This is topic Forum Rules Question - Discussion of 8mm Porn's Value in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.
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Posted by Patrick Mulhern (Member # 936) on October 24, 2007, 10:19 PM:
Hi all, as you can see I am new to the board. I haven't seen anything forbidding talk based on 8mm pornography but I also haven't seen any threads on the subject either. So I was just wondering if its okay to discuss, figured I should find out before jumping into the discussion.
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on October 24, 2007, 10:36 PM:
I know that I can't talk for everyone, but as long as the conversations stay "above the belt", I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem.
For instance, there have been discussions about "Emanuelle", a soft core classic from the 1970's, as well as a few others that i can remember ...
But we also take pride in our forum not becoming a cesspool.
Just so it's not misunderstood, I'm not trying to become the concience of the forum, but I'm sure most members would agree with me.
From what I'm seen of 8mm or Super 8 porn, most of it looks like just what it is, a couple of non-actors stripping down and embarrassing themselves ...
"Ooooh it's so big"
or
"Oh my, your tools are so big"
Lets face it, no one ever expected much from those films.
(but I bet it would be a hoot to run those backwards thru the projector.)
Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on October 24, 2007, 10:55 PM:
I don't think it is a good idea. In fact it sucks. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posted by Patrick Mulhern (Member # 936) on October 24, 2007, 11:01 PM:
Well the example you gave is more along the lines of questioning that I had. I figured it wouldn't be an issue as long as it stayed in good tastes. So here goes.
I bought a new house and in the master bedroom was a secret comparement that housed some 70s porn, including a few 8mm films. The films are still in what I presume are their original boxes (I was born in 83' so couldn't really say I know what they looked like back then) and look to be in okay condition. The reason I became so interested in them is because one of them is labeled as 'Deep Throat' which some may know as one of the first pornos to hit mainstream theatres, and apparently a cultural icon in some respects.
I thought someone here maybe able to help me with some information about the film. I was wonder first, lacking an 8mm projector, is there an easy way to be able to look at the actual film to make sure its the film the box claims it is. I was thinking that I could possibly take a picture of some of the slides with my SLR camera and then zoom in to get a blown up view? It maybe a ludicrious idea and thats really why I am here.
Secondly I noticied that you guys also do trading/selling of films and was wondering if anyone could weigh in on how much the film maybe worth. I was thinking of eBaying it but wouldn't want to create an auction without at least knowing what it maybe worth. I have a feeling that 8mm was the first format the title was released to, but haven't been able to confirm that. Unfortunatley whenever you search for such things the returns are usually just porn...not information.
If you're bored I actually wrote a little blog post about the discovery: JoeUser Blog
Any information is appreciated!
Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on October 25, 2007, 01:16 AM:
Sorry about that Patrick! I though you were into porn and wanted discuss the content of the films. If you want to match the titles with the right boxes get a magnifying glass and pull of a few feet of film and you will be able to see the title. Also you will be able to tell if the color(if they are in color) is good. Some film stocks will lose there color and turn to red and some will not. Take into consideration that they may have sound. Look for a thin continuos brown strip down one side of the film. Check to see if the films have a vinegar smell too. If they do do, then they are in a stage of deterioration. All these are important factors film collectors want to know. I don't think porn films are worth very much, but then I haven't bought or sold any. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
P.S. Secret compartment eh! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on October 25, 2007, 03:56 AM:
Interesting one. How did you manage to find this secret compartment ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
You may find that if you pull the first few feet of leader (countdown numbers) off the spool that the title has been printed along that length for easy identification.
I certainly remember that title on sale and i think it probably sold quite well in it's day.
You should try putting it on eBay
Kev.
Posted by Patrick Mulhern (Member # 936) on October 25, 2007, 06:38 AM:
No problem Dan.
The guy who owned the place before me had these knee-high shelves next to the bed and I didn't like them so friends and I began ripping them out. Not long after pulling the carpet off them someone saw hinges on one side. We couldn't figure out how it swung open but the crowbar did the trick and then porn just poured out of it...we were pretty shocked but its a damned good story ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Will let you guys know what I found out when I look more closely at the film. Hopefully theres no vinegar smell, it was in a wooden box that seemed to stay dry and clean from the looks of the other items that were in it.
Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on October 25, 2007, 06:38 AM:
Hello Patrick
Welcome to the forum, and well done for mentioning the Elephant in the Room. There are certainly collectors of 8mm porn out there, and there are clearly certain “studios” and “artistes” that create more interest than others. There have been one or two oblique references to the genre on here in the past.
I was once given a shoebox full of 8mm blue movies by a work colleague, who, knowing that I collected 8mm film thought I might want them. She told me that her husband, who had been a prison warder, had brought them home from work, though I’m still not sure how they came to be “at work”…
Actually I still have them, having watched each one through once with a mate, and marvelled at the 70s décor and side burns, they were all returned to their box and put in a wardrobe where they remain.
I have to say though, that the most impressive thing about the ones I have is the packaging, which in quality and complexity rivals the best of the package movies of the day.
I’d be interested to know how yours does on Ebay so keep us posted.
Mike
Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on October 25, 2007, 06:50 AM:
Patrick,
If you do list them on ebay be very careful with the descriptions. Obvilously list them in the "other film formats" under the DVD section but make sure you dont call them "porn" otherwise they will be removed very swiftly. Call them Glamour movies or the like.
Kev.
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on October 25, 2007, 09:28 AM:
I think video is eminently more Porn friendly than cine. Other than bachelor parties, most "consumption" of porn is done not only in private, but extreme private.
Let's face it, a movie on a projector is a certain presence in the house, with sound or without. It would be a lot easier to push a button on the remote and switch to the Disney Channel when the wife or Mom is coming up the stairs than to run across the room flip the projector off and say "Nothing" when she asks "What are you doing?"
The secret panel is the mark of a real enthusiast.
All I found in my house was a huge metal box of wire coat hangers. We're still working on what that was about. (Maybe he was nursing a secret hatred of Joan Crawford!)
Posted by Bart Smith (Member # 780) on October 25, 2007, 12:55 PM:
As I understand it there has always been a lively(ish) market in Harrison Marks 8mm glamour films.
Earlier today I was sorting through a box of (mostly uninteresting) reels that we got in at work as a job lot with a projector. One of them was in an unmarked brown box, so I opened it up to take a look at the first few feet. The film is Super 8 B&W silent. I could see the opening titles. Superimposed onto a psychedelic Bridget Riley style swirly background I could clearly read the film's title - "Hot Flesh"!
I may take a look at it tomorrow on a projector, if only for the amusement value, I'm sure that it won't be very racy by today's standards. Personally I've never liked dealing in 8mm porn, and never buy them if they are offered to me. I guess that for all my supposedly liberal values and laissez-faire attitude that I espouse (especially when tipsy), I am in reality a bit of a prude!
On a side note I was at the BFCC for an hour or so early on last Saturday. I came across a dealer who will remain unnamed (though I have known him for at least 15 years) who had a "discreet" cardboard box of porn DVDs on his stall. So "discreet" that it was slap-bang in the middle of the table.
Posted by Patrick Mulhern (Member # 936) on October 25, 2007, 04:48 PM:
No vinegar smell, so that should be good. And the first few feet of film just says 'Deep Throat' on it so seems like its the real thing (although I have never seen the movie). There is a kink in the film about 2 feet in, but thats the only kink I saw, I looked at about 6 feet total.
Now to try and figure out how much the movie is actually worth...
Posted by Andreas Eggeling (Member # 105) on October 25, 2007, 06:26 PM:
From scientific view it should be permitted to discuss about it.
This kind of films had a direct influence on publishing of
non-adult 8mm films.
I remind to the fact that the company "marketing-film" had its roots in producing and distributing of porn films under the lable "Love Film". They were forced because of the Danish competition to offer these films in beautiful colored covers.
As they started under the lable "marketing-film" to distribute youth-free digests also in beautiful (blue) covers, it was a sign to piccolo-film and UFA to develop likewise complex covers.
So piccolo and UFA came out with clam-shell boxes in 1975.
The company used the thinner Kodak Polyester also first for their lable "Love Film" to offer 180m porn on 150 m reels in order to be better in relation to the competition.
Then one year later, in 1978, they started to print their "marketing-films" on thinner polyester filmstock, with the argument to splice three 120 m reels on a 240 m reel.
On German auction platforms obtain these special marketing-films often good prices. Also the films of the competitors "Starlight Film" and "TABU". The reason may lie in the fact that these german productions are embedded often in a comedy action, like "Sensational Janine" which was published by Starlight as full feature. The director of this AND other XXX-films on 8mm, Hans Bilian, started his career in the 60s with making comedies.
Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on October 25, 2007, 08:22 PM:
Patrick-
You may not be familiar with how long 8mm films last. E.g. if the film is on 400 ft reel (about 7 inches across), the maximum running time is likely to be around 18 minutes. So if that's what you have, it would probably be an edited 8mm version of the film rather than the complete feature. Another factor would be whether it is sound or silent. A sound film would have what looks like thin strips of magnetic tape next to the edges on one side. It's unfortunate that the former owner's secret place did not also include his projector, partly because this would have enabled you to check the condition, etc.
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on October 25, 2007, 08:49 PM:
I Have to be honest I hate the word p o r n, I can`t even bring myself to join the letters up. Just yuk etc.
For me there is something very unpleasant about it !!!!! thats sort of de-humanising and has the feel of something degrading about it.
Don`t get me wrong its not the subject as such its just for me the word conjurs up all thats bad and sad in that industry. Glamour is far better though much these days couldn`t go under that heading.
Best Mark.
Posted by Dan Pinto (Member # 630) on October 25, 2007, 08:53 PM:
I once found a shoebox full of films at a yard sale n Brooklyn, which is, by the way, the yard sale capital on Earth.
What a bummer when they all turned out to be stag films...
oh well...
Danny
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on October 25, 2007, 10:22 PM:
Interesting:
I received a stash of really awful 1960s porn from a friend in Brooklyn when she cleaned out her aunt's (..and uncle's) attic.
Your average cemetery has better plots than these "films"!
-fuhgeddaboudit!
Posted by Brian Hendel (Member # 61) on October 25, 2007, 10:33 PM:
I have a warning for anyone with porn in their 8mm collection. You may want to throw it out before you pass away... Case in point: Back in the early 70's there was a man my grandfather introduced me to who collected 8mm films. I used to love going to his home to screen films (he had a huge collection of Blackhawk silent features, I remember) and I partly credit him for jump-starting my life-long film obsession... Cut to 30 years later... he dies and my uncle just happens to buy his home and all it's contents. I was allowed to go through the house and take what I wanted. There were a number of films left and I grabbed all I could... It's was quite sad actually because someone had ransacked the house and his film collection, which was always kept in perfect order, was thrown all over the floor with many of the reels crushed.... There were also a number of reels without boxes or labels... and when I screened them they turned out to be 70's Porn (Gay Porn actually)! The poor guy... this was a man with a wife and kids and heavily involved in his church... He must be rolling in his grave knowing that his stash was discovered. Anyway, I'm glad I found them and not someone else in his family... I was able to throw them away for him and keep his secret life secret.
Posted by Andreas Eggeling (Member # 105) on October 26, 2007, 03:53 AM:
[ August 07, 2008, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Andreas Eggeling ]
Posted by Bart Smith (Member # 780) on October 26, 2007, 06:44 AM:
Well I watched "Hot Flesh" this morning, and much to my surprise it was a lot "steamier" than I had expected, and a truly awful quality print.
I had to have a nice mug of tea afterwards.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on October 26, 2007, 08:35 AM:
Each to his or her own i guess, i personally dont go out of my way to watch or buy it but porn is simply, (in my view)softcore but showing the normally cut or hidden parts, it only becomes total trash when the coples are depraved and/or doing acts which are unpleasant, painful or weird. those are simply sick and clearly made for a minority sicko audience,
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on October 26, 2007, 10:35 AM:
I do agree with you Mark about porn ...
When I was a teen, many moons ago, (30 years! My gawd, has it been that long?), I used to be addicted to porn, and though i stopped looking at it as of 19 years old, the effects of it on the brain lingered for many years.
I'm not going to go into a long tirade about morals, but i know for a fact that porn induces men especially to look at women as just a piece of meat instead of a person, and it took years before I could realize that they had feelings and not just some plything. It's probably why I didn't marry until I was 39. I couldn't approach a REAL woman for years. Porn affects each person differently, but NEVER (truthfully) in a positive way.
endeth that discussion by me.
The sad thing is I wouldn't be suprised if the porn holds it's colors better than my beloved Woody Woodpecker cartoons!
Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on October 26, 2007, 11:05 AM:
Interesting discussion; this brings back memories of a certain gent in my hometown in Denmark who could occationally be found with his car trunk open, selling super-8......
In my teens (mid-late 70es) I had a Super-8 filmmaking friend and already at that point we were pretty demanding (he was absolutely the only one in our home town to shoot/project his home movies in 'Scope.)
When we saw this fellow peddling his wares, I, being a bit more innocent in the ways of the world, wanted to know if there were good deals to be had on things like 'Star Trek: the Motion Picture" and the like. My friend gently informed me that the films being sold were, well you know..that other kind.
I like Andreas E's line about the pretty boxes; it is true that the packaging and, in the few instances of prints I have seen, the print quality were on par with the best commercial releases.
For better or worse, the porn industry has always been among the 'early adapters' (Super-8, VHS, Internet) when it comes to providing content. Ah well, such is the world.
Best,
Claus Harding
Posted by Sam James (Member # 477) on October 26, 2007, 12:32 PM:
Irrespective of whether people gaining pleasure from observing others performing various acts of coitous on film, video or top shelf mags is morally right or wrong, I was under the, perhaps mistaken, impression that the pre-eminence of the Elmo GS1200 today is due to the fact that so many of them were the work horses of the American skin-flick cinemas. They would have been running in some cases for 24hrs and would therefore had to have been maintained. If this is true, then it would seem churlish to dismiss out of hand the content of what they were projecting.
As it happens when I was a young spotty teenager in the Seventies, I had a saturday job that involved me being alone all day in my bosses office. I soon found a projector and some dodgy films, but couldn't get the motor to work. Consequently I tried cranking the films by hand and got in such a pickle trying to coordinate the other hand that I gave up on the whole unseemly affair!
Sam
Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on October 26, 2007, 02:03 PM:
Sam
Funny you mention that, when I was first looking for a GS1200 I went to Lees Cameras, late of Old Holborn. The guy in there advised me that I had to be very careful when buying a GS1200 second hand in London because so many of them had seen extended service in the porn cinemas of Soho...
Mike ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on October 26, 2007, 02:19 PM:
I worked with a guy who although he grew up Moslem, ran a porn shop in...Brooklyn (Why is it always Brooklyn?). He did this for a while after he closed his bar on Trinidad. (Suffice it to say, this guy's a character!)
When he heard I was into film he donated to me a very ruggedly built Yelco Super-8 projector which was a leftover from his shop.
It's silent, but I bet it has some stories to tell!
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on October 26, 2007, 03:12 PM:
Osi, Not sure what you watched exactly but ive always found if something plays on your mind its certainly not of "normall stuff",
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on October 26, 2007, 03:40 PM:
Been reading through this topic and how many forum members were in there teenage years during the 70s, Yikes I feel old ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
anyone else from the 60s flower people and all that.
Graham.
Posted by Andreas Eggeling (Member # 105) on October 26, 2007, 05:30 PM:
[ August 07, 2008, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: Andreas Eggeling ]
Posted by Jim Carlile (Member # 812) on October 29, 2007, 03:00 AM:
It's funny. The first thing I remember noticing in the old Movie Maker magazine were the naturism ads at the back. So 8mm and porn have a long history together.
The other day I read that John Holmes started with 8mm reels and these are extremely rare and valuable.
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on October 29, 2007, 09:15 AM:
I suspect 5 minutes after somebody invented ink, they drew a dirty picture and then sold it.
...just human nature!
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on October 29, 2007, 10:28 AM:
Very True Steve.
The porn I looked at was the normal stuff, but i have read that sensitive, (tender-hearted) or better put .. shy guys, tend to be more psycologically harmed by porn than more out going guys.
I was certainly the shy guy back in High school, (glad i got over that in the last few years!). If you have a natural tendency of having a hard time approaching women in the first place, porn does more damage to you.
Then, there are those people who can look at it everyday and it won't effect them much.
Who would have thought that the porn posts would go on this long?!
Hey guys, I said "woody Woodpecker" in my post before this one!!
"Woody?" Get it?! WOODY??!!
Oh well.
Posted by Albert Steg (Member # 1237) on August 07, 2008, 10:10 AM:
Hi -- I just happened upon this thread and thought I'd add a few comments.
First, this thread is a terrific demonstration of one of the enduring mysteries of porn: it outsells every other genre (100's, perhaps 1000's of 8mm porn reels sold for every 'mainstream' reel) -- *yet no one watches it*! It must just that lonely fat psycho guy on the other side of the tracks.
At any rate, I do collected porn/erotica/blue movies, what have you, in both 8mm and 16mm (no interest in video or dvd etc.). So if any of you run across collections and don't feel a moral imperative to destroy it, drop me a line and I'll give you something for them - not much, but something.
Regarding some more specific questions / comments on the thread:
1) Deep Throat on 8mm -- as everyone knows, DT was an enormous box-office success, and therefore the 4-reel 8mm reductions were produced and bootlegged in enormous quantities. As a result, many have survived and they are not worth much at all. So, don't knock yourself out trying to market this -- unless you can connive someone into thinking its a true rarity.
2) John Holmes appeared in 8mm films from the start of his career all the way into the 80's, and he made 100's of different loops in various stag series. His films were very popular (you all know his name, right?) so they sold large quantities, and as a result are not at all rare.
Albert
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 07, 2008, 11:45 AM:
It's no Mystery Albert, SEX SELLS!!
Take a product that won't sell, say wankled rotary engines, (that's just funny to say!), and it won't sell ...
Then drape a half naked woman all over it, saying ...
"I'll do anything for a man with a wankled rotary engine!"
and they'll sell like hotcakes! (Especially if the ad ends with "Get Rotary, GET WANKLED!)
This is excellent timing as Fred K Wilders is selling a very rare feature print, I forget the title, but it's a history of the adult film industry, all the way from the silent movies, all the way up to "Deep Throat", (that tells you about when it was made).
By the way, Fred K Wilders prints are top notch, so your sure to get a good print of very rare feature title, for those interested in the subject, (there might be many a film starlett in that, many of them did start making "blue" movies)!
Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on August 07, 2008, 04:05 PM:
What is the origin of this word, "porn"? I know pornography, curious as to the first usage though, nothing more, oh and yes, welcome to the manifold of film
Posted by Albert Steg (Member # 1237) on August 07, 2008, 05:33 PM:
From greek 'porni' = prostitute.
a.
Posted by James E. Stubbs (Member # 817) on August 07, 2008, 07:32 PM:
Great story... Not suprising actually considering that porn back that was actually still quite voodoo as it still should be in my opinion. But I live in Pornland Oregon where we have ZERO decency laws.... As to the films "Stag films" as they were called at the time are in fact quite valuable and highly sought after in certian markets. I was in a collectables store I frequent that get's in a fair amount of 8mm stuff. They had several films that were outragously priced. They never hung around long. I'm talking $20-$50 each! I asked the owner about this an he told me what I've just told you....So if in good condition with origninal packaging you can actually do quite well selling them on eBay where they are frequently sold. As mentioned before DO NOT CALL THEM PORN. Stag Films is the preffered term and seems to be allowed by ebay.
Cheers,
Posted by Albert Steg (Member # 1237) on August 09, 2008, 09:07 AM:
I certainly didn't mean to say that *no* stag films were rare or valuable -- just that the Deep Throat sets and John Holmes appearances aren't particularly unusual among collectors. They come up on ebay very regularly. On the other hand, I couldn't tell you a single brick-and-mortar store where you can regularly expect to alk in and find stag film for sale, so it doesn't surprise me that one that does have them for sale might do very well on them among buyers who haven't made the leap to the internet or who just haven't looked very hard.
Another example -- the "rare" stag film that purportedly stars Barbra Streisand --one of these comes up on ebay a few times a year, and the seller often touts it as "incredibly rare" if not "one of a kind" and opens bidding at $500 or so. Ones that list at $9.99 usually sell for $20. If someone occasionally pays the $500 sucker price, that doesn't really make the film any more rare or valuable.
Large lots of 8mm stags routinely sell on ebay for $2 - $4 / reel in bulk, often loaded with John Holmes and Linda Lovelace appearances.
Albert
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 09, 2008, 10:21 AM:
One would hope that for 500.00, it would actually end up being Barbera Streisand. You wouldn't think she would do a stag film though, as her claim to fame was her voice and she didn't need to do a stag film in order to "break into" the film business. I'm betting that it's someone who looks like her.
Posted by Albert Steg (Member # 1237) on August 09, 2008, 11:23 AM:
Well, in industries with sleazy "gate keepers" even very talented people can get exploited. But no, the person in the film is definitely not Streisand.
Albert
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