8mm Forum: BFCC, Someone getting the goodies?

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Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on July 23, 2004, 11:45 AM:

I'm hoping i am wrong on this but, as i understand it a VERY reliable source has informed me that Dealers who visit this and other conventions,who don't actually have stalls, are being allowd in BEFORE opening time and are allowed to make purcahses of many good films from many dealers therefore denying the paying punters.Us. [Mad]

I must say with a 4 hour car trip each way, (and an 8hour plus flight for some) this really is a little bit of a kick in our teeth. I'm not saying this stops us getting bargins but clearly other dealers (not selling) in question are obviously getting the cream. Why is this allowed to happen? [Frown]

Everyone should wait outside until the opening time.
Apart from that that the dealers who are selling are either, "not bothered because cash crosses hands" or
" maybe looking after there own". Call this controversal but i call it unfair to the collectors who make the journey, maybe we should just stick to the sales lists and have our own film get together.
Your views please and any dealers who read this your response would be appreciated.
Ive said this before and i'll say it again, "All main super 8 dealers should attend this where possible and keep us,the customers,happy. The more stands, the longer people will stay and keep the DVD element down. One day when 8mm is in its closing days events like this will be appreciated by ALL dealers.
Anyway, that said i think this sucks and is not on.

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on July 23, 2004, 12:30 PM:

Tom

I have heard a similar story of a dealer who was approached by another "part-time" dealer who wanted to buy all of his discounted "specials". This left the dealer with a real problem when regular punters were disappointed.

It is a difficult thing to police really but I agree that with all the effors people make to go to the BFCC it is not a situation to be encouraged.

Tony

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on July 23, 2004, 01:33 PM:

Thats very true Tony, what i would suggest is that if the organisers can, it should be stipulated that no one is allowed to make purchases before the openong time. Cant see that being a problem.
Apart from that any seen browsing before hand should be asked to leave the hall. I have enjoyed the BFCC'x ive been to and it would be a shame for us to make the decision not to repeat that knowing when i get in after paying me dosh that quite afew good films have already gone. A bit like some of lists, we pay a fiver a year to get them then many of the good titles are sold on line to people who dont have to pay to get the lists. Maybe the dealers should send the lists out a week before that e mail list's, again am i being unrealistic? Let me know [Wink]

Posted by Colin Preston (Member # 68) on July 23, 2004, 05:13 PM:

Hi Tom
I agree with your main point. If that is indeed what is happening, then it's a sure discrace.

With regard to your e-mail list point. I get my e-mail list between 6 and 7 pm on a friday from Derann. I then get the hard copy in the post on the Saturday morning. Even though I get my e-mail list on the friday night, there is still nothing I can do until monday morning and I think that Derann do this very fairly. It gives everyone a fair crack.
I have read that people on the Forum sometimes get there hard copy late, but mine always comes like clockwork. I know, that if I get the e-mail on the Friday night, then the hard copy will on my doormat the following morning.

In all fairness to Duncan and the guys there, I don't personally see what else they can do. [Roll Eyes]

Col

Posted by Colin Preston (Member # 68) on July 23, 2004, 05:14 PM:

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on July 23, 2004, 10:29 PM:

I sympathize with this frustration. It seems to be common with all types of trade show programs. I live here in the USA and have experienced the same
frustration.

The 'Syracuse' Cinefest Dealers room,(which is held in Syracuse, NY during the first week in March, is similar to what you are experiencing over at the BFCC.
Dealers sell to dealers; or dealers have first crack at the cream, which is unfair.

The film programs held over four days are wonderful.

Although their are about two dealers that have recognized my particular interests, and have always try to sell to me before selling to alternate dealers.

I guess that some dealers always feel the need to make their money back early on the tables that they lease, and perhaps that is why they cave into the dealers first?

I find this very cold.

Aside from collecting film, I also love Lionel Electric Toy Trains. The earlier prewar and especially postwar items are the most popular, and have been the benchmark in the hobby.

Within this, there are many local and national shows that will permit the public to enter and browse as the dealers are setting up at an earlybird entrance fee.

This entitles collectors to a head start, before dealers peruse the rare and exceptional collectibles.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on July 24, 2004, 06:02 AM:

Colin, i do agree with you on the e mail side, im sure the boys at Derann do there best, besides, if we have pc's we should use them to our advantage as does buisness. Back to my main point, not heard back from any dealers on this one, and to add salt into the rooms, keep your eyes peeled at the next Blackpool and BFCC and you'll even see some dealers helping the un-named Gent/Gents carry the films to his/There cars because there are so many they need help. Cynical/sarcastic? yes and without apology,
Right you dealers, how about letting us all in early to browse and not buy? Beeter still, let EVERYONE wait outside, line up and once the entrance fee is paid let it be one faor and all for one. [Razz]

Posted by Colin Auty (Member # 231) on July 24, 2004, 05:15 PM:

Shame,
Seems a bit of a car boot situation , don't you just hate it
when you're setting up & they're (dealers)rumaging through
your stuff.I've first hand experience of this at the Blackpool
Convention last year!

Regards Colin

Posted by Tom Mc Kenzie (Member # 241) on July 25, 2004, 04:13 AM:

I believe this situation has been going on for a good number of years at all the super 8 conventions. It is not uncommon to see the same film at two dealers stands on the same day at different prices of course/ When you consider how far collectors travel to these conventions its is simply not fair.

I remember the dealers rooms at the Blackpool conventions 10 years ago being restricted to only dealers who had tables.

All the others were only allowed in at 9.30. In the last couple of years anybody could wander in whilst the tables were being set up before the convention started and browse if not buy.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on July 25, 2004, 12:46 PM:

I see what your saying there, but this appears to be different. This is dealers who dont actually have stall anymore who are allowed in BEFORE opening time and, with the blessing of the attending dealers, are allowing tp buy up some of the cream of the films to be sold to them. While is happening we are queing up outside while they slip out the side door to put the goodies into there cars,(with help) [Mad]

I have absolutly no problem with these people buying, but im saying that NO ONE should be allowd in before time to make purchases, if thats the case then drop the entrance fee altegether for everyone, or alternativly, simply do what the boot sale i attend in Plymouth does, anyone seen selling before the official 8am start is asked to pack up there stall and leave, and its done under the supervision of one of the official organisers and bloody good thing to, it stops the scavenging that use to go on, even the public are kept out allowing us to set up un-hindered.Still not had any dealers on about this yet,

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on July 25, 2004, 01:05 PM:

Tom, I misunderstood your point but now understand that you are saying that you have heard that dealers who don't have stalls are allowed in to the venue to start buying before the public are. If that is the case I agree that that isn't right and would welcome comments from John or Keith to verify whether or not that is the case.

If it is a case of dealers who are setting up their own stalls doing business with fellow stall holders I think that is the nature of the game and there's not much that can be done about that.

Mike

Posted by Tom Mc Kenzie (Member # 241) on July 25, 2004, 04:27 PM:

Hi Tom

I misunderstood what you were saying in your first email.

Surely, this can not be right. I know dealers off load and sell films to each other all the time. What is the point of having conventions if as you say the best discounted films are sold before the customers even get a chance to buy only to be regurgitated on another dealers mailing list teh next month.

If what you have heard is true it is totally outrageous and should be stopped by those organising the conventions.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on July 26, 2004, 02:09 AM:

Keith and I are certainly not aware of anyone coming in early and dealing when they haven't got a stall. We have had to eject people in the past before opening time (one a dealer without a stall too I believe) but we didn't have any idea this was a common occurence.

Please email me privately with details of what you know has been going on and we'll deal with it.

By the way, Keith's PC is dead again so it's going away for repair. So no more posts from Keith for a short while. Shame.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on July 26, 2004, 03:31 PM:

Yes Guys I have heard the same story. Also it takes take much working out when you look at some of those dealers that deal on ebay. They suddenly have more titles on sale after the likes of the BFCC and Blackpool conventions.

Like you guys I dont think anything should be sold untill the doors officially open and only dealers with stalls should be allowed in prior to the opening.

Kev.

Posted by Ian John (Member # 26) on July 26, 2004, 07:57 PM:

I went to a one day convention this year, and befor I went, the litriture advertising the convention said: If you plan to attend the convention, you are NOT allowed to sell films/equipment from the boot of your car in the car park, and anyone found doing this will be barred from attending future conventions.

In my mind, this is a load of bull. When I spend the day travelling up to a convention and meet with other film collectors in the hobby who also park in the carpark, if they or myself have a few films we can sell/swap each other, and have a yap about interest etc, where's the problem ?

When organisers book out a room at a venue, they pay for the hire of that room, and at £40 each or more charged to the dealers for their tables, that more than covers the room rental, but they are not charged for the carpark outside the venue which is there for the use of members of the public who attend any function going on at the venue, even people who work for the hotel/venue as staff use the same carpark.

The leaflet I read prior to the one day convention I attended went on to say: Dealers have to pay for selling there films on a reconised table.

What are some of these organisers frightened of ? After all, they are their to make money, it's a buisness, otherwise they would'nt be there.

If a few lads sell each other a couple of films in the carpark from their car, while they are chatting, that's nothing to do with the organisers of the convention, its none of their business, they don't own or rent the carpark, I think they are just playing Big Brother, and just becuase I bought or sold a film in the carpark it don't mean I'm not going to send money in the dealers room, or the dealers are going to loose money becuase someone bought or sold a film in the carpark, they need to get a life and grow up.

Prehaps some of us collectors need to hold a Film Carbooty in a feild somewhere, with free entry for punters (as with a normal carbooty) and lets all have a ruddy good day out where there is a bit of freedom.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on July 27, 2004, 03:05 AM:

Ian, I don't think anyone is going to mind if the odd film gets sold from collector to collector in the car park. What was happening was dealers were dealing in the car park rather than taking a table. Whilst Derann are in business, Tadley and the BFCC are not.

I can't comment on the costs of running Big Screen Time at Tadley but don't be under any illusions that the BFCC is there to make a profit any longer. We keep it going by the skin of our teeth mainly to promote the hobby. This is only possible with the support of the Ealing Town Hall, the dealers taking tables and the collectors attending. Anyone attending the BFCC and dealing but not taking a table is not exaclty helping the hobby. Quite the opposite I'd say, they're threatening it.

And whilst Derann are in business where would the hobby be without them? It is to our benefit they are profitable and anyone who threatens their profits by dealing from a car park is probably more to our detriment in the long run than to Derann.

The BFCC is there for collectors (and that includes me) to get together twice yearly, have a look at what is on offer from those dealers still remaining, be entertained (hopefully) in the cinema and generally just enjoy a day devoted to the hobby. It is not a business - it is run by enthusiasts for enthusiasts.

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on July 27, 2004, 11:05 AM:

Nicely put John,

Although a novice at the ways of the BFCC I enjoyed it not so much for handing over my inheritance to Grandpa Ian but more for the occassion itself. The opportunity to chat cine and see super 8 on a flippin big screen. A bit like trying to understand how Bees fly sort of thing. Sure it is nice to browse and dream of a second hand spiderman in mint condition becoming available and hunting the odd new release.

The time and energy that you chaps put in is to be applauded whether or not a profit was to be made from the event it still would not repay the dedication shown.

Looking forward to October

Tony

(p.s. I am the blue cortina with the paste table in the car park at the rear [Wink]

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on July 27, 2004, 03:34 PM:

Well said Tony! I enjoyed my first BFCC tremendously, so much so that I may be back in October! I did not buy any films there, but it was great fun browsing the dealers tables, and the best part of all was meeting collectors like you, and of course John and Keith put on a really awesome film show.

Posted by Barry Attwood (Member # 100) on July 27, 2004, 03:51 PM:

I dealt at Ealing & Blackpool for many years before personal constraints stopped me from dealing at these events now, but I still go to both the BFCC events each year, and of course Blackpool, and I have never attempted to get in before anyone else, and I can be seen to queue each time with the rest of the collectors. If I find what I think is a bargain afterwards, then that is my good fortune, but I have never been tempted to try and gazump any other collector just for the sake of a possible couple of films. I did in the past at one of the BFCC's a few years back have to complain to Keith about a very annoying individiual who thought he was "IT" just because he ran a 'Film Fair' in London, which he thought gave him the right to just waltz into any event he wanted, but that was an isolated incident, and many years ago now. I do hope that there are no dealers sneaking in and doing the dirty on collectors, as it puts us honest dealers to shame.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on July 28, 2004, 01:40 AM:

You're all too nice! Who wants a cuddle?

P.S. I'll be in the white souped-up Capri next to Tony Milman in the car park.

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on July 28, 2004, 02:40 AM:

John

We are not that nice! [Mad]

Posted by Ian O'Reilly (Member # 76) on July 28, 2004, 07:25 AM:

Price of films may have to go up in October, I just blew the clutch up on the GT40 at Le-Mans [Confused]

PS. I'm the push bike parked next to tony in the car park. [Big Grin]

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on July 28, 2004, 10:02 AM:

Why not just hold the next convention at a Drive-In? No need to load into the Town Hall. Leave the goodies in the boot and the dealing can continue while the films are shown on the big screen.

Doug

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on July 28, 2004, 04:10 PM:

Mines the CBR holding up one end of Tony's paste table!!! [Wink]

Kev

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