8mm Forum: Ligonie OSM 950

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Topic: Ligonie OSM 950

Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013

posted December 15, 2017 05:09 AM

Have you seen this jewel?

https://www.ebay.it/itm/PROJECTEUR-LIGONIE-OSM-950-9-5-MM-SONORE-OPTIQUE-MAGNETIQUE-TRES-HAUT-DE-GAMME/302558604859?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Optical and magnetic audio in a sigle projector, and also the possibility of recording! A very rare mix on 9.5mm machine!
The auction started from 0 euro, I thought I could make an offer, but the offers reached stratospheric levels.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted December 15, 2017 09:23 AM

Not a lot more than a good Buckingham conversion which itself could be a better bet in the long run.

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Maurice

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013

posted December 17, 2017 10:17 AM

Maurice, a positive thing of this projector is the fact that is native in 9.5mm, but it's true that a converted Buckingham is excellent in the same way.
Anyway, auction closed at very high price!

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted December 17, 2017 12:10 PM

Very good machine indeed but some models have a system to hide the optical soundtrack, others no. And the optical sound films will have a reverse picture. Luckily, the projector usés Eiki lenses so you can put a reversing Lens.

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013

posted December 17, 2017 07:53 PM

Good info, Dom!

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted December 18, 2017 03:46 AM

Sold for 1810 EU. Unbelievable.
Dominique tells us that it doesn't even have its sound optics on the correct side to play optical prints. A great shame.
I wonder if the bidders, and the eventual buyer, knew of this anomaly.

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Maurice

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted December 18, 2017 04:51 AM

Yes very disappointing. You would have thought that, being a dedicated 9.5 projector, the designing/manufacturing team would have got the sound optics right.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted December 18, 2017 11:47 PM

The price reflects the fact that not many projectors like this surface often. It seems that Ligonie made a quality projector for the amateurs who wanted to sonorize their own films and that optical sound was a kind of extra. But that's only my guess. As I wrote before, you can easily put a reversing Lens on the Eiki lens that fits the Ligonie. It's of course far to be ideal but it's not bad. I presume you can also twist the film (like on other projectors) but that's certainly not something I would do myself or recommend.

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Dominique

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted December 19, 2017 02:30 AM

I have a 9.5mm conversion of an Eiki SNT-3 which I understand was done by a French firm. It can record onto magnetic as well play back. It also has conventional optical playback. All the optics are in the correct positions, so I can't see why Ligonie couldn't have done the same.

Grahame Newnham mentions that the model just sold is the MK1 model and was converted from the Swiss 16mm Bolex 521 designed by Microtechnica. It appears that this and the MK2 model may be subject to wear of their plastic worms. [Razz]

http://www.pathefilm.uk/95gear/95gearligonie.htm

[ December 19, 2017, 04:54 AM: Message edited by: Maurice Leakey ]

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Maurice

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted December 19, 2017 05:40 AM

I have no idea why Ligonie did that.

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Dominique

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted December 19, 2017 06:04 AM

Someone paid 1810 EU, and may, or hopefully not, have trouble with the worm gear.
I believe that Bolex might have some spares available. But have you seen their prices for spares?

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Maurice

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013

posted December 21, 2017 08:48 PM

Dom, would you remember me how where are located magnetic and optical sound on 9.5mm films?
You already had informed me, but I forget because I don't use the two formats. [Smile]

Thanks.

P.S. And also where the optical reader is mistakenly placed on this Ligonie.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted December 21, 2017 11:12 PM

Luigi, when you put the spool on the feeding arm, the optical soundtrack is on the side that is close to you. The magnetic soundtrack is on the oposite side on more recent projectors and on the same side as the optical track on the oldest ones. Heurtier made (magnetic) soundheads for right or left tracks and Ligonie converted the Elmo ST 1200 projector to 9.5 with the possibility of reading both sides (someone told me that it happened after he had suggested to André Ligonie to introduce stereo on 9.5).

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013

posted December 22, 2017 07:51 PM

Ah, so, this projector have the sound optics on the opposite side to yous when you put the spool on the feeding arm?
But it's a serious thing! I think it's a fabric mistake, and at the beginning they did not think about the possibility of reversing the film and using a lens to do it!

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted December 29, 2017 06:00 AM

This is the lens I was refering to :

It is mounted on a Buckingham but you cas easily put it on the Ligonie :

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013

posted December 31, 2017 09:28 AM

Ah, Ok, Dom, I remember this lens.

Buckingham 9.5mm is a dream projector!

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted January 29, 2018 05:44 PM

I got an explanation, given by a French ninefiver met at Argenteuil (the importance of the conventions...) about the reverse image. When Heurtier stopped the manufacturing of the sound blocks, Ligonie had to find a solution. An engineer started to convert the 16 mm Italian projector but sadly he died (from a fulgurant cancer) before he could finish the conversion at 100 %. That mat explain why some models have no moving piece to hide the optical soundtrack (it mauvais have been added later but that's just a guess). It seems that when the engineer died, André Ligonie itself was not in good health so the conditions were not optimal. Should anyone have more informations...

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013

posted February 07, 2018 04:13 PM

Interesting, Dom. There had to be something "incomplete" behind the production of this projector.
We hope to find other about it.

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Mike Shaw
Junior
Posts: 26
From: Canberra, Australia
Registered: Jan 2015

posted February 08, 2018 05:49 PM

These Italian made projectors OSM950 are actually the same machine made for Bolex being the model 521.16mm..Had one in for repair and although look good in appearance there not a good machine to work on as they have a similar nylon wormgear like the later B&H machines and very difficult to get,I had to get some made....worked out O.K in the end.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted February 11, 2018 11:04 AM

Mike, so far, my projector runs perfectly. I'm aware of the weak gear but was told it was not difficult to find another one but since I have until now not had the need the look for a replacement one I don't know if they are more common in Europe than in your part of the world.

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Dominique

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 04, 2018 06:13 PM

Two days ago, I wanted to project some films but after a few seconds, the mecanism stopped, not the fan and the lamp so I thought it was a belt problem. I opened the projector for the first time (there are several screws…) and couldn't see any broken or loosen belt. However, I noticed that 4 fuses were oxidised. Of course, that happened at night so I had to wait for the following day before trying to find new ones with the hope it would fix the problem. Luckily, the electrician had the same models. He checked the four fuses I showed him and one was no longer working. Of course, I replaced the four ones after having cleaned the holders in the projector. My finger crossed, I tryied but it didn't change anything. I insisted, moved a lillte bit the four fuses and...bingo. Projector is now running without problem (I projected several films). Costed me €1,20. If that "experience" can help someone else...

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Dominique

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 10, 2019 06:07 AM

An OSM 9,5 on sale on EBay :

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/SUPERBE-PROJECTEUR-LIGONIE-OSM-950-9-5-MM-TRES-HAUT-DE-GAMME-TBE/303354757859?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26mei d%3D392c598ea46246068d1e58085f47d08b%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D303354757859%26itm%3D303354757859%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_ trkparms=pageci%3Ab4a29cf6-0580-11ea-bf67-74dbd180262d%7Cparentrq%3A610a448e16e0a8619031ed07fff8acae%7Ciid%3A1&shqty=1&isGTR=1#shId

It's a silent version.

[ November 12, 2019, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: Dominique De Bast ]

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Dominique

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