8mm Forum: Eumig Mark 8 "the mangler"

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Posted by Craig Jarvis (Member # 3856) on September 03, 2013, 02:14 PM:

Are Eumigs fundamentally finicky when it comes to loading the film? I have to make sure I have a ton of leader to make sure there's no disaster. About 50% of loading goes horribly wrong, bunching up at the top, not making the curve to the next sprocket directing the tape back up towards the shutter yet again! I laid the machine on it's side to observe the tape feeding process and the natural curve of the leader seems to fight the curves of the threading guides. Hence the tape wants to mangle anything going through it. I've a few tapes that threaded no problem, perfectly and can't see anything in common or not common between this issue. Any ideas folks? It almost seems like regular or old kodak leader is not pliable enough to conform to the curves set out for it? Thanks. Any input would be appreciated. (my old Bell and Howell 456 feeds tape much better but looks worse.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on September 03, 2013, 02:23 PM:

Eumig are one of the tops in 8mm. I bought my Eumig 810D in 1975 and never had one damaged Super 8 film. I had a problem when I tried to show standard 8; I don't know how to describe it in words, but from the gate is a length of black plastic, on the standard 8 it was longer than on the super 8. When I threaded a standard 8mm film it bunched up inside. I cut the plastic to the same length as the super 8 one and it threaded perfectly. I read somewhere that the distance in sound to picture separation was greater in standard 8 than super 8. I don't have any sound films in that guage, so it was not important.

If my reply is not clear I could always add photos.One picture is worth a thousand words, as they say.

Posted by Craig Jarvis (Member # 3856) on September 03, 2013, 03:06 PM:

Hi, this is a dual format super 8 and regular 8 no sound. Mark 8. No, I am unsure of what you are saying. I will post a photo as well of the various things it is doing. It has been so bad I thought. a) I had the wrong sprocket configuration. b) I had someone totally missed how the machine threaded c) had tapes with bad perforations. or all the above. Yes some tape feed just fine? Very odd. I thought maybe something sticky had been spilled on the threading area.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on September 03, 2013, 03:55 PM:

Sorry for the bad photo, but at least you will be able to see what I am referring to.
The gate on the left is Standard 8mm; below the metal is plastic, you can see a curve at the bottom. If you compare this to the Super 8 on the left you will see it is longer. It was much longer originally and prevented the film from threading, so I shortened it.

You need to check yours, also that you have the correct sprockets fitted.

Posted by Craig Jarvis (Member # 3856) on September 03, 2013, 05:03 PM:

It is a little hard to see. I see something on mine that is odd. The part at the top of the auto feed shoot doesn't seem to be lined up as good as it could be to direct the tape down the gate. There doesn't seem to be any adjustment for this either.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on September 04, 2013, 02:37 AM:

Robert's very helpful comments are not relevant to Craig's problems as Craig's projector is silent and therefore there is no need for the lower loop to vary in size. Only sound films need this separation, 18 frames for Super 8 and 56 for standard/regular 8.

Craig says that he has problems for the film to enter the gate. Perhaps the gate is not fitting correctly. The inching knob at the rear has a little spot on it, this must be a twelve o'clock position before attempting gate change procedure. This is because the claw needs to be pulled back away from the film channel. Failure to do this could result in bad fitting of the gate assembly, or, even worse, damage to the single claw. Being a dual gauge machine there is only the one claw.

It is recommended that for auto thread a decent leader is attached. The thicker white type should due the trick, but don't forget to trim it correctly. I assume Craig has the correct film cutter.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on September 04, 2013, 03:45 AM:

Maurice, I was threading a silent film at the time and it bunched up in the machine, I removed the cover and could see what was happening. I don't know if the gate on mine was wrong and somehow managed to leave the factory, but after I cut it back it worked fine.

Not able to offer any other advice on this as I have never had any other problems.

Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on September 04, 2013, 10:36 AM:

my 804D is very touchy as well the regular 8 film threads differently than super 8 the piece that robert cutoff is supposed to send the reg. 8 film around the loop that one holds for threading and the super 8 does not go that way never had a problem with my elmos.

Posted by Craig Jarvis (Member # 3856) on September 04, 2013, 12:59 PM:

Hi all, yes, my projector is a silent model. It's a Mark 8. I've never found much literature on it. In the small instruction pamphlet I got there was a huge arrow pointing at the "trim the leader in the middle of the actual perforation"? Struck me as odd but indeed there is "no" chance if it is not done this way. My problem is when the tape goes past the first sprocket it starts bunching up at the curve where is should enter the gate, if it make is past there sometimes it starts feeding it out the side before it can run through to the take up reel. It's almost as if the guides to take the sprockets out are not back in but they are. I even pulled the sprockets which I knew to be the right ones and counted! [Smile]

Posted by Craig Jarvis (Member # 3856) on September 09, 2013, 02:02 PM:

After I attached a good long portion of leader to try it again it appears the bottom sprocket starts ratcheting the tape and not flowing, just hacking at it. It's almost like it's the wrong sprocket.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on September 09, 2013, 02:48 PM:

Are you quite sure the correct sprocket is installed? It certainly sounds that it's not.

Posted by Craig Jarvis (Member # 3856) on September 10, 2013, 01:50 AM:

Yes, it is the right sprocket. Checked, rechecked. If I place a chunk of leader on so that it flexes away from the natural curve of the reel it works. Does that make sense? Is that the norm?

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on September 10, 2013, 05:05 AM:

If you are sure that you have the correct sprocket, then I suggest looking at the Sprocket Guard, is it too tight and impeding the film transport, or is it too loose and the take-up is pulling the film away from the sprocket teeth.

Posted by Craig Jarvis (Member # 3856) on September 10, 2013, 06:00 PM:

I appears I have two problems. One is the part where the tape wants to curl back up into the rear of the shutter housing. The other seems as if the take up reel is pulling on the tape.

Posted by Craig Jarvis (Member # 3856) on September 11, 2013, 09:29 PM:

Maurice, if I push on the sprocket guard in a certain way the clattering stops sometimes. As soon as I let go it begins fluttering again. The bottom guard that seems to direct the tape seems somewhat aligned wrong but I can't find any literature regarding Eumig Mark 8's anywhere. Too bad, the projector seems really solid and nice optics but something is askew.

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