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Author Topic: Future of 9.5 filmstock
Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted October 17, 2018 05:41 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Difficult moments for the gauge. Both Ferrania and Kodak having failed to bring 35 unperfored reversal colour stock in reasonable time, Color City is not able to wait longer. The former manager is willing to help the Ciné Club 9.5 as much as he can but he asked us to take the reperforation machines back by the end of this year. Those are very heavy and take the room of about three ping pong tables. The Club is now trying to find a solution but it's not easy since it has a cost to move and store these machines. Everybody si aware if they are binned, that would almost mean the end of the 9.5 (there is another, musch smaller, reperforing machine but onnly from 16 mm, which is not viable and would, anyway be a kind of handicraft solution). As soon as I know more about this, I will post some updates. It has not been clear if Color City is stopping its activities by the end of 2018 (or a part of it or if they needed room) but in doubt I would advise (and that's the main reason why I'm posting this info about the situation before knowing more about it) those who still have 9.5 colour stock in their fridge to have it process by Color City (since the films were sold process paid) while it's still possible.

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
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From: Campobasso, Italy
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 - posted October 18, 2018 05:58 PM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Too bad for Kodak, on Ferrania we already had less hope... :|

I ask a question, Dom, to pass at the laboratory: the Fomapan R100 16mm single perf costs 27.68 EU (in the Foma shop) the 35mm costs 57.28 EUR. Could the laboratory buy these and cut them in 9.5mm? I imagine that from 35mm you can get at least 2 films 9.5 (3 I think not, because of the perforations), one 9,5mm from a 16mm film. And then, adding the cost of cutting and a small revenue. Can you get 35 euros? I don't know if it is a good price for a film b/w, but in times when a Super 8 Ekatachrome will cost € 49... Ok, Ekta is in color, but 9,5mm is more rare film, and the Fomapan mentioned above are 30 meters!
And if from 35mm Fomapan you can get THREE films 9.5mm would become really interesting.
Ok, you lose a lot of film, but to have 9.5mm... <3

And maybe the laboratory could offer a "cutting service", for a cheap price shipping cost excluded, for those who already have a film to "sacrifice".
Maybe there are users that would cut films already in their possession. For exemple, cut 16mm or 35mm films expired by not long time and refrigered, that still give a good result.
Bearing in mind that on ebay there are 16mm expired in the '80s, in the' 90s or in the '70s at little prices. I am one who would also do this. [Smile]
I have bought a Kodachrome 16mm expired in 1979 at 3 euros, developed in black and white, as it is now, it gave me interesting results... With a cutting service I would have gladly cut it in 9.5mm!

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Graham Sinden
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 - posted October 18, 2018 06:07 PM      Profile for Graham Sinden   Email Graham Sinden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think its the complete end for 9.5 as you say its possible to reperf 16mm to 9.5mm. Roy Salmons did it this way with Ektachrome 100d I believe so there are other machines out there to do it but its very expensive, (also there is the issue as to WHY you would want to do it as 16mm cameras and films are superior to 9.5).

But also Spain make 9.5 b/w film. Is this still going? and a member from Germany makes his own 9.5 films.

It will be hard though for 9.5 to get back to what it had a few years ago with the supply of camera films. We may have to say goodbye to it as a filming medium.

Graham S

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Dominique De Bast
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 - posted October 19, 2018 03:09 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Luigi, Color City doesn't want to handle black and white since it's forbiden to process it in France. The Club did not insist as there is still no lab to process 9.5 black and white film over 15mt (the Dutch lab cannot handle 30 mt lenghts).

Graham, reperforing 16 mm to 9.5 has been discussed but the price is certainly a problem. The advantage of reperforing from 35 mm uncut stock is that, as you know, get three strips of 9.5, which make it cheaper than 16 mm. That would be the best option to have Something viable. Other solutions would not bring something viable on a large scale. About black and white film, as I replied to Luigi, the trouble is to process the film. The Spanish lab that was contacted by the Spanish club process only negative film in 9.5 It seems that they are reluctant to make the invest of modifying their machine to be able to process reversal film as they say they have no demand for 9.5. It's a silly situation because people don't send them film to process because they don't process them and they don't start processing because they say they got no film [Roll Eyes] The Spanish club was told by the lab that reversal processing should be available later but they have keeping saying that since more than one year. I don't think iy's the end of 9.5 but it may be the end of an easy access to filmstock and process. The French club is looking for a solution, Nothing is lost so far but we will need luck.

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
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 - posted October 19, 2018 09:33 AM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dom, I understand the reluctance because in France doesn't develop b/w, however, since the Dutch laboratory does not elaborate 30mt but only 15mt, France (or Spain) could produce film of maximum 15 meters? For users of cameras that accept only 30 meters there would be only the inconvenience of applying 15 meters of film on a 30mt reel.
I do a similar thing with the Double Super 8: my Pathé only accepts 30 meters reels, I buy also a 10 meters of Fomapan R100 and I apply it (in the dark, but it's not difficult at all, just wrap) on 30mt reels. Everything's fine.
On the other hand, 15 meters was an existing 9.5mm measurement, Color City had it.

[ October 19, 2018, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Luigi Castellitto ]

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Dominique De Bast
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 - posted October 19, 2018 10:33 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Luigi, I wrote a long reply but it was lost 😠😠😠. Will reply again from my computer next week since I'm on the way to London to attend the 9.5 convention at Harpenden this Sunday.

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
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 - posted October 19, 2018 10:43 AM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh, bad!
No problem, my friend! See next week. [Smile]

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Luigi Castellitto
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 - posted October 23, 2018 04:27 PM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
About 9.5 film stock: on ebay there was an announcement with a 9.5 film that was not very old, an Orwo. It was sold, otherwise I wanted to take it, for use it, it would not be difficult to make it develop (it was in 9 meters reels).
There is a minimum of interest around 9.5mm film stock, even just for collection. [Smile]

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Dominique De Bast
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 - posted October 28, 2018 12:08 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Luigi, sorry for the delay. Smaller lenghts of black and white are available (or were available, I didn't check recently if the Spanish club is keeping on producing film that cannot be easily process) but I think that smaller lenghts are more difficult to handle. Color City, indeed had colour stock of 8,20 mt and 14 mt but they had customers for that, I don't know if there would be such a high demand in black and white. Color city could, since they still have the machines, reperfor black and white films but without the process work benefit, it may not be viable for the lab. Not only, you have the trouble to reperfor but keep in mind that Color City would not provide camera spools that would not come back (unlike for colour stock that is sent back for process) so it's extra work if you must use customers'own spools (all that in the dark…). Kodak has not replied, yet, to requests about future availability of Ektachrome on 35 mm sotck (preferabily unperfored to get three 9.5 stripes). A German provider can sell colour stock to the club but at an high price. Given that Kodak is not cheaper neither, this German company may be reconsider (due to the "emergency") but nothing decided about that, yet. I contacted a British lab that process 9.5 colour stock to see if it was possible to process also black and white film but the answer was no (I Wonder why but so it is) but I got from them the contacts of another lab (based in London) that process black and white 8 and 16 mm films. I got no reply to my e-mail and they didn't answer the phone so no solution at the moment.

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
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 - posted October 29, 2018 03:27 PM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the info, Dom, we hope well.
You who go for festivals, frequent clubs, you are in contact with the format... do you think that a handful of enthusiasts that shot in 9.5mm exist?

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Dominique De Bast
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 - posted October 29, 2018 05:08 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well Luigi, I have no idea of how many ninefivers shoot regularly or wish to do so. All I can say is that when Color City announced that the Velvia stock would no longer be available from Fuji, the existing stock was sold much faster than expected and that there has been a demand after it was completely sold out.

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
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 - posted October 30, 2018 09:37 AM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am optimistic, I want to believe that there are so many to have a market. It's true that Color City sold well, and in all lengths.

But on this forum, it's just you and me who would like to keep shooting in 9.5mm?
Users, go out! [Smile]

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Dominique De Bast
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 - posted October 30, 2018 10:33 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No later than yesterday, a new (French) member of the Ciné-club 9,5 sent me an e-mail to ask me where he could have process a colour film (found unexposed in an old charger) he recently shot (he knows the results may be awful). He also wants to buy black and white film (it seems that the Spanish club has some spools left) to use it in his camera...

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
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 - posted November 01, 2018 09:07 AM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great, new members new market. [Smile]
As I said, on ebay more buy expired 9.5mm, I don't know if they shot, I hope so!

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Pablo Suarez
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 - posted December 23, 2018 03:11 PM      Profile for Pablo Suarez   Email Pablo Suarez   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dominique,
where is the Spanish club you talk about? It would be great to meet them.
I have some 9.5 stock stored in the fridge that I bought from Graham Newnham a few years ago, and a 30m reel I bought on ebay (not very confident on this stock though). Do you know where could I get it developed?
Thanks!

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Dominique De Bast
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 - posted December 23, 2018 04:11 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Pablo. You can try this lab for 9.5 colour films (sadly they cannot process black and white in that gauge) : https://www.johnsalimphotographic.co.uk/motion.html At the time of writing, Color City in France can also process colour films but it's not clear if they will close down soon or not.
I have several e-mail adresses of Spanish ninefivers (I met them at the yearly festival in Calella close to Barcelona). Here is the official contact address from the French club (http://cine9.5mm.free.fr/es.htm) jmarre@arrakis.es. Should that address not work, I can give you other e-mails addresses via PM.

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Dominique

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Lee Mannering
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 - posted December 27, 2018 02:44 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Reflections..

I shot my final 9-5 film this year and with no new good colour stock available I guess that will be it. Roy's UK film was a problem for some of us from day one with the home made oversized spools jamming in cameras. I've also now found out after trying to scan the completed films on a 20K scanner the sprocket holes are at a angle meaning the scanner cant register the frame causing excessive vertical jumping. It is as we know a costly process shooting with film so whoever comes up with the goods will need to get it right as the French have done over the years.

At the moment I'm shooting Super 8 on a Leicina Special with excellent results but I miss the fun of filming 9-5 with the good French perforated stock which was also excellent.

9-5 has been saved a number of times over the years but with no fresh stock on the shelf I fear this may well be it but I hope not.

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Dominique De Bast
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 - posted December 27, 2018 04:03 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Lee, I'm sharing your concerns. Color City 's website is no longer available from abroad, which is certainly not good news. I wonder what the machines will become. However, there is a little hope. I was unofficially told about possible new 9,5 colour stock but so far nothing confirmed.

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Dominique

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Pablo Suarez
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 - posted January 11, 2019 05:01 PM      Profile for Pablo Suarez   Email Pablo Suarez   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Dominique,
Thanks a lot for the info. I didn't know about John Salim, but it looks great.
I will also try to get in touch with the Spanish 9,5 people. In case I have problems, I will drop you a line.
Thanks again!

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Dominique De Bast
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 - posted January 12, 2019 07:50 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Welcome, Pablo. Don't hesitate to ask if you need to.

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Dominique

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Dominique De Bast
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 - posted January 15, 2019 02:55 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As promised, some updates. First, for the reperforing machines : a delay has been won until the end of February since Color City has not yet passed on its premises. Still no real satisfaying solution found but at least the machines still exist. Regarding the colour stock. Some news from an Australian ninefiver who said he found some 35 mm stock and has to reperfor it. I Can only assume (since I got no details) that there is a machine there. Another source : Fuji Japan could provide some 35 mm reversal stock but I haven't any details, neither. Until there is a life, there's hope 😉

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
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 - posted February 05, 2019 07:39 PM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dom, some other news?
What a bad thing to be able to find film stock for ALL formats (also Double Super 8, and I believe that in the world there are more 9.5mm cameras than DS8.) and not for 9.5mm. [Frown]

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Dominique De Bast
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 - posted February 06, 2019 12:48 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Luigi, informations can vary from one day to another. Monsieur Colland told me at Argenteuil (at the Cine fair) that the German source didn't lead to anything but the day after he called the president of the 9.5 club to say he was trying another German source...The trouble is that it is possible to reperfor 9.5 film from 16 mm (or double 8/double super 8 of course) but that would mean that 9.5 would be more expensive than the other gauges. It is also possible to reperfor from perfored 35 mm film but then only two strips coule be made. To make something viable, 35 mm unperfored stock is looked for (to make three strips of 9.5). The good new, however is that the machines can stay a little bit longer in the premises of Color City. A solution to save them is still on the table (actually, I talked a lot about this problem and I mays have found the right personne but so far Nothing is done).

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
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 - posted February 12, 2019 07:56 PM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't remember because I didn't buy that length, you, Dom, remember how much they cost 30 meters of color from Color City? To see what could be a fair or maximum price...

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Dominique De Bast
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 - posted February 13, 2019 02:28 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think (quiete a while…) it was around €65 process paid.

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Dominique

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