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Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on July 14, 2006, 10:18 PM:
Last night we watched the DVD's of 'The Jolson Story' and 'Jolson Sing's Again'.
The whole time I was watching these movies, I kept thinking how great the editing of the Columbia 400ft S8 digests were, because they really captured the essence of both of these great films. Not only that, the print quality of the S8 Columbia prints of the Jolson films was simply stunning. As great as the DVD quality is, I thought that there were many scenes where the S8 colour rendition was actually much better, particularly on the 'Jolson Sings Again' print, where the S8 colours are beautifully rich with superb contrast, and the print is needle sharp. So I would have to vote both these films as one of the best ever S8 digests.
Whether you like it best on DVD or S8, both mediums have stunning quality renditions of these films, and Larry Parks is superb in his miming of Jolson, getting a well desrved Oscar nomination. Unfortunately, right after the Jolson films, Larry was a victim of Senator McCarthy's 'Un-American activities' witch hunt and he was blacklisted from Hollywood movies (thanks to information generously supplied to the FBI by Ronald Reagan), essentially ending his career at its peak. Very sad.
Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on July 15, 2006, 05:15 AM:
Posted by Trevor Adams (Member # 42) on July 15, 2006, 05:20 AM:
I rather liked Duck Soup..... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on July 15, 2006, 05:22 AM:
Hi, Paul.
From a totally different genre, I think the Universal 8 cut-down of Spielberg's "Duel" is a classic.
To be fair, there isn't that much story to contain, but the 400ft version manages to keep many of the main scenes and succeeds in building the tension of the feature in it's short running time.
Also, as a Spielberg fan, I have to mention the 400ft version of "Raiders of the Lost Ark". I know this title has come up before when we've discussed abridged versions and that many people do not rate the editing job, but I have to defend it as one of my most screened extracts.
Not only do I think that the editor manages to keep most of the best action sequences, but even pulls off some very elaborate editing within sequences; the truck chase, for example is halved in length but is cut so well, with smooth mixes in the music, etc. that if you didn't know the film, you could hardly tell. I find it amazing that this much effort was put into Marketings last release, especially given the perceived state of the 8mm market at that time.
Sadly, again from previous threads on this, I believe the prints range from good quality (I've owned 3 and never seen a bad 'un) to very poor (soft and green tinged). Shame.
Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on July 15, 2006, 05:38 AM:
I too have the 400ft digest of Raiders and do agree that it is really well done. The colour on mine is extemely good but I would say that the image is a tad soft. What amazed me is that it has a superb stereo soundtrack. I dont know who did the sound but the box eveen has a proper stereo sticker on the front.
The editing is very slick and smooth and you get a really nice flowing story still.
Better be careful that we dont go overboard and end up doing reviews of our digests. If this thread does go that way then I might move it to the review section
Kev.
Posted by Barry Attwood (Member # 100) on July 15, 2006, 05:43 AM:
The "Ben Hur" 400' digest has to be up there with the best, as it conveys this very long movie's storyline into 17 minutes, and it also includes moments from the epic chariot race to boot, and if you can find the Cineavision Scope print, then you've got the best of both worlds.
Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on July 15, 2006, 06:06 AM:
jaws-1x200ft and buck rodges-1x200ft are edited prefectly.andy.
Posted by Craig Hamilton (Member # 258) on July 15, 2006, 06:28 AM:
Jaws 200ft digest. Best ever.
Craig
Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on July 15, 2006, 06:38 AM:
Patton and North By Northwest come to mind - Shorty
Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on July 15, 2006, 08:14 AM:
Gosh... I'm going to have to start hunting down these digests. You guys make them sound so much fun to watch - and I normally prefer full-length features! I guess it's because I like things to build up slowly (on one hand) and action sequences to fully play out (on the other hand) so when both are cut short, however expertly, I tend to feel that stuff is just happening much too fast and the movie's over before it's really started. At least that's how I used to feel with many digests. But I'm really reconsidering picking some up now...
...which reminds me, one of the best German digest releases ever has to be YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN (400ft) by Piccolo-Film. Many of the film's best scenes are in there and it nicely condenses the story of the monster's animation all the way to the end where Frankenstein and the creature trade their identities. And the entire sequence with the monster visiting the blind man (wonderfully played by Gene Hackman who's barely recognizable) is there, with nothing missing. Simply superb Excellent sharpness and contrast as well, although I always thought that my copy was just a little on the dark side (could just be my memory though).
If anyone of you ever picks this up, I'm sure it's worth re-recording into English.
Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on July 15, 2006, 09:03 AM:
Jan, you raise a good point about some Piccolo edits.
Take "Omen II".
The Ken "400ft" version is a short pan & scan with only little sense of the overall story and zero atmosphere, but the German Piccolo version, being only a few minutes longer is a fabulous widescreen version with a great story flow and retains all the menacing atmosphere of the original feature.
Like chalk and cheese
I spent a very happy few hours once re-dubbing my German version into English to produce one of my favourite digest reels.
Sadly, the bloody thing turned RED ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
!
Posted by Eberhard Nuffer (Member # 410) on July 15, 2006, 04:26 PM:
I'm not sure if Piccolo took this over from Columbia or if they made their own digest, but the Piccolo's 400-footer of "Cat Ballou" is one of the best editing jobs I have seen until now. Moreover, it is printed on Agfa stock, and the colours are holding up well...
Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on July 16, 2006, 10:54 AM:
A good thread Paul and good to see people on here really know what they're talking about.
'Jaws' is the best 200ft I know of. 'Buck Rogers' probably comes in second but I think it was a genuine promo created by Universal and not actually edited by the Universal 8 editors.
The best 400ft selected scenes/cut down/digest in my opinion is 'Dirty Mary Crazy Larry'. Very repeatable and encapsulates the film perfectly. Probably better than the full length feature in fact. And it comes in the wonderful Ken clamshell plastic case.
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 16, 2006, 01:30 PM:
Aw C'mon guys! I have seen most of those digests, and I don't think they hold a candle to the "ALIEN" digest! This is film with a very slow nice pace, and so to edit it down to 18 minutes, it's easy to keep the story intact. One of the things I liked about the edit is that as the story builds, the editing becomes quicker, actually giving it an incredible pacing. Whoever did the editing, I think they might have been a professional editor.
By the way, the CE3K digest is pretty good.
Posted by Mal Brake (Member # 14) on July 16, 2006, 03:11 PM:
The 400ft versions of 'Born Free' and 'The Invisible Man' were neatly edited.
Mal
[ July 17, 2006, 06:54 AM: Message edited by: Mal Brake ]
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on July 16, 2006, 05:46 PM:
Columbia digests of "Born Free" or "Country Western Greatest Hits Vol one.
Graham.
Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on July 17, 2006, 02:40 AM:
prehaps this is wrong,but what about deranns brillant
extracts from PEARL HARBOUR,THE MATRIX,GLADIATOR,and
the MINES OF MOIRA extract from L.O.T.R.
great modern releases.andy.
Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on July 17, 2006, 06:33 AM:
Osi, I too loved the Alien 400ft release. The editing is outstanding. Although it's not a film I can stand being cut at all.
I think you'll find all those editors working on Super 8 cut downs were professionals (certainly the UK distributors used professional film editors). Although it's hard to believe on some releases where dialogue overplays the film in order to tell the story. One reel even came with a single word which was "Later!" A lesson in how to destroy a film with a single word perhaps.
Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on July 17, 2006, 07:03 AM:
Andy,
Those extracts are (for the most part) complete sequences from a film and there is no editing involved. The thing about a great digest is how it captures the mood or manages to tell the story of a feature length film in a fraction of the time.
Doug
Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on July 17, 2006, 08:32 AM:
well doug,i would agree but PEARL HARBOUR is a cut down.
if it was the complete attack,then it would be on a 600ft
spool at least.
However the 2 reeler is a brillant cut down and does
in its 18minutes what the old digests did,back then.
i've ran this cut down more than any other film in
my collection.its brillant.
Would you not agree that's what an extract/digest does best.andy.
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 17, 2006, 11:23 AM:
I agree about the "dialogue" problem. I have a cut down of "The Caine Mutiny" and the idiot narrarating it completely destroys it for me!
Well, hey folks, how about the WORST digest out there?!
Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on July 18, 2006, 09:19 AM:
I pulled out my Superman 400 footer the other day and I thought they did a wonderful job with it. However, for sheer creativity and quality, the Castle Frankenstein was a marvelous piece of work....using wipes, dissolves...music from the main title over the first shots of Karloff....and putting main titles and credits over part of the opening graveyard scenes, thus saving more footage for the action. Sound quality and picture both top notch.
Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on July 18, 2006, 08:38 PM:
I absolutely agree with Gary that the Castle 200' FRANKENSTEIN stands above the rest. It's not "choppy" (unlike the 200' JAWS) and it flows nicely.
Certainly there are some great 400' digests out there (e.g., CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON -- wish it was "flat" though instead of the weak 3-D) but in my mind, the Castle 200' FRANKENSTEIN digest is a textbook example of a digest at its best.
Also, I absolutely agree with the posts regarding the inane "narration" of some digests, particularly the Columbia monstrosities. I avoid Columbia 400' digests for that very reason. Most of the narration is totally unnecessary and/or provides FAR TOO much story exposition for an 18-minute digest! (To see what I mean, try Columbia's SON OF DR. JEKYLL or BYE BYE BIRDIE 400' digests. Good grief -- the narrator provides enough storyline for a miniseries!) Or, for some reason in some digests, the narrator feels like he has to describe the action occurring on the screen. ("Suddenly, the giant chicken attacks!")
In terms of my vote for the "worst" digest -- Ken's 200' CRIMSON CULT gets my vote as one of the worst. I watched it once and it made absolutely NO sense!
Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on July 19, 2006, 03:18 AM:
My favourite Digests have to be the MGM cut downs which I have been collecting for the past few years. Perhaps the best among them are the musical edits. My first purchase in this series was "Singin' in the Rain" on 2 x 400ft reels, it's a little like a collection of musical numbers with no attempt to tell the story, this works very well, the sequence of musical numbers is not as they are found in the film as they have been edited to work better with themselves in the absence of the story line, it works very well. Likewise "High Society" and "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers" work well as a series of musical numbers, with the associated choreography and dance routines, my personal favourite from Seven Brides is the Pole Cat Dance, how nobody lost a limb through a misplaced axe blow through the making of this great number I shall never know!
Another great 2 x 400fter from the MGM stable is "Fame" which succeeds in tying together the great musical numbers and giving a sense of the story too. I have this condensation re-spooled onto an 800ft reel and it provides a very re-watchable 40 minutes of pure "feel good" cinema .
Of the 3 x 400fters released by MGM "Clash of the Titans" is great fun, an excellant print with still good colour and sound, and my most recent purchase; an Ebay buy from just before I came away so not yet properly appraised, is the 3 x 400fter to "American in Paris", one of my favourite Musicals and it was great to see almost the entire "Gershwinesqe" Ballet scene preserved towards the end, what a great musical score this has!
"Wizard of Ox" and "Easter Parade" both make great little 400fters, preserving a little of the story amongst the song and dance routines along with lots of colour.
On another note entirely, I have both the 400fters released of "Star Wars" and (I'm sure other forum members no more about this than I do), understand that the first reel to be released was originally intended to be the only release but the response was so good that the studios did a second cut down that could be cunningly edited in to the original to give a longer final extract with no repetition. Mine were skilfully spliced together by the original owner to good effect, sadly though there is quite a varience in colour and sound quality on the two releases so the cuts are nolonger seemless .
Mike ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on July 20, 2006, 04:25 AM:
Hi Mike
I have the feeling that the 200ft version came out as a teaser before Star Wars started its cinema run and it wasent long after that Ken Films released the 400ft which wasent the norm in those days to get a release so soon . I think the second part dident get released until after the 400ft Empire Strikes Back came out, it was a long time ago so hopefully I have facts right.
Graham.
Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on July 20, 2006, 09:21 AM:
YOU'RE virtully spot on graham.The 2nd extract from STAR WARS
did'nt come out until early '81.
That's a full four months after E.S.B.;extract one.Andy.
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 22, 2006, 10:17 AM:
Ah, those wonderful Star Wars Extracts! As this was my favorite film growing up, I am terribly fond of them. I was saddened to see that Columbia never released a 2x400 of "Close Encounters", as it would have been brilliant, and it was such a money maker for Columbia pictures. Come to think of it, (I'm sure you folks no out there), were there many 2x400 ft. releases by Columbia. i know Fox and Universal were quite good about that, but I don't know much about Columbia.
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on July 26, 2006, 07:25 PM:
Hi Andrew
Thanks it was certainly a long time ago, and if I remember right Super 8 was very expensive here are a few examples. 400ft about 80 dollars, Universal 2-400ft 135 dollars, Marketing 3-400ft 235 dollars, thats about two and a half dollars to the pound. and that was back in the 80s. Andrew I was reading some old movie mags from the 60s its a wonder anyone could afford getting involved in Super 8 the costs of equipment was well out of the reach of the average person makes interesting reading.
Osi
I dont remember Columbia releasing anything more than 400ft versions however what impressed me was that with films like "Born Free" they gave you close to 20min of film and considering a lot of digests were about 15 to 16 minutes getting the extra length made a difference.
Regards Graham.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on July 27, 2006, 03:22 AM:
Osi,
I don't know if this categorised as 2 x 400 but Columbia released "Driving Instruction...." Part 1 & 2 (can not really think the exact title).
In German they released The Deep in two parter and some others i think. (Andreas will know this)
thanks,
Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on July 27, 2006, 04:53 AM:
Columbia even did full length features. Seems to me you people need to be subscribing to 'Small Format' where all will be revealed.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on July 29, 2006, 12:06 AM:
Trigerred by other thread regarding Emanuelle....yes this is another 2 x 400 relesed by Columbia.
Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on July 29, 2006, 12:16 PM:
I consider these to be some of the most skillfully edited digests in super 8 history-
*Frankenstien 200 foot (Castle)
*The Omen 400 foot (Ken)
*Alien 400 foot (KEN)
*Jaws 200 foot (U8)
*Capricorn One 600 foot (Derann)
*Ben Hur 3 x 400 foot (MGM)
These digests are so skillfully edited and flow incredibly smooth, telling the story in the process. You can tell that alot of time and effort went into the making of these shorts.
Nick.
Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on July 29, 2006, 02:05 PM:
Thanks for the suggestions - I've been wanting to obtain some more 400ft digests but wasn't sure where to start
I believe Derann currently has the 600ft. digest of Capricorn One on their used films list, am I correct?
As for Frankenstien: just a typo, or a wink at Victor's preferred pronounciation of his family name in Young Frankenstein? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posted by Andreas Eggeling (Member # 105) on July 29, 2006, 02:20 PM:
Jan,
why not "Frankenstyn" ???
Sty(le) instead of "stei"
Andreas
Posted by Trevor Adams (Member # 42) on May 01, 2007, 06:22 AM:
I spent the day running old Universal digests.Most had terminal fade. The best one by a country mile was The Blues Bros-had me a stompin' and a clappin' and a singin' along! Great stuff.
Posted by Matthew Newman (Member # 793) on May 02, 2007, 03:55 AM:
It's funny, everyone is mentioning the same films - Hollywood classics and so forth. These are movies everyone knows well, so the digest is always in effect reminding you of an experience you enjoyed in a different context. But there ARE digests out there that deliver as individual experiences.
One of the reasons I bought a super 8 projector was to see crazy stuff that no-one is interested in reselling on DVD anymore. When I bought the projector, I bought a bunch of Asian kung-fu flicks. One of them 'Karato: Fist of Death' (400') was a simple revenge flick, but it drew me in instantly by opening with the story's central conflict. It followed with two well-edited twists in the narrative, making all relationships clear, and then dropped the film's major reversal. I was gobsmacked! I watched the last five minutes absolutely gripped, and the ending was cathartic and - good god - actually moving. The film had no produciton value to speak of, the colour was drained out of it, and my projector is very noisy. But it was as pure an emotional experience as I've paid for in the cinema over the last year.
I've watched a bunch of digests over the last week, but only this one has delivered emotion. Has anyone else ever been moved by a digest?
Posted by Kurt Gardner (Member # 440) on May 02, 2007, 09:28 AM:
Back to Hollywood. The Ken Films 400' "The Exorcist" is really quite a stunner. Not only does it preserve all the really shocking stuff, it does so while keeping enough of a comprehensible storyline going. I've shown it to friends who haven't seen the whole feature (cruel, I know) and they were able to follow right along. As an added bonus, my print's color is holding up really well!
Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on May 02, 2007, 10:22 AM:
Kurt,
I agree with you about "The Exorcist". The digest is very cleverly edited, especially in a couple of scenes where dialouge is laid over other images (e.g. the discussion about Father Merrin) to help advance the plot quickly. "Exorcist" is however not a Ken Films release. It is from Warner Bros., whose titles were distributed through Columbia Pictures Home Entertainment.
Doug
Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on May 02, 2007, 10:41 AM:
"Has anyone else ever been moved by a digest?"
Marketing´s 3*400 Chinatown contains all the key scenes, so if your heart is not made of stone, you care at least a little bit what happens to Evelyn Mulwray...
Cheers,
Lars
Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on May 06, 2007, 11:08 PM:
I agree about KEN's "Crimson Cult". What a piece of poo! I never had a silent version of it, but I imagine it;s not much better with the narration missing from it. I can't make sense of what's going on and I think there's only one scene with Karloff and it's at the very end. KEN's titles seem to always work better as silent editions as long as you're already familiar with the entire movie - otherwise you'll be lost. Sadly, "Taste The Blood Of Dracula" nor "Frankenstein Must Be Destroyed" were never issued in Color/Sound versions. The editing on these is not quite so bad and they may have benefited from sound. How are COLUMBIA's "Return Of The Vampire", "The Black Room" and "Revenge Of Frankenstein"? I have many of the silent Stooges titles and the only bad thing is the damned 'window-boxed' subtitles that practically obliterate 1/3 of the picture.
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 06, 2007, 11:43 PM:
I agree that "Alien" is quite high on the best digest list. I was stunned that as slow a moving film that "alien" is, (though a classic, it is magnificently slow), they were able to edit the storyline down so incredibly well.
Posted by Ralf Hoff (Member # 36) on May 07, 2007, 07:58 AM:
Sadly, "Taste The Blood Of Dracula" nor "Frankenstein Must Be Destroyed" were never issued in Color/Sound versions.
Hello Brad,
Taste the blood of dracula was available in a color/sound version (400 ft). For years I' ve this print in my collection. I think it was a derann release.
I sold this, I hope that Derann will be release a full feature of this.
Greetings
Ralf
Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on May 07, 2007, 08:43 AM:
Nice to bring that old thread back.
U8 definitely had the creative energy to produce some of the best two-parters ever (and some really great one reelers). The Blues Brothers was my Holy Grail and I finally found it for a ridiculously low price a few weeks ago after years of research. Can I die, now?
Seriously (duh!) the 2x400ft of Jaws remains my favorite, even though I admit that the editing job on the 200ft is remarkable.
Osi, you're right, the 400ft of Alien is smashing.
Doug, Kev, Brad: Just for fun, why don't we organize "The Best Package Movie of All Time Awards" on this forum to elect the best cut-downs ever edited?
Let's keep it simple, we set a period of time (say until august 07) set-up an email address where members could send their favorite titles in the 200ft, 400ft, 800ft and 1200 ft categories (one title per category).
In September, we release a list, Oscar-style, with the four most cited titles in each category. Then members can vote for the best of the best in each section.
And we announce the winners at the october BFCC. And perhaps we screen said winners. And then all proceed to the bar!
(and if you need a poor soul to run the poll, I don't mind volunteering).
Posted by Robert Wales (Member # 502) on May 07, 2007, 09:46 PM:
I remember being very touched by the finale of the MGM cut-down of Intenational Velvet, of all things ; never having seen the feature and being completely satisfied by the story.
Hardly the best digest ever but it worked 100% for me.
Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on May 09, 2007, 01:06 PM:
Jean-Marc,
Nice idea! There should also be a 600' category. I think it would be great if we could also include 200' and possibly 50' silent versions since there are so many out there that were never released with sound. Kev & I will work out the details. And since you volunteered........
Doug
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 09, 2007, 05:06 PM:
i'D LOVE TO FIND A GOOD COPY OF "The Blues Brothers".
Does it have the complete song sequences? Especially that whole last two songs near the end when they are in concert?
(also Cab Calloway's number, "Minnie The Moocher"?)
That would be a great candidate for stereo rerecord, especially if it has the whole songs intact.
I think the idea of having a contest would be good, as long as we could verify one vote per member.
Why not have a worst digest ever as well?
Posted by Stewart McSporran (Member # 128) on May 09, 2007, 05:27 PM:
What about a category for "Digest I Wasn't Expecting Much From But It Turned Out Ok"?
I nominate "Disco Beaver From Outer Space". Turns out to be quite funny - if you're into "Kentucky Fried Movie" type of humour.
Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on May 09, 2007, 07:41 PM:
Stewart-
In that catagory, I would nominate "Sky Riders" 400 foot.
I remember when it played at my local cinema, but it didnt do too well and was gone in about a week. I got the 400 foot digest, and it is very good. Good story, good cinematography, lots of action, and excellently edited.
James.
Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on May 09, 2007, 11:43 PM:
Osi,
Cab singing "Minnie the Moocher" is nowhere to be found in "The Blues Brothers" digest which was quite a disappointment when I first watched it.
James,
I'm in total agreement about Ken's "Skyriders".
Doug
Posted by Brian Hendel (Member # 61) on March 27, 2012, 09:08 PM:
My vote goes to the Americom 200' Regular 8mm color/sound digest of THE CURSE OF FRANKENSTEIN. I can't believe how tightly and smooth the editing is... Starting with the collection of body parts, the storm bringing the creature to life... through every single murder scene... to the finale with Cushing setting his creation ablaze... there is no highlight missing. I've been watching this alot lately... and even though it's reddish it never gets dull.
Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on March 28, 2012, 08:34 PM:
Brian,
I'll have to pull that one out of the closet.....along with the record player! I don't have any Americoms where the sound doesn'tcome from a flexi disc.
Doug
Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on April 23, 2012, 08:09 AM:
I think the 400' "French Connection" takes some beating.It tells
the story,isn't rushed,keeps all the key scenes and has very good
print and sound.The editor did an excellent job on this.
Posted by Eric Ray (Member # 3000) on April 23, 2012, 09:27 PM:
Doug
My Americom version of Big Noise had a magnetic strip. You did not need the vinyl record. You had to run the movie at 18fps.
Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on April 23, 2012, 10:29 PM:
Eric,
Thanks. Americom released a number of their titles in mag sound, however they're on the rare side.
Doug
Posted by Patrick Walsh (Member # 637) on April 23, 2012, 11:38 PM:
hmm my favorites would be WHERE EAGLES DARE 3x400ft, THE TOWERING INFERNO 3x400ft and MADIGAN 1x400ft
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