8mm Forum: Elmo ST1200

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Posted by Colin Robert Hunt (Member # 433) on September 07, 2005, 02:02 PM:

Just after some info on the Elmo's again. The ST1200 mag & Optical in the greeny colour paint. I think the very first ones to come out. Are they worth buying and how do they rate against the ST1200HD's apart from the twin track facility. Kevin or Tom can you give some info on these models. Many thanks again.

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on September 07, 2005, 03:43 PM:

I can't tell you about the machine on a technical/design level, but I can tell you that I bought one on Ebay about two years ago....and after I put new belts on it, it was a great machine. Sharp, bright, steady picture.....very crisp mono sound...good reliable threading. I don't know about the engineering of it, but ,as far as putting a picture on the screen and sound in hall, it is as good or better than the 1200hd's I have. AND IT WAS CHEAP ON EBAY.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on September 07, 2005, 04:15 PM:

Hi Colin, i've not owned the early 1200 before but i do know if you get one thats well looked after they are very good machines. Many of the internals are different to that of the HD and D which is why when i do my magazine bits i always make sure the readers are aware i'm talking about the 1200D/HD. i understand the drive belts are a different set up altogether and not interchangable.
Also i'm not sure if im right on this but i believe the 1200 is a single track projector and not twin.

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on September 07, 2005, 07:49 PM:

From what I've learned, the greatest differences are between the 1200 and 1200D models (whereas those between the 1200D and 1200HD models are minor design changes). Can't comment on the performance or reliability of the plain-vanilla 1200, but I can say that I despise its greenish color. [Roll Eyes]

The 1200HD is the only model with twin-track capability, also offering the means of stereo playback (not recording) via its monitor outputs.
I think the changes were mainly made in the film path... concerning the way the loops are formed, the sound drum, and the roller or rollers between the sound drum and the lower sprocket wheel... I fully expect Kevin F. to hop in and fill us in on all the little details soon, though. [Big Grin]

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on September 08, 2005, 07:13 AM:

Now now, Jan.

You are right. Most of the changes happened between the 1200 & 1200D. And these were mainly internal changes to do with the motor, gear layout and clutch system. When the HD was released the main changes were electrical due to introduction of the twin track. This resulted in switch layout changes and new main circuit board. Yes rollers etc were changed to help cut down wow etc but some of those changes did in fact happen during the early life of the HD.
One very important change which took place was the change from metal to plastic rollers in the top sprocket guide.
The metal rollers get gunged up and consequently stop turning. The film then wears flats on these 2 rollers which leads to serious film scratching on the base of the film down both sides.
The plastic rollers dont suffer from this problem.
If anyone has an ST with metal rollers then I would advise them to remove the rollers and clean the inside of the rollers and the screw/shaft which hold the rollers in place. Do this regularly. If you can get hold of some plastic rollers then do so and get rid of the metal ones. There are rollers in circulation for these machines and some of the local Elmo agents can still supply them. If you do have flats on the metal rollers then you really should change them if possible because the flats will also stop them turning beacuse the film will then want to run across these flats.

Anyway sorry to steal Jan's show but I thought the bit about the rollers was important.
Jan the floors yours again [Razz]

Kev

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on September 08, 2005, 11:44 AM:

well done K.
Yep, take off the back cover and yopu will note the motor, belts and clutch are the main mechanicak differences, in the film path you dont get the two lower rollers which on the HD introduced as a n improvement.
I must try and get the 1200 specs myself sometime.
All in all, the 1200 is to my knowledge a very good work horse. If you have films utilising the balance stripe for sound then its no good for you.

Posted by Colin Robert Hunt (Member # 433) on September 08, 2005, 01:27 PM:

Thanks everyone on the info. I have seen these turn up at the conventions and sometimes in the free ad papers. Was not sure if they were OK and worth buying. You mentioned the belts are different. I presume that you can still get replacements. Also does this model have those rubber drive wheels the same as the D and HD models?

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on September 08, 2005, 02:56 PM:

As the parts are virtually all different i'm not sure on availibility. Belts are always availible somewhere or something can be made to fit.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on September 08, 2005, 03:19 PM:

Kev, if the metal rollers are such a problem on the ST1200, how come the GS1200 has all metal rollers and not plastic ones. I have noticed that my GS1200 metal rollers stop spinning very quickly, even after cleaning the pin and inside diameter of the rollers. Also the version 1 had a black plastic roller at the film channel input, later to be replaced by a metal roller in version 3. So what gives here? Did Elmo decide metal rollers were better than plastic? I would have thought that plastic rollers would be the way to go, since they are self lubricating and have a very low coefficient of friction. Now that I think about it though, this whole buisness of the spinning roller is quite complicated. You want a slippery material for the roller so that it spins easily on the pin and is self lubricating. But if the roller material(or film) is too slippery then the film will just skid across it and the roller will not spin. Sounds like the best solution is a metal roller with a teflon or Delrin plastic insert for the pin bearing internal surface. That way you have a high friction coefficient on the film bearing surface (to aid spinning) and a low friction coefficient on the pin bearing surface.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on September 08, 2005, 05:19 PM:

Paul, this is ONLY the metal rollers in the top sprocket guide. On the HD they changed the metal rollers to the same as the one in the GS1200 top sprocket. Shame they didnt retain the 2 roller design of the HD for that guide.
I know exactly what you mean about the other metal rollers in the GS, the ones up from the second sprocket to the take-up spool.
On my own machine and others I have worked on I have found that I get no problems by removing each roller and then cleaning all signs of grease off the screw/shaft and inside the roller itself. I then put the rollers back "Dry" I dont use any grease or oil at all. This seems to work quite well.
I think the grease and oil in those rollers is enough to resist the motion of the film from turning them especially when they get dirt/oxide etc mixed with the oil/grease. Give it a go, run them dry and see if that helps.

Kev.

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on September 08, 2005, 08:49 PM:

Kevin,

just wondering what the "Now now, Jan" was about? I hope I didn't say anything that bothered you in any way. [Eek!]

Anyway it was never about putting a show on, so no need to apologize for stealing it from me. I wanted you to have the floor because, like so many on the forum, I respect and admire your detailed knowledge of all things Elmo. [Smile]

(And I'm happy to add that the top sprocket rollers on my machine are the plastic kind... hooray!)

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on September 09, 2005, 03:57 AM:

Jan, No worries at all. I thought that last comment of yours had a touch of sarcasm to it especially with the big grinning smilie at the end. It didnt bother me at all and in fact I found it very amusing. Sounds like you didnt mean it to come across like that at all.
To me that's what this site is all about, being helpful to each other and all in good spirit. [Big Grin]

So no worries at all on that score. It takes more than that to bother me. [Wink]

Yes thats great news that you have the plastic rollers. I have seen some of the metal ones in the top sprocket guide that have been so worn that film should never be put through the machine...but people still do [Frown]

If I ever see any new scratches on the screen I will stop my machine straight away and investigate but some people I dont think are as fastidious as that. On the ST1200/D/HD thats about the only place for concern prior to the gate so you should be ok with the plastic rollers.
I would still check from time to time that they turn freely and make sure they are clean.

Kev.

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on September 09, 2005, 06:49 PM:

Will do. Thanks Kev, as always [Smile]

Posted by Colin Robert Hunt (Member # 433) on September 12, 2005, 02:39 PM:

Thanks Kevin and tom on your help on the ST1200. Must be coincedence that I have managed to buy one at a good price. Very strange after starting this topic that the Elmo should appear in the local ads. Anyway it seems ok and at least it's got optical so I can run this copy of Ben Hur thats being sitting on the shelve for a couple of years.And I hope everything is working I tried to check everthing was
OK.

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