8mm Forum: Number of prints for each title released (post 1985 production)

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Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 04, 2011, 10:19 AM:

I really want to know the number of prints for each title Derann has released (no need to include trailers) to measure how big is our chance to get a particular title in the second hand market.

Anyone has a precise data on this issue?

We knew that Derann has closed down. So this information will not effect anyone/anything....I think. [Wink]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 04, 2011, 11:07 AM:

My Gawd!

That's a big task, but I agree with you, it would be quite helpful in tracking down a potential title. I believe that Derann's printing of (for instance) "Close Encounters of the Special Kind: Special edition" was only 14 or 17 prints (Spielberg put the "kibosh" on the release from what I understand), so that ones a hard one to find!

[ November 05, 2011, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: Osi Osgood ]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 04, 2011, 11:14 AM:

Osi, I knew this is a hard one if just guessing or using a logic calculation or saying "someone says".

But what I meant was if there was the actual note when Derann released those titles. I believe, Derann must have made a memo when ordering copies to the Lab, and from this memo we can find the actual number of each prints.

I am just wondering if that note is accessible. Anyone dare to get it from Adrian Simmonds?

[Wink]

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on November 04, 2011, 12:31 PM:

Yo Adrian! (Rocky) [Eek!]

Would you care to release the information on how many prints you released on each title you printed? [Big Grin]

Thank you either way, [Smile]

Pat DAlessio [Smile]

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on November 04, 2011, 05:00 PM:

quote:
Close Encounters of the Special Kind

Hey Osi, do you read your posts after you post them?

Bill [Smile]

P. S. I like Winbert's idea...that would be good info.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on November 04, 2011, 05:26 PM:

I have no information about features, however Derann's last few releases (shorts, such as One Froggy Evening and Ferdinand) had runs of approximately 50 prints each.

Doug

Posted by Larry Arpin (Member # 744) on November 04, 2011, 05:40 PM:

You would have to dig up all the invoices from the labs and count how many prints were made. It's possible to guesstimate.

I would have a hard time remembering how many prints I made from years ago. I do remember printing 100 prints of the Star Wars trailers in the early 80's and I sold them all. Of course, they were printed on Eastman so they have all but faded. I sold them all.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on November 05, 2011, 04:31 AM:

Master and Commander was a big success and over 35 prints were struck. That was amazing so I'm sure that will give you an idea of how few features were sold in the later years. Anyone thinking of printing a Super 8 feature would be looking at a maximum print run of a dozen and then if they sell over a number of years (but unlikely unless it is a must-have release and those sort of films just don't come out any longer) perhaps additional pairs of prints could be struck.

Posted by Thomas Smith (Member # 1889) on November 05, 2011, 06:52 AM:

i think every feature had different print runs i collect mostly
the older derann features and i spoke to somebody at derann and
was told that (island of terror)starring peter cushing had only
four super 8mm prints made so who knows for sure ?

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 05, 2011, 10:03 AM:

That's "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" [Smile]

... and no, I don't tend to review my posts right away. I type way too fast but it's a habit I find hard to break.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on November 05, 2011, 07:21 PM:

Winbert - I think in general you have no chance of obtaining such information, expect in situations such as the above when accurate figures are known. There are times when I asked Ged about certain titles and even he wasn't sure, although with certain distributors, records needed to be accurate. However, many - if not all - documents relating to Super 8 releases (such as contracts) were destroyed in Derann's last days so sadly much information can never be pin pointed in future.

I believe the most successful features of the 80s/90s (such as one or two Disney films) sold over 500 copies, but that of course only applied to the very top sellers.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 05, 2011, 10:07 PM:

Adrian, it was so sad knowing all documents were destroyed. For is Deraan is part of 8mm history and such documnets can help to build the whole story of 8mm scenes.

But there is still a chance to get that information, escpecially for those legal releases. I believe the studios (distributors) must still keep those contracts and number of prints for each title. But how can we get access to that info?

BTW anybody can confirm if Master and Comander was one that legal release or the opposite?

ps: I believe we can free talk about this now because Derann is no longer exist ;-)

Posted by Clive Carmock (Member # 347) on December 24, 2011, 02:57 PM:

Wow just 4 copies of Island of Terror - Well I have one of them - the 4x400 verion, sadly badly faded now, but includes a scene that was shortened from the DVD releases.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on December 25, 2011, 08:54 AM:

I believe the last legitimate release was Fantasia 2000. But there may have been another Disney release or two after that one. I think that answers Winbert's question but we still need to be careful about what we publish on here so perhaps it would be sensible to remove this thread???

I remember a dozen prints of Close Encounters (and yes, it was the awful 'Special Edition' version) but it was Derann jumping the gun and printing before all legalities had been cleared that caused the withdrawal of this title. If it had have been the original version of the film this would have been a real loss to the hobby and probably the only way the original could now be seen.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on December 25, 2011, 11:49 AM:

I agree it would be unwise to probe too much into legal issues, at least with regard to anything that happened in the last 25 years ago, so maybe Winbert could edit out the line in question. Regarding 'Close Encounters' the version I heard was that Columbia strongly objected when they discovered Derann offering one or more of their films on a 16mm list and cancelled their whole deal with them. If there's any truth in this, it seems extreme nowadays with hundreds of 16mm featurers on open sale, but it was more of a grey area then. Derann did stop selling 16mm for quite a while at this time.

I'd agree that in theory one or two distributors - perhaps in particular Disney could still have some documentation regarding royalties from Super 8 sales, considering the last payment may have been only about three years ago. But getting the information would still be a challenge; you would need to find which division had the details and even if you did, you would have to hope that they would be willing to reveal the information, and would be willing to spend the time needed to look into it. I doubt if adding to the known history of 8mm would be an incentive! I vaguely recall Ged once telling me that 20th Century Fox didn't require any detailed breakdown of prints, so probably no hope there.

[ December 26, 2011, 01:49 AM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on December 26, 2011, 05:11 AM:

Adrian, as far as I know some copyrights owner do flat rate to make the deal easier, so what Ged said about it might be true.

@ John Clancy, I don't know why when we were talking some Deraan unofficial releases, some were so worried that much but when it was about Italian pirate prints no one seems to bother. Basically they are just the same case. And because now Derann is the past, I don't think we should still cover it.

They are now (Italian and Derann) part of the history.

My 2 cents,

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on December 27, 2011, 02:05 PM:

Winbert, I have to disagree with you with regard to your point to John, but I'll say why privately.

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