.
Chris.

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Chris Quinn Rides again.

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