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Author Topic: film fungus
Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted September 26, 2006 01:39 PM      Profile for Del Phillipson   Email Del Phillipson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wondered if any of you out there could help. I dug out an old home made cine film of me and the wife when we were courting, unfortunately when I got the spool out, the film was loose on the reel. When I ran the film the first 50 feet was fine, but when I got to the next 100 feet it had black blobs all over the screen (it looked like black snow flakes) I was gutted and wondered if there waqs anything I could do to remedy this, any advise would be appreciated, Del.

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Joerg Polzfusz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 815
From: Berlin, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar System
Registered: Apr 2006


 - posted September 27, 2006 04:15 AM      Profile for Joerg Polzfusz   Author's Homepage   Email Joerg Polzfusz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,

this could be anything from dirt to fungus. (Film fungus is rumored to occur especially on Afga and Perutz material processed before 1980.)
I would try any of the standard film cleaners - at the end of film or with an unimportant scene.
If no DIY-method helps: several labs over a film-restauration/-cleaning which includes ultrasoniq cleaning, ... .

Jörg

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Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted September 27, 2006 04:02 PM      Profile for Del Phillipson   Email Del Phillipson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Jorg, it could be fungus, didn't know whether or not it might be a result of frost, It is on the underside of the film.

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Joerg Polzfusz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 815
From: Berlin, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar System
Registered: Apr 2006


 - posted September 29, 2006 08:23 AM      Profile for Joerg Polzfusz   Author's Homepage   Email Joerg Polzfusz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,

if it is fungus:
a) store that film separately from your other films
b) clean your projector/viewer with a cleaning-liquid that is suited for your equipment and that kills bacteria and fungus.

You should send the film to someone who could clarify whether it's dirt or fungus (or maybe some remnants from processing that hardened and turned black).

Jörg
P.S.: There might be more things to do to prevent the fungus from spreading.

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Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted October 02, 2006 10:09 AM      Profile for Del Phillipson   Email Del Phillipson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jorg, you've got me worried now, although the 2 fifty foot films that are affected are spooled together with another 50 foot sound film and this is totally unaffected. Del.

P.S. the sound film is the first one.

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Joerg Polzfusz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 815
From: Berlin, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar System
Registered: Apr 2006


 - posted October 02, 2006 11:10 AM      Profile for Joerg Polzfusz   Author's Homepage   Email Joerg Polzfusz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
http://www.filmshooting.com/scripts/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5285&highlight=film+fungus

If it is film-fungus, it'll try to spread like all other fungus. Hence cleaning the film-path, ... should be done before risking to infect other films. (Being paranoid in this case wouldn't hurt - better to waste some time than to ruin other films, isn't it?)
But I haven't seen/encountered any film-fungus myself, hence I can only repeat info found on the web. Maybe some other board-members can help?

Jörg

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Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted October 04, 2006 04:11 PM      Profile for Del Phillipson   Email Del Phillipson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joerg, I may have had some success, I cleaned the film with an optical cleaner and it removed whatever it was on the film, it was a long hard process and I'm now going to wait and see what the results are. First impressions are promising, I'll keep you informed. Del.

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Andy Oliver
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: Croydon, Surrey
Registered: Apr 2006


 - posted October 06, 2006 02:47 PM      Profile for Andy Oliver   Email Andy Oliver   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi, i can confirm emulsion fungus does affect agfa moviechrome film. All my 1982/3 images exposed on moviechrome 160 are totally unwatchable, cleaning the film makes no difference, moviechrome 40 is slightly better, but still plagued with fungus. I have also seen a large collection of home movies exposed around 1982-1984 on agfa and dixons super 8 stock, the collection too had suffered with fungus. Luckily i switched to kodachrome in late 1983, and those images are perfect, so too are ektachrome 160 images from the same era. BTW, going off topic, is it me, but i am sure my e160 images are sharper than the new 64t stock with less grain!!!

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 06, 2006 06:06 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
I used mainly Agfa Moviechrome 40 sound and silent and have no signs of fungus on any of my films. I have to say that I was led to believe that this sort of problem was caused by damp. It is also possible to get bugs that feed on the gelatin and these will also cause dark patches etc on the film.

Interesting item about the sharpness issue. I saw some tests when I worked in the R&D labs of Ilford Films which showed that the grainier a film the sharper it looked.

This is caused by the more sharp edges of the silver crystals giving a sharper look to the finished photographed image. The finer the grain the less sharp edges you have to help make edges look sharp. Its very difficult to expalin all this but its all due to what are called edge effects (enhancement). The bigger the grain the better the edge effects and vice versa. This is a visual effect but measured sharpness is a differnt story.

Black and white film tends to have a different grain structure and generally better edge effects over colour film. This is why Kodachrome was so sharp for a fine grain film becuause it really is layers of monochrome film until processed at which point the dyes are added.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted October 08, 2006 01:08 PM      Profile for Del Phillipson   Email Del Phillipson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
well, whatever it was has been removed from the films and the films relubricated. They are now stashed away from the rest of my films and we'll see in a month or two. I must admit that these films will at some point have been stored in the loft so damp could have had a major effect, strange though how it didn't effect the sound film that was also on the same reel. Del.

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Barry Johnson
Master Film Handler

Posts: 358
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted October 09, 2006 08:12 AM      Profile for Barry Johnson   Author's Homepage   Email Barry Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Slightly off the subject,but recently,I have been copying my seriously old favourite VHS tapes to DVD-even so called protected ones (there is a way and not using computers) and noticed that a white powdery mould had grown on the stored tape.Once fast forwarded,it all deisappeared.Strikes me that all polyester type substrates react in this way-film or film based things like recording tape.
It must pay to check ones archives from time to time to see if they have any unwanted moulds appear and run them through to get rid of this.

--------------------
Standard8 rules!!

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Hugo Onghena
Junior
Posts: 1
From: Antwerpen, Belgium
Registered: Jul 2014


 - posted July 09, 2014 06:50 AM      Profile for Hugo Onghena   Email Hugo Onghena   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I noticed those stains too. I have one film that is completely "unwatchable". Some are more or less affected.
Oddly enough, parts that were added in between, like titles, are not affected at all.
I had no succes with a film cleaner. Films are stored in a dry place. The Kodak's are OK. Wish I could contact a Chemist from Agfa, but sadly they were probably all retired with the firm.

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Marshall Crist
Master Film Handler

Posts: 300
From: San Pedro, CA USA
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted July 09, 2014 01:09 PM      Profile for Marshall Crist   Email Marshall Crist   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
About a year ago I got a silent print of Castle Films' THE CREATURE WALKS AMONG US and it had brown dots on it. Based on comments in a thread that was circulating around here at the time, it seemed like it might be due to faulty lab work. I recently got a Little Rascals print with the same dots and am concerned that it may be something more sinister. Any thoughts?

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted July 09, 2014 01:20 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a couple of 16mm prints with those brown dots on them. They haven't worsened over the years I've had them.

They are thought to be due to incomplete washing of the print during printing allowing droplets of fixer to remain.

They are also deemed to only show up in B&W prints, higher silver content prints.

They don't wash off, but as I said, they don't appear to worsen either.

There's been a lot of discussion of this condition on the 16mm forums.

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Marshall Crist
Master Film Handler

Posts: 300
From: San Pedro, CA USA
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted July 09, 2014 05:58 PM      Profile for Marshall Crist   Email Marshall Crist   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks. Pretty much what I remembered, and glad to have it confirmed.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4407
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted July 10, 2014 11:02 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Welcome on this forum, Hugo.

--------------------
Dominique

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