8mm Forum: What will be the super 8 destiny ?

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Posted by Salvatore Romeo (Member # 2872) on September 13, 2012, 10:08 AM:

According your opinion :what will be the super 8 destiny ? Now we live in the electronic age , and the most young boys don't knows the super 8 (16 mm and 35 mm).At the end 70 's the super 8 in most part of the world have got a great decline,but thanks derann and CHC now we have a discrete number of modern film,and kodak still sell virgin film for filmaker use.Now derann is closed , and CHC doesn't print (a great number) new film and finding a good print sometime is very difficult.
In the future (ten years o more) the super 8 will be still active or will became a vintage hobby ? ;without new films but only old and faded films......Hope NO
Of course personal and aleatory opinions.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 13, 2012, 10:41 AM:

Nothing in this world is permanent (in the long term, even the world itself).

Tomorrow some bright young mind will invent something revolutionary, and at the rate things are obsoleted these days it will be landfill within five years.

I'm only 50 and electronics I helped develop when I was 30 are literally in museums! (Finding that was a rude discovery!)

-so later on tonight I'm going to take a couple of reels off the shelf, thread 'em up and enjoy them.

...and not worry about it!

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on September 13, 2012, 10:50 AM:

If there no new film is printed, obviously it will become a vintage hobby.

Same thing you see with vintage car collector, vintage radio collector, etc.

We have to accept that.

Posted by Joe Balitzki (Member # 438) on September 13, 2012, 11:01 AM:

I have other Hobbies and one is obsolete as it is enjoying records manufactured for wind up phonographs. The phonographs have been restored and finding records for them in excellent condition is like finding the same in a Super 8mm print. The Key is to enjoy it while you can. To quote from a song in the Feature Film "The Yellow Rolls Royce": "Let's forget about Domani for, Domani never comes..."

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on September 13, 2012, 12:35 PM:

I agree with all the above,when I first got involved with this hobby
I was like everyone else,in a minority.The hobby was specialist
and very expensive.Films to buy were limited and hiring them
was not exactly cheap either.One thing it did have, was that it
was different, it was the novelty value of viewing proper feature
films in ones own home and one that other people enjoyed.
It seems a world away now, with large screen TVs, DVDs and
the ability to project huge pictures,it seems that like many other forms of entertainment, we are now a part of history and
will no doubt be eventually forgotten.The upshot is, does it
really matter, in my humble opinion, not a jot.We have enjoyed
the best years of the hobby,the distributors have served up
some fantastic films to view and the manufacturers have on the
whole fashioned some great projectors to watch them on.
So forget about future generations watching film, the time is
now,we have the films, lets enjoy them while we can before we
all succumb to the final fade out.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on September 13, 2012, 12:56 PM:

There are plenty of used pints around in 8 and 16. If anything is going to limit the lifespan of the hobby it'll be the availability of projector parts and servicing.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on September 13, 2012, 01:26 PM:

All are correct, but film, whether it is still printed or not, has a certain quality when projected, that will never lose is "allure".

We watched "Spaceballs" two days ago, (as one was up for sale, so I trhought I'd pull out my copy). Now, we watched a super 8 optical sound print, and the color and sharpness of that film were just gorgeous, truly at a 16MM quality standard, and we project at "whole bedsheet" size! Very fine grain.

Then, just for the experience, I projected the the laserdisc mand the VHS of this same title for a little bit (using a sharpvision projector with a very high number of pixels), and the comparison was like night and day.

Yes, the VHS and digital had a little better sound ... and in stereo (when we project these super 8 opticals, I use a Realistic Dolby surround sound processor and set it on Dolby surround and the other switch to simulated stereo, it's remarkable how good and hiss free that optical track sounds with that hooked up!) ...

But the image quality was truly magnificent!

With all the digital, you just do not get that magic.

Wonderful organic film!

Besides that, modern technology is so "transitory", here today and gone tomorrow, as others have said. My old VHS? long obselete. My laserdiscs? Obselete. DVD? Near obselete. My Blur-ray? Well hell, I've only bought a few and they really don't look much better on that sharpvision projection TV than the DVD's.

Film? In truth, it will never really be obselete, until humanity becomes obselete.

Why?

Because, we are both organic! [Big Grin]

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on September 13, 2012, 02:57 PM:

I don't think its destined to go on for too long. I love collecting film and I also agree on how there is something enriching about its organic properties. However, no new projectors are being manufactured (and not likely to be in the future). Once these old work horses of ours dwindle in supply and repairs are no longer an option its doubtful investment opportunities will continue to be available. The same probably holds true for 16mm.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on September 13, 2012, 03:03 PM:

Swatisaid!

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 13, 2012, 03:46 PM:

When you study Thermodynamics in college, a certain moment comes when the professor says that thermo's laws predict that the Universe will eventually run out of energy and will become a vast, dead, dark, cold, thin soup. A hush always comes over all the bright young guys and gals because they have been confronted with not only their own mortality but the mortality of everything...

(I'll believe it when I see it, which fortunately I never will even if it's true!)

In the 8MM forum we have our own version of this.

Here is "Is Super-8 Doomed?", comin' at'cha from exactly 9 years ago!

The End is Near!

Maybe Doug should make it a sticky!

Posted by Manuel Tapia (Member # 3249) on September 13, 2012, 03:52 PM:

I'm new in this hobby, I'm not looking to but expensive film, i'm o.k. with the 2-3 400' Reel version, and the 200' Disney cartoon. you know less tha 25 USD. i buy the projecto to see my old family film even i already have it in DVD. and the projector could look nice in my office wiht my minolta and olympus 35 Cameras. but i find the B&H that include Starwars iV, V, some cartoon, so i bought it to show my kids how the film works. I also use my VHS, Laserdisc and of course DVD and Bluray, but for some reason my kids love the Laserdisc and films, they ask me to put a movie when you was child, so i think they will continue with this movie hobby the rest of his life to show his kids, his grandfather's movies. [Big Grin]

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on September 13, 2012, 03:58 PM:

That's very commendable Manuel,and we all wish you well in
your efforts,just a word to the wise though,I would try to get
yourself a better projector that won't spoil your films.

Posted by Manuel Tapia (Member # 3249) on September 13, 2012, 04:27 PM:

LOL Hugh,
You are right, and working on that, first i'm looking for a CHINON SP-330MV in the meantime i save for a ELMO 1200, that seem is the most used and recommended here.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on September 13, 2012, 06:59 PM:

I think the fascination of film and film projectors will only increase as the years go by and digital becomes ubiquitous. The idea of seeing a film on a reel-to-reel film projector will be truly unique in a few years, if not already here. There are some really stunning super 8 prints out there, and if on Agfa or LPP they should hold up for many more decades. So i think the collectors market for used films is going to be around a long time with a huge backlog of films for all tastes.
But lets be realistic. Home projection with 1080p projectors and blu ray source material has now reached an unbelievable level of perfection, where you can get an image very close to the best professional cinema. So I think the days when super 8mm and 16mm can deliver a far better viewing experience than a projected DVD are pretty well over. But that in no way diminishes the enjoyment and unique aspects of projecting reel film. We can all live happily in both worlds for the forseeable future.

Posted by Jason Stauffacher (Member # 2672) on September 17, 2012, 01:49 AM:

From what I know, Kodak is and well sell Super8 film for a long time coming. It will not disappear. Just got some more film from them on Friday. I hate Instragram that mimics Super8. It really does not do the venue justice.

-Jason

Posted by Christian Bjorgen (Member # 1780) on September 17, 2012, 03:58 AM:

Paul Adsett:

quote:
But lets be realistic. Home projection with 1080p projectors and blu ray source material has now reached an unbelievable level of perfection, where you can get an image very close to the best professional cinema. So I think the days when super 8mm and 16mm can deliver a far better viewing experience than a projected DVD are pretty well over.

I slightly disagree with you there, Paul. Now I have used both BluRay and DVD projection alongside Super 8 and 16mm for the last three years now, and I find that with the right film, right lens and right projector, the difference; even with Super 8 compared to BluRay, isn't all that big. With DVD it's a no-brainer for my part, my Super8 copy of "Airplane!" beats my DVD copy of it any day.

16mm however, still superior in my book, I find that BluRay lacks that "little extra" in terms of colour and depth, which the 16mm projector gives me when projecting a good film.

But like you said, it is easy to just enjoy the best of both worlds [Smile]

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on September 17, 2012, 11:14 AM:

Hi Christian,

quote:
With DVD it's a no-brainer for my part, my Super8 copy of "Airplane!" beats my DVD copy of it any day

I too have super 8 films that I prefer to the DVD's. Among them Meet Me in St Louis, Grease and That's Entertainment 3. Its not that these prints are sharper and more resolved than the DVD's, because they are not. But for whatever reason they just look a lot better on super 8 - that intangible film thing. So I do agree with you that if you have a top quality print, and a top quality projector and lens, then super 8 can still give a lot of DVD's a run for their money. Blu Ray I find will inevitably beat super 8, but I do agree that even blu ray can sometimes have a kind of flat look compared to film.
Last night I projected my Super 8 print of High Society , which I have done a stereo re-record. I sat there watching the film and thought "this is really great"! [Smile]

Posted by Fabrizio Mosca (Member # 142) on September 17, 2012, 01:58 PM:

From my perspective, even if Fuji hadn't announced to cease movie film production, printing of new films is going to arrive to an end in the near future.
As far as I know, the super8 acetate printing material currently used by the lab is no longer in production and the fact that there's no (or very little) possibility to stripe estar material leads to "limited" amount of films that may still be printed today.

If you also consider that Fuji has announced the dismission of its movie section (apart from archival printing material), it means that we may rely only on Kodak for the itermediate stock to be used for printing super8 copies of new titles (I don't know if other color stocks exist).
As far as Kodak goes on with the production of movie film, we should be "safe", considering the limitation of the super8 acetate print film.
But the dismissal by Fuji doesn't imply that the movie/tv production will automatically move to Kodak stock, considering also that Kodak stock is usually more expensive (apart from having a different photographic look).
Due to this, we may have to consider that Kodak may not take advantage of Fuji decision (considering also she filed for Chapter 11).

I do really hope that it will go on for at least another 5 years, but even now (after Fuji announcement) I'm considering whether to buy some film stocks for my cameras (I use both 16mm and super8 for shooting), as I don't want to have film still to shoot and no place where to develop/print them (this mainly for 16mm as not all the labs in Italy print 16mm from negatives).
Unfortunately nobody knows what Kodak plans are for the medium period...

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on September 17, 2012, 02:08 PM:

Christian

Funny you should mention "Airplane" on Super8 I watched it just last night and was thinking then its way better to watch. I guess its the look of it on film [Cool]

much better than the dvd. I never get bored watching it "again and again" on Super8, its a brilliant digest.

Graham.

Posted by Richard Bock (Member # 1926) on September 18, 2012, 01:05 PM:

"I think the fascination of film and film projectors will only increase as the years go by and digital becomes ubiquitous."

I think Paul Adsett is correct. I'm wondering why it's so hard to find good titles these days on Ebay in Super and regular 8?

Also I want to pose the question as to the technology of digital itself. Look I'm no quibbler when it comes to Cd vs LP. or Digital vs Film Projection but when I have people over I ask is there any difference in the music playing and most will say that the Lp sounds richer in tone. An analogue vs a digital sound wave. I agree but it is really not that important.
Taking that a step further, is there any difference between a digital projection, the replacement of scan lines rapidly put together by our brains/ or Film Projection the still frame fraction of a second series, put together by our brains projected as a shadow from celluloid. My view is that digital being electronic in projection and digital in origin (bringing amazing results) is colder with no flaws. just saying.

Posted by Salvatore Romeo (Member # 2872) on September 20, 2012, 07:53 AM:

Hi
thank you to all for yours answers, but according my view point if in the future no one make new print , this hobby will became died and frustrating.For exemple if j want a copy of "aladdin" (j 'just have it [Smile]

) o terminator (derann feature) , j can't have it because no one is able to print it, and if j'm luck , j can have it if a collector sell this copy.
In the past (between 1990 an 2009) was possible have a lot of titles because derann (on request) was able to print a new fresh film ...was possible to order all disney, and many other film ......Now there are only used film !!!!
Probably j make mistake, but a future without new print is a little sad
Salvo

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on September 20, 2012, 09:06 AM:

Not be morbid about it, but even if they were still making films and equipment now none of us would be doing it forever.

Enjoy it now, while you can, as much as you can.

-don't worry about ten years from now, you or I may never see it.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on September 20, 2012, 09:54 AM:

Exactly Steve.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on September 20, 2012, 12:42 PM:

The hobby will always exist as long as there are used prints available.
For many years now, new prints have been nothing more than a little icing on the cake.

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