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Topic: eBay Buyer Protection?

Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted June 19, 2013 10:45 AM

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Has anyone opened a case on eBay? I tried to work things out with the person who sold me the Sankyo Stereo 800 that the motor didn't run, but after promising me he would give me a 50% refund changed his mind. I opened a case on eBay yesterday. Has anyone on the forum had experience with this process and does eBay tend to favor the buyer or the seller?

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010

posted June 19, 2013 10:53 AM

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The buyer in almost all cases. They will issue you a refund including original shipping. Then they will charge it back to the seller. As long as you opened the case as "item not as described:. I'm sure it will work out for you. It takes about 7-10 days.

Pat

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted June 19, 2013 11:52 AM

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Yes Pat...I opened it as "item not as described". The description said that the projector "powers on" and it didn't. It was listed under the category "for parts or repairs" and that is what the seller is arguing. However, if he had not said it powered on...I wouldn't have bought it. I guess I'll just have to wait and see what eBay says. I just wanted to get an idea of other people's experiences that have gone through this process.

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

posted June 19, 2013 12:59 PM

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Seems like I've been lucky on ebay,

quote:
The description said that the projector "powers on" and it didn't. It was listed under the category "for parts or repairs" and that is what the seller is arguing. However, if he had not said it powered on...I wouldn't have bought it.

Of course you wanted it for the motor which he says powered on. I think "for parts or repairs" implies you can use it to fix your own none working projector. If he had said NONE WORKING you wouldn't have bought it.

--------------------
I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 19, 2013 01:59 PM

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I am aware of this process as a buyer AND a seller.
If you file with ebay as item not described they will give the seller a few days to respond. If the seller does not or you are unhappy with the reply you can escalate it to an Ebay Claim.
Once this is done, if they rule in your favor you will have to send the item back to the seller to the original address that they have on file with a tracking number.
Once the item has been received by the seller and proof via tracking number is given to Ebay you will get your refund plus your shipping. The only hitch is that you will have to pay to send the item back to the seller.
In most cases they will side with the buyer if the item was not as described, in this case, described as working but not working.
Good luck!

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted June 19, 2013 11:00 PM

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Thanks Alan for your input. I've never experienced a seller on eBay that wasn't anxious to communicate and come to a mutual agreement. But there's always a first. I'll just have to see what eBay decides. I've been reluctant to send the machine back since I can't rely on the seller to refund my money. He doesn't want to refund me anything. However, if eBay pays me and then gets the money from him... I'm good with that.

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 20, 2013 01:13 AM

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Janice,

If you never return the projector for sure Ebay will never give you any refund. More over to return this projector you CANNOT use the cheapest method but must be with tracking. This going to be your cost.

When the seller receives the projector (seen from the online tracking), Ebay will gives you a full refund taken from the seller account.

However, the seller does still have ammunition due to the fact that he listed it as "For parts or not working". No matter he said on the description that the projector powered on, but any item listed as "For parts or not working" has default conditions set by Ebay:

quote:
An item that does not function as intended and is not fully operational. This includes items that are defective in ways that render them difficult to use, items that require service or repair, or items missing essential components.

A month ago, I was a seller with similar situation (only I did not say ot powered up) and Ebay/paypal gave a favor to me.

Good luck!

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Winbert

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted June 20, 2013 10:10 AM

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I have tried working it out with the seller for over a week. I thought we had come to an agreement that he would refund half of what I paid him. But then he backed out...forcing me to open a case. This guy doesn't respond and refuses to negotiate. We are talking about almost $200...so I can't just let it go.

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 20, 2013 11:25 AM

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Janice, you will get a full refund (shipping include) if you send the projector to him. It will cost you around $45, but still it will be better than loosing $200.

Ebay does not care what is your reason to return the item as long as you have tracking numbers.

Do not worry with the condition that seller will not send you the refund after receiving the projector because the fact is when you open a case, Ebay (or paypal) immediately freezes $200 from seller's account. Once you provide Ebay with the tracking numbers and it shows item has been delivered, the $200 will be sent to your account.

As a seller I have had this experience that it was pain to get an item back for the reason that has been clearly stated in the description, but Ebay just did not care. It always gives favor to the buyer's side.

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Winbert

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted June 20, 2013 12:59 PM

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I am going to pack it up and send it back then.

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 22, 2013 05:40 PM

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Janice, I am not sure if you got my PM.

Anyway, if you are master in repairing, I have a Sankyo 800 Stereo in working condition. However I don't know why it is only running on 24 fps and a bit fast.

I know there are two trimmers that can be used to adjust the speed but due to my move this week I don't have time to look after it.

It won't be $200 not even $100, say your price and I will calculate the shipping to CA. Normalky it will be betwen $49 to $65.

However, I can only wait until this Monday as my cargo is leaving on that day.

PM me at winbert (at) hotmail (dot) com should you be interested.

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Winbert

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted June 22, 2013 07:51 PM

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I pm'd you Winbert.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010

posted June 22, 2013 09:59 PM

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You can do it Jan! [Eek!]

[Eek!]

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted June 23, 2013 05:51 PM

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Well...things did not go in my favor. Ebay sided with the seller. So much for buyer protection..end of story [Roll Eyes]

[Roll Eyes]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 25, 2013 05:34 PM

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Janice,
All is not lost. I had Ebay decide in the favor of the seller and they listed the reason as "Change of Mind" which was not covered. I filed a dispute against the judgement and then I called Ebay. I spoke to an Ebay rep who reread and listened to what I had to say. Then they reversed the decision. It took 15 minutes. The Ebay rep said the person handling my case will be re-taught as they made a mistake. I got all my $$ back.
Do you have a link to the original auction before you do anything else so I can see it?

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted June 25, 2013 06:48 PM

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Hi Alan,
Here's the listing http://www.ebay.com/itm/251273141006?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

They ruled in the seller's favor saying:

We've determined that the seller has described the item accurately. Unfortunately, eBay Buyer Protection only covers items received if there was something wrong with them.

Final decision:
A refund won't be issued for this case.

I guess the motor not running didn't qualify as something wrong [Mad]

[Mad]

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Akshay Nanjangud
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 637
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2011

posted June 25, 2013 09:53 PM

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I read the description Janice. Everyone is going to hate me for this but I think you are losing out on wordplay.

SELLER'S ARGUMENT: "Powers on" means some display lights came on, i.e., electrical power is on. Maybe even the lamp socket receives electrical power. It doesn't mean the motor works.

BUYER'S INTERPRETATION: "Powers on" means mechanical power from the motor is on.

I am not saying the seller is right though. This is a passing thought in my mind.

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Alan Rik
Film God

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From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 25, 2013 10:09 PM

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Hi Janice,
Akshay is correct. It says it powers on but it never says the motor is working. Uggh.
Sorry to say but I think Ebay's decision will be final in this case.
Hopefully one of our Projector Gurus can bring it back to life.
Good luck!

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Akshay Nanjangud
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 637
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2011

posted June 25, 2013 10:32 PM

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Janice may have a case if she asked him specifically about the motor in some correspondence.

I am keeping a close tab on Janice's repair jobs. Her successes have repeatedly put me to shame. Although not her fault, I am counting this as her first failure. Sorry Janice. This is 'Strike One!'. [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted June 26, 2013 01:25 AM

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I didn't have any intention of challenging the eBay ruling. It's not worth anymore of my time and energy. Live and learn....I've moved on. I have now experienced the "Buyer Protection" process and I just wanted to show the original listing for the curiosity seekers here [Smile]

[Smile]

I understand now that 'power on' can be a broad term...but I still think it was misleading and the attitude of this guy was especially indignant and rude. In the future I will ask specifically about the motor running.

Ashkay...I'm not sure what you mean by failure. What goes around comes around...this seller won't be selling much for long with his lack of customer service and poor communication skills. I still have the projector and there's always a chance I'll get it going again.

As Captain Jason Nesmith (Tim Allen) said in "Galaxy Quest"... "Never give up...Never surrender."

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Akshay Nanjangud
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 637
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2011

posted June 26, 2013 02:18 AM

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Janice, I was only kidding. Of course, this isn't your fault. I have learnt a lesson now: "Powered on" doesn't necessarily mean a running motor. Very sorry about the terrible luck. With your skills, this projector has a good chance of projecting film again.

Once again, I too feel the seller was in the wrong.

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013

posted June 27, 2013 10:46 AM

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Sorry to read about your trouble Janice, I was very surprised with EBay's decision, both they and Paypal always (or seem to) favour the customer. They know sellers can't really go elsewhere to sell their goods, at least not with the success of Ebay. Like you, I would have thought that the description 'Powers up' meant everything was OK, but that the seller was not familiar with all the ins and outs of projection. I hope by now that you have a good projector in your possession.

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Alan Rik
Film God

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From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 27, 2013 07:54 PM

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I remember an auction for a Eumig 924 where the seller said it "powered" on. He said it might need belts. So I asked him if he can tell me if the motor was running. He said he couldn't tell but...if it wasn't he would take the item back.
Well...the motor was dead. He was an honest seller and took the item back. Too bad your seller wasn't as nice. [Frown]

[Frown]

Who knows? Maybe once you get the projector running it will be the sweetest machine you ever had! Time to make Lemonade out of those lemons!

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