8mm Forum: Removing Filmguard

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Topic: Removing Filmguard

Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted August 11, 2018 04:57 AM

What is the best method to remove Filmguard from a print? Will it just wipe off, or perhaps will isopropyl alcohol help?

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Maurice

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Keith Wilson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 104
From: England
Registered: Jun 2015

posted August 11, 2018 05:59 AM

Maurice, be very care full when using isopropyl alcohol or any chemicals that evaporate quickly, as it cause's film shrinkage and warping

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted August 11, 2018 06:39 AM

Not to mention possibly taking off some sound stripe.

Maurice, have to ask why you need to remove it? Is there too much on the print?

If so, a few runs through a dry 100% cotton handkerchief should remove the excess. I've never had any ill effects from Filmguard except when too much has been applied.

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 11, 2018 07:25 AM

If a film print has too much cleaning chemical on it then the lesson learned here is the proper way to apply the chemical is through a slow-moving cleaner machine seconds before the film enters the projector gate

A soaked rag Between handcrank rewinds is not the way to apply the chemical

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted August 11, 2018 07:54 AM

Chip
If that's correct, I have doing it wrong forever, without any bad experiences so far [Cool]

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted August 11, 2018 08:38 AM

me as well, i did learn years ago not to over apply, if i feel too much is on i simply rewind again using a clean dry 10% cotton handkerchief, it works perfect and has done all my life in cine. 40 Years.
Obviously the ideal way is to use a proper cleaning machine add on to the projector, but there was no way i was paying some of the prices that were asked of these cleaning machines. Some of them were twice the price as a decent projector. [Wink]

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted August 11, 2018 09:10 AM

I use the same method as Tom and have done for around 25 years now with nothing but great results.

But Filmguard especially has to applied very sparingly. Certainly would never use a soaked rag Chip! [Smile]

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David Baker
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 233
From: Hamilton , Ohio
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 11, 2018 09:23 AM

Terry , Tom and Rob - I agree with you all and too have never had any ill effects for many years .

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Dave

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 11, 2018 10:16 AM

The film cleaner machines are easy to find if the price is right. The Kelmar unit for 35mm can easily be modified from 35mm down to 8/16. All you do is remove and swap some parts then reinstall them. Building a holder to your machine could take some trial and error. But once configured, they are the best way to do this.

What scares me with the rag is scratching of film. The cleaners work on the basis of motion. The projector pulls the film, the film moves a main guide roller, and worm gears rotate the cotton cleaning rolls. Everything moves with the film - so scratching is avoided.

If you can consider the application vs the cost, it is a wise decision to do so. The film cleaners can be expensive, like a machine or a film print. But for the principle of insurance, it can't be beat.

cg

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 11, 2018 10:55 AM

Like many others, I spray a small amount of FilmGuard on a cut piece of lint free cloth, fold that in half and apply it to both sides while turning rewinds at a slow speed. I replace the cloth when it looks necessary. This has done the job for years & years.

I use the Film-O-Clean for wet gate projection and also during CineSea when I'm given a film to project that hasn't been cleaned. However, I prefer to clean by hand because I can feel if there's any sprocket damage, burnt frames or bad splices.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted August 11, 2018 10:56 AM

I can definatly see the benefits Chip. 100%.
It's just a matter of cost more than anything. When using the basic handkerchief method, the thing to remember to avoid scratching are simple, always use a 100% hanky, (or similar).
Each time you re-apply the cleaner, (for me it tends to be a very small amount every 150/200ft) use a different part of the cloth,
at the end, rewind through another clean part of the cloth but no pressure, this takes off the excess perfectly.
A few second hand films have made the cloth unbelievably filthy, if this happens it gets second application right away, this usually does the trick, fortunately, its rare. [Wink]

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted August 11, 2018 10:58 AM

I am not asking how to apply Filmguard, but how to remove it from a film.

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Maurice

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 11, 2018 11:00 AM

Maurice,

Sorry to get off topic. If too much FilmGuard has been applied, I would use my same method for cleaning, only using a dry cloth wrapped around the film lightly, replaced every 100' or so.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted August 11, 2018 11:10 AM

Thanks, Doug.
So. Just a dry cloth?

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Maurice

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted August 11, 2018 11:13 AM

Well, like I also said Maurice.

But why? Too much on the print?

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 11, 2018 11:21 AM

Rob beat me to it by two hours!

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted August 11, 2018 11:23 AM

Maurice, if you just want to remove an excess of Filmguard, a piece of cloth will be enough but if you want to remove it completely, it will not work. I remember the message of a member who had sent a film to a lab to add a soundtrack. In this case, it was said that it takes about one year for the product to evaporate completely.

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Dominique

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 11, 2018 12:12 PM

Nobody got off topic what I was trying to say is when you apply film guard to the cotton rolls of the cleaner machine over time it is absorbed by the cotton rolls which avoids a print from being soaked.

And Doug, I will normally do film inspection first, then do a cleaning as a 2nd step. It’s never extra work- it is always for the love of film!

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted August 11, 2018 12:23 PM

“It’s never extra work- it is always for the love of film! “

However we clean our films, I think we all here agree on that Chip. [Smile]

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013

posted August 11, 2018 04:14 PM

Is it OK to use an old cotton t-shirt cut into pieces for applying and then removing excess of the Filmguard?
I have specific cloths bought in laboratories, in polyester, microfiber, rough, etc., but if it is necessary to change cloth often it is not appropriate to use those.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted August 11, 2018 06:33 PM

I use that, Luigi (pieces of cotton from t shirts or blankets). Some films are incredibly dirtyand sometimes to change the cloth quiete often.

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013

posted August 11, 2018 07:10 PM

Thanks, Dom. And you also know how much time must pass to be able to project the film after cleaning?

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted August 12, 2018 02:38 AM

You can project the film immediately after having removed the excess of Filmguard. As I reported it before, the only films that tend to hold some drops on some sections are optical super 8 (not other gauges). I have no Idea why but extra attention is needed for those films.

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Dominique

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