8mm Forum: Too much digital on the Forum? (Topic change)

This is topic Too much digital on the Forum? (Topic change) in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on July 30, 2015, 04:27 AM:

Robert
Trying to contact you regarding the lamps you requested but I am on your ignore list?? Is there a problem?
Terry

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on July 30, 2015, 11:22 AM:

I let him know. He is not on here too often. You are welcome to join us on facebook where we are more

Search for Reel Magic and you find us

Update: He told me, he left the forum entirely.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 30, 2015, 01:48 PM:

That's a real shame that Robert felt he needed to leave the forum.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on July 30, 2015, 04:15 PM:

I hope it was not because of me! I offered him some lamps that he was looking for and he asked me to hold them for him till the end of the month. If he doesn't want them and is afraid it will upset me, please tell him it is not a problem. I would sooner give him a couple free than for it to end like this. He was a well respected Forum member and it will be sad to lose him.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 30, 2015, 04:21 PM:

Very true Terry! I am sure it isn't anything you've said or done Terry [Frown]

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on July 30, 2015, 05:41 PM:

I do believe it's more that the forum gets more digital, which is also the reason I consider this. We are having great film discussions on tje Reel Magic facebook page. Loads of people posting film rooms, films they bought and screenshots. Buying and selling we also encourage.

I do not think it's personal

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 30, 2015, 11:50 PM:

It's a valid point Vidar, but one I hope we don't loose too many people because.

At the end of the day, this should be the best place to post artefacts and instructions regarding film equipment and films themselves. It should also be the most private place unlike FB.

We just need our members, including myself I hasten to add, to discuss just film items and film related equipment in anything other than General Yak.

Hopefully that way,we keep you Vidar and every other valued film collector.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on July 31, 2015, 02:02 AM:

Vidar
I do hope it's not personal as I did nothing other than offer lamps and we agreed a price. I would not have been offended at all had he changed his mind, but it would have been nice had he informed me. To be put on an 'ignore list' makes one feel a little like an undesirable. Having said that - no hard feelings please and I do hope Robert returns to our fold. I agree with Andrew that we are a more intimate and dedicated group than anything Facebook could offer, but sometimes we do stray from the intended purpose.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 31, 2015, 02:11 AM:

The BFCC fb page is a great addition to us all but could never br considered an alternative by myself. Too many pop ups from outside nembers of fb while wanting only to talk film.

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on July 31, 2015, 05:13 AM:

I assume you have a virus, Andrew. There is no pop ups at all. And game requests is domething you just block and they won't come again. Same with friends you want to accept. Your choice who you accept.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 31, 2015, 06:49 AM:

No Vidar, no viruses.. Just peple asking about you while on fb as they can see you've logged in. Nothing wrong with that of course, after all these are your friends, just may not be convenient timing while talking and reading film related stuff.

I know you can alter your settings for this, but these settings are what i want for using FB as intended.. Just perhaps not when looking at film related matters.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on July 31, 2015, 08:49 AM:

Vidar,

I'm curious how this forum is becoming more digital.

There are the various sections for the small gauge formats, and the understanding that digital stuff goes in General Yak. The Format sections are active, and other than the "Please help me transfer my Dad's movies" conversations are all film. Even General Yak is mostly everything but video.

It's been this way over a decade now. Years ago there were questions about adding a video section, and the membership pretty unanimously voted it down (with the General Yak Compromise).

What's the difference you're seeing?

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on July 31, 2015, 11:33 AM:

Just a feeling more people thinks digital is good or even better. Comments in various threads. Since it's not only me, can't be my imagination either. Don't care to read about DVD's or Blu-Ray ramblings and how good they look. My feelings only

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on July 31, 2015, 12:13 PM:

I think conversation like that has been ongoing pretty much since the start. It's to be expected.

I'd say it's very possible to enjoy both technologies on their merits. Personally I have digital video pouring into the house over a hundred channels and 24 hours a day, and yet those few minutes when the house gets quiet and I project a reel are always a treat.

If would have been so easy back in VHS days when the image was plainly poorer. I went to a meting of The Sons of the Desert a few years ago and they were large-screen projecting a VHS tape of "Way Out West".

-it was almost painful!

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on July 31, 2015, 04:46 PM:

Both this forum and Facebook are good, there are some amazing 8mm film making stuff on Facebook.

Heaps to look at on "Facebook" and join in if you want...my daughter says I am boring because of all the film stuff I put on [Big Grin]

...but its fun all the same, and through it I have sent photos of the old cinema etc to those I once worked with....its all good stuff. [Wink]

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on July 31, 2015, 05:13 PM:

I must admit I got fed up with Facebook a couple of months back and have deleted my account. So much nonsense and endless notifications and trivia... People posting pictures of their lunch. So I don't even look at it anymore and what a relief! Quite a process to delete yourself too, they really don't want you to go.

I hear Facebook and Twitter are going to merge. It's going to be called Twitface.

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on July 31, 2015, 05:33 PM:

That depends on what you do. I do not get much I don't want. Block games, that's the first thing. Be friends with only the ones you want. Met a lot of nice reel people that's on my passion level.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on July 31, 2015, 06:11 PM:

I totally agree Vidar

Through "Facebook" I have caught up with people I once worked with in Aviation and lost touch, family overseas. Its not all about baked potato and what you had for breakfast [Big Grin]

as some here have suggested. Anyway what's wrong with a baked potato. I had some with cheese in it the other night and it was yum [Big Grin]

Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on July 31, 2015, 07:22 PM:

Great points, Steve Klare, regarding General Yak, etc., and I agree --

Vidar, why is it not a good thing that some people think "digital is good or even better"? I enjoy digital and all of its qualities, but that doesn't mean that I'm getting rid of my Super 8mm and 16mm films. Just because there's a welcomed new method that allows a hobbyist to screen literally any movie he/she wants, rather than just be limited to the titles that have been legitimately released on Super 8 over the past 50 years, is not a bad thing in my mind.

To each his own, but after 40-plus years in the hobby, I've found that life is too short to employ a mindset that any new movie-screening technologies are bad simply because they're new and different. Let's enjoy it all, I say!! 😃 Keeping an open mind will only help the longevity of this hobby.

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on July 31, 2015, 07:32 PM:

As stated somewhere before, I am on the film forum and my interests are film, not video. There's DVD forums if I want that and would go there for discussing video.

This is exactly the feeling I get here, not true film lovers. I too have digital, but film is my passion and we are enjoying film talk on the facebook pages. And for me, this is more apparent now than two years ago.

I am done with this discussion now, let's agree to disagree

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on July 31, 2015, 08:27 PM:

I sense just a hint of orthodoxy here!

I show films, some of which I made myself, on projectors that work because I repaired them. My sound is through a sound system parts of which I built myself from my own design. I listen through a set of speakers that I re-foamed because the woofers were blown. I love every bit of it because is distinctly mine.

Still the same, there are times it's just nice to lay on the couch and watch a disk.

-heretic though I may be!

This is a hobby. Let's never let it become so important we need to start figuring out who the true believers are.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on July 31, 2015, 09:46 PM:

I think Vidar may have picked on some bad vibes from "The Jungle Book" that was on sale here on the forum.

Instead of letting the seller get on with the film sale, the topic did move onto a comparison of the Blu-ray, and in general the Derann features such as "The Lion King" and how better the Blu-ray was.

Those comments are not helping the seller of "The Jungle Book".

Graham. [Smile]

Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on August 01, 2015, 03:17 AM:

It is great having a "general Yak" section in which to post...it means exactly what it says.."general Yak". Each section has it's place - that has got to be good. It allows variety yet still keeps thing in their place. [Smile]

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on August 01, 2015, 08:10 AM:

I don't see this forum or Small Format going more digital particularly. There is a lot going on with new stuff for cine in fact like the Van Eck 3D printing of parts, including the green guides for Elmo and Paul Browning is doing a project to make brand new xenon reflectors for the GS xenon. ( I'm in for two of those.) Loads of eBay listings for film and equipment. I've spent a packet this year on a Pedestal projector, new unicol professional stands and two great NOS Elmo 16mm lenses. I'm committed. Or is it 'should be'. Cine is well and truly alive round my place. I do also have a video projector and it shouldn't be wrong to talk about video sometimes. It might be different if guys who were 'only' video guys kept butting in but the video talk is all from people who do both, I think.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on August 01, 2015, 10:29 AM:

The original topic was about Robert's presence on the Forum. He has made his decision not to participate and I will miss his posts.

The feeling that there are too many threads dedicated to the digital side is very subjective. The General Yak area was started in November 2004 to accommodate requests by members who wanted to discuss other topics with the same group that they enjoyed talking about film with. I think it has worked out very well. I'm not particularly interested in collecting digital media, however I have no desire to limit those topics as long as they take place in the General Yak section. Having said that, I'm sorry I did not catch the off topic postings in the "Jungle Book" sale thread. Wrong place, wrong topic for those posts. I'm glad to see the film was successfully sold.

It is an interesting discussion, so I will be changing this topic title to "Too much digital on the Forum?"

Doug

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 01, 2015, 10:50 AM:

What is sad is not that there is too much discussion about digital but too many members recently promoting it like if they had the purpose to kill film by comparing both media and seeing only big adavanges for digital and all the possible defaults for film. As Vidar said it is a film forum so if people prefer digital, why posting here ? I have nothing (even if it doesnt' interest myself) against discussions about the quality of a recently released blu ray or a question the use of a digital projector but why denigrate film on a film forum ? That said, I'm not a Facebook fan and I prefer the forum. There are great people here !

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 01, 2015, 11:01 AM:

I think a good rule of thumb is the topic of a sales thread is the specific film or machine for sale itself, not how great the 25 disk DVD set was or how you think your cousin's old neighbor had one of those projectors and it scratched everything he ran (-then again, he wasn't ever the brightest bulb in the chandelier, was he?)

25 disk Laurel and Hardy DVD set in General Yak?

-fine.

25 disk Laurel and Hardy DVD set glued into a review of a Blackhawk Super-8 print?

-nope!

It's just so easy to drift like this instead of applying the brakes, taking the exit and starting over again.

-but this is why we have these topic sections, not just so you don't pollute my discussion of the 60hz. notch filter I built into my sound system with your 1080i ultra-indignifier, but so if you want to read about the 25 disk Laurel and Hardy DVD set you'll be able to find it in General Yak where it's supposed to be.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on August 01, 2015, 05:05 PM:

Steve
You Are absolutely right! and Doug is wrong! The topic should not be changed - It is for the individual to start a new topic. Otherwise it is imposible to retro find answers to questions on any particular subject. The fact that a member has left the Forum should not affect the decision to change the topic. The problem remains however that members 'Drift', as Steve rightly points out, from the original topic to totally irrevelant matters. That is what Doug should address.

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on August 01, 2015, 06:11 PM:

I read this forum a lot and I don't see posts 'denigrating' film or anything like that, far from it. Certainly not in my posts and if people think that they are reading them wrong. I do all kinds of media as I've said before. It isn't an either/or for me.

[ August 07, 2015, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: Steven J Kirk ]

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on August 01, 2015, 08:08 PM:

I`ll be upfront here and say I think Digital movie viewing is one of the best things to happen regarding watching films in the home, And after all its about appreciating the actual film itself.

I watched some cracking foreign films lately and Netflix and Amazon via My LCD projector and they were amazing. Not the image as such, the actual films themselves, and much added to as watched 10 feet wide.

But this is a forum full of like minded people who love real films first and foremost, but then do enjoy Digital as well.

Gernally speaking we are all getting on a bit though and the hobby needs some new people, younger people to get on board, and they may trip in to our hobby from a digital point.

Now, unless you have unlimited funds you can`t really have a good enough turn round on real film, and a few of us still have kids as well, me as I became a parent later in life.

I don`t think the film side of things here has anything to worry about at all and the general yak section really makes the forum more interesting, and not really because of digital particularly.

A broader spread with more interest is more likely to keep people coming here. The magic of real film is in the middle of it and the driving force, but I think the magic of that is strong enough survive a few digital based posts etc.

One of the nicest posts in general Yak lately was about real film, sadly its demise on 35mm, but still a great post.

Also lets not forget that families and people with a digital projector are now again sitting down together to watch a film, lights off, sharing the experiance etc, its great.

There is a core of regular people on here who love real film, and its just a cracking little forum.

For all its negative effects here and there, Digital has actually increased interest in film watching, even in real film. You look on any Blu Ray forum etc and film grain, origional film elements are talked about regarding HD etc in a way they simply weren`t a few years ago.

Don`t worry anyone on here regarding real film, its what it is, its here to stay but everything moves along a bit as time goes on as well.

Best Mark.

Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on August 01, 2015, 08:32 PM:

Steven and Mark, I agree with your thoughtful (and interesting) comments. I, too, don't see anyone denigrating film on this forum -- if anything concerns me about the hobby lately is the strict adherence to dogma and purist for purist's sake that some in the hobby expect as it relates to "film." That certainly will ensure that the hobby won't have much years left in it by resulting in running off any prospective new entrants.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on August 01, 2015, 10:58 PM:

I totally agree with Mark's comments. Digital projection in the home is a wonderful thing. We now have picture quality and sound quality as good as any professional digital cinema, and tens of thousands of films to choose from. My wife and I watch a digital projected move about three times a week, and it is always an enjoyable experience. The PQ and sound is for the most part amazing, and even some of the streamed movies off YouTube can make for a good viewing. The Super 8mm will always be there for me to enjoy its particular magic, and yes Disney S8 prints are IMO better than the blu ray's. So for me, its a great time to be a home showman.

Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on August 01, 2015, 11:05 PM:

Agree Paul -- I can't think of a better time to be in the hobby!

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on August 02, 2015, 01:18 AM:

Steven
As a relatively new member of this Forum I was unaware that Robert Crewdson had been banned and I have no idea what for. I have to admit that this puts a completely different light on my opinion. As my wife would say 'it's not often I'm right but it looks like I'm wrong again!' Lol

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 02, 2015, 06:05 AM:

I may be wrong but as far as I have read on here, Robert left and certainly wasn't banned from the forum, was he??

I certainly would like to hope not!
Robert has been a true gentleman throughout my time on the forum and his posts always make interesting reading to me.
His comments of a negative persuasion to some were only ever due to his passion for real film on a real film forum.

He he has actually been banned on here I believe that would be a complete injustice given some of the vile highly personal rants I have seen initially posted on here, only for those members "to still enjoy retaining their membership status on here.

Here's hoping Robert is still accepted here and soon he reconsiders his decision and posts again one day in the future!

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 02, 2015, 06:19 AM:

Robert Crewdson isn't banned here. It takes some doing to get banned and he hasn't "done".

Further up in this thread Vidar said he's just voluntarily stopped posting, and theorizes it's because we've gone "too digital", although he admits he's not sure about that.

So this is basically the Seinfeld Thread: we haven't gone digital and nobody's been banned.

-a show about nothing!

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 02, 2015, 06:37 AM:

This is the kind of message I would put in the category "denigrating films vs digital" (it doesn't matter who wrote it, I just take this as an example to make things clearer and I don't want-I do insist on that-to blame anyone) : "i love blu ray. i have several steelbook editions. after years of collecting 8mm and 16mm i am now able to watch favourite films in great great quality. no worries re damage scratches fade etc. and excellent price too.god knows it beats me some of the quality some people will endure on 8 and 16. but everyone to their own.gone are my days of recieving dodgy prints and spending a small fortune for the privledge. had enough of that thank you very much. some really nice artwork on steelbooks so i understand people wanting and collecting them.some fabulous titles available too."

Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on August 02, 2015, 06:50 AM:

I'm a dyed in the wool 16mm enthusiast and have been for 40 odd years. I'm delighted that blu-ray is around because I can own a personal copy of something that on 16mm, a. Is rare or non existent, and b. Is probably beyond my price range. Isn't it first about films that we all enjoy and secondly how that gets to the screen? Last night I ran a reel of various items including trailers, newsreels and a serial. This was followed by 'Gravity' in 3D on a 55" screen. Both are what they are and both were enjoyed equally. Let's not go up the road of comparisons. It's totally futile. Let's enjoy the film experience (however it's produced) and be grateful we can enjoy both.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 02, 2015, 06:50 AM:

I couldn't agree more Dominique and I enjoy projecting blu ray as much as the next man!

Good news Steve thanks for clearing that one up.
As you say, Lord only knows what level of sin you would have to commit to actually be banned on here. Thankfully this previous post straight out of the rumour mill was just that..an untrue rumour. [Smile]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 02, 2015, 06:57 AM:

Modern video is the chance for people to enjoy motion pictures in their home. It is cheap, it is easy, it is reliable, it is readily available.

-all great things.

What it lacks is challenge. My son has been using a DVD player since he was in pre-school. The picture is great because the picture is always great. Every department store, supermarket, convenience store and rummage sale has disks by the ton.

So this is a wonderful consumer medium but it's a little light on the hobby side: nothing to build, nothing to find, not really anything to maintain or repair.

There's nothing wrong with this by the way. There comes a moment when it's getting really late and I just can't face pulling down the screen, finding films, threading up the projector(s), turning on the amp watching the film(s) and then putting it all back.

-how nice to flop on the couch and grab a remote! (-or just read a book.)

It's just when I really need that shot of endorphins, this is just too passive to do it.

It explains why a guy drives past a supermarket on the way to and then from the lake to spend the day fishing. There's a respectable chance he'll return home without a fish, and the fish at the market are perfectly good. They are also a lot cheaper when you factor in the boat, trolling motor and fishing tackle.

-but the fish is not really the point: it's the challenge.

(Worse comes to worse he can stop by the market on the way home, maybe buy a steak instead...)

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 02, 2015, 07:05 AM:

Same here,one press of a remote control button for the screen, one to switch on the beamer, a few more presses for the Blu Ray player and the amp configurations, then sit back and enjoy!

Fabulous entertainment,but seriously lacking in anything tactile and not much of an actual hobby compared to the rewards of maintaining pieces of electro mechanical engineering genius and works of art on something actually real called film.

Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on August 02, 2015, 07:25 AM:

some nice comments here. i respect anyone who collects, as they call it, real film. you dabble in what interests you . but i still do not know why some (real film) collectors feel so threatened by digital. i know its human nature to defend something we believe in. but lighten up. as i have said before its a hobby. an interest. we should welcome all formats and just enjoy the big screen experience.after all is that not what its about.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 02, 2015, 07:40 AM:

We are all suitably light hearted Paul [Big Grin]

But no...for me at least, watching what appears on the screen is only part of our hobby,however I have never felt once threatened by my Black plastic box bolted to the ceiling and I doubt my Beaulieu ever will either no matter how often the said white or black or even silver box is superceded. [Smile]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 02, 2015, 10:15 AM:

Can we emphasize on "collector" to describe who we are?

Similar to VW Buggy collector they are not driving this buggy everyday nor thinking owning a new VW is a sin. So although tla collector rides a new VW, he/she will not get rid their old VW buggy.

I am not going to debate between (the quality of) digital vs film but it is already proven, we collected VHS/Betamax, then LD, later DVD and now BluRay...they are going to rubbish bin eventually when the new format arrive.

DVDs (120 minutes F/L, color full, stereo, scratch free) are now sold from 50 cents to a dollar at thrift stores.

What do you price for your 200' (6 minute, color fade, mono sound, scratchy) of Tom & Jerry? At least $10.

I am using these digital formats at home for my daily entertainment but collecting super 8mm film for me is more precious since they have a long shelf live.

With all due respects, my VHS/Betamax have gone somewhere as well as my DVDs. My LDs are still here with me due to the size eqv. with LPs (my other collection), it looks nice to see them sit side by side. But I am not going to collect BluRay (read: collecting not watching), just rent or buy second hand for one time used as disposable item.

cheers,

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on August 02, 2015, 11:16 AM:

Well here's another way to look at it. In April my wife and I drove about 1,000 miles to go to CineSea. Would we have done that for a DVD convention? [Big Grin]

Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on August 02, 2015, 11:33 AM:

never heard of a DVD convention.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 02, 2015, 11:34 AM:

I was actually relieved to find out you drove, Paul.

-I can't imagine getting that Eumig through Security at the airport!

"OK, now start over...What is this thing again?"

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on August 02, 2015, 11:37 AM:

Terry,

As I wrote in the email I sent you before I changed the title, the topic change was done because:

1. Your question was answered in the second post. Robert has decided not to participate anymore.

2. This thread had taken on another life. If it was merely one or two replies I would have suggested starting a new thread, however 19 posts concerning "digitalization" had been posted. Even with my super moderator powers, I am unable to relocate large quantities of posts to a new thread.

Members look at topic headings to determine if they are of interest to them. The previous title would have given no clue as to what this thread had become. I stand by my decision to change the title.

Doug

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 02, 2015, 11:43 AM:

This thread is a tribute to off-topic.

It has many topics and maybe even none.

By any chance does anybody here enjoy mountain biking? I think I'd like to go there next!

I brought mine to CineSea last time: is this an adequate segue?

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 02, 2015, 11:52 AM:

Paul's tale of 1000 mile drive to go and visit the U.S. convention and like minded folks says it all to me regarding the dedication felt by some collectors associated with our hobby.

Maurice is another fine example of the dedication expressed each time he does a 6 hour round trip to have his wonderful machines serviced by his preferred engineer.

Two fabulous examples of a level of dedication unlikely to be ever seen in the future generations in association with anything manufactured in the modern era connecting household AV / home cinema software or hardware.

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on August 02, 2015, 12:21 PM:

I don`t think any digital chatting etc is going to change the feeling people on here have with real film.

Or eat away at the daft and even selfish, sometimes, compulsions it puts in to us.

I think you can describe digital film watching as a great experiance, and real film watching and collecting as a nieche hobby.

I never thought I would get away with films on memory stick, now I think its very handy for HD trailers etc.

I also never liked the idea of online streamimg of films etc, now I throroughly enjoy projecting them, with great choice and content, in great qaulity.

Even though in dire need of a decent NT1 belt this weekend, I`ve already had 2 real film sessions ( and 2 digital ).

I think it was a touch of the film compulsions got me with Steelbooks, and a real appreciation of them too.

This great forum is still my number one place to visit, easily beating even ebay which has its own interesting draws.

Funnily enough I think maybe the very quick demise of most of the large format film, has actually caused much more of the information about it, interest in it, and a desire to keep real film than if it had been a longer more drawn out thing.

One thing is for sure. There will still be plenty of real film ramblings going on here tens years or more.

Best Mark.

Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on August 02, 2015, 12:35 PM:

I eschewed the earlier formats (e.g., VHS, Beta, LaserDisc, etc.) because I didn't feel that they came close to a good film print (when one was available). I only made the financial investment once my professional eye (NOT my hobbyist eye) told me that digital had advanced to the point quality-wise to make the financial investment worth it. And I don't regret that decision at all. The number of movies that I can now screen from making that investment is absolutely staggering -- and the jaw-dropping quality that has come with it.

However, for me it's always been about the viewing experience -- not the "touching," "feeling'" and "smelling" (?!?) of film. Am I keeping my films and projectors? -- you betcha'! I've collected films for most of my life, and have devoted my professional career to working in communications, which has included work in BOTH film and video airing on national and international broadcast networks. I lend that same professional eye to my hobbyist pursuits. As a result, I take image and sound quality very seriously, with nostalgia not playing any role in that whatsoever.

I think a healthy dose of perspective is sorely needed here, as well as taking the dogmatic blinders off.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 02, 2015, 12:57 PM:

I always wonder if part of the allure for us is the fact that to most people film presentation has become "obsolete".

Yes: I did this back in the days when it was still state of the art and I enjoyed it back then too, but now what we're doing is also keeping part of cultural and technological history alive. We haven't caught up with the tube radio and victrola guys yet, but that's exactly what they are doing too.

Every so often we even shake it up a little: show animation done on a computer five years ago on a projector made in the 1970s.

-Despite what my achy left knee keeps telling me, we defy time.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 02, 2015, 01:16 PM:

It seems from the different points of vue given in the comments made in this thread and others (in which digital was discussed) that there are two kind of members of this forum : people who just want to Watch a movie and don't really care about the medium and those who feel the experience is totally different between a film and another media. The first category seems to be more and more attracted by digital and less by film while the second category see no reason to give up film. So some take pleasure watching movie and others enjoy all what goes with celluloid projections. Probably some people from the "digital group" don't understand how some people from the "real film category" can spend time and money for films and material when you can easily project a blu ray or a computer fils and some people from the "film group" don't understand how you can feel the same pleasure with a memory stick in your hand instead of a reel ready to be put on a movie projector. These discussions can be endless...

Posted by Paul Suchy (Member # 80) on August 02, 2015, 01:44 PM:

Right, Dominique, the debate will continue. The sterile image I see now at the theatres these days doesn't make me want to have digital projection at home. I have to check with our local revival house in order to verify 35mm or digital projection when they are playing one of my favorites. I enjoy running film, my friends enjoy watching film, and all the hassle that goes with it is ultimately satisfying to me (even the times when I'm trying to repair a bad splice or dealing with a warped print). I can choose to read what I read here and skim over someone's latest rave over a Blu Ray, but I would rather this forum be about film as there are other venues for just about anything else. And I really don't care what anyone had for dinner, but I am absolutely thrilled to hear all about what they ran through the projector!

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on August 02, 2015, 01:54 PM:

Dom
You are so right! It seems that some members are content with the modern formats. To me I don't understand why they don't just switch on a big screen TV and watch a film on the many subscription film channels available. Not that that is a criticism, it's still watching a film and I do it frequently, but it doesn't compare with our hobby with celluloid. I have to admit that when members start talking DVD, BlueRay and suchlike, (what is Steelbook anyway?) I feel a mist coming down and just skip the posting. It simply doesn't interest me. The reason I joined the Forum was to hear from like minded members whose interest and experience is with celluloid, film projectors and equipment. I don't think I'm alone in that perspective.

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on August 02, 2015, 08:52 PM:

Here is a thing. I only project DVD/Blu-Ray. I NEVER watch a disc through a TV. Does this make me a true believer or a heretic??? I keep TV and Cinema separate. My front room is all projection, no TV screens or computers allowed. It is a Cinema and is 'playback' only. 16mm, Super 8 and video projection of DVD and Blu-Ray. Elsewhere in the house of course I have computers and TVs. We all have our 'purist' rules and that is mine.

On the subject of 'denigrating' film I don't consider that talking about having been ripped off, or the many frustrations of getting scratched films, faded films, etc is denigration of film itself. We all have had bad experiences in the hobby. It is more like frustration with PEOPLE who con each-other. Some of whom are fellow film-collectors.

Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on August 03, 2015, 01:22 AM:

An excellent mature thread with good observation and argument.

It illustrates again the many facets of enjoying a movie - big screen whatever the format and all that they encompass.

It also absolutely proves the need for "general Yak" and other individual sections...each has a right to their point whatever their specific interest.

Mark [Smile]

Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on August 03, 2015, 01:41 AM:

i could not have said it better myself.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on August 03, 2015, 04:22 AM:

I have to say that I don't like to hear this 'true believer' or 'heretic' nonsense. It is divisive and unnecessary. We are a Band of Brothers - Good Samaritans - that come to the aid of others in distress - and it's lovely to see. We just have different viewpoints. Nothing wrong with that.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on August 03, 2015, 06:49 AM:

It's certainly sad to see members leave. Personally, I didn't see any offensive comments over the whole digital thing, but if someone feels offended then I guess they have been.

I know some people have been downright offensive here in the past and duly removed, but it's a shame that someone feels the need to leave over differing viewpoints.

As I've said in another thread, I think this is one of the most civilised forums out there and I value the experience of everyone here.

I wonder if I wouldn't have given up on super 8 by now had I not discovered this place of like-minded folk 10 or so years ago.

Certainly, I would feel a lot more lonely with my "old" films and projectors.

When my Beaulieu went through a recent set of breakdowns, who but you guys would listen or be interested?

I love watching movies to the highest quality, but I love "real" film too.

Group hug, group hug... [Razz]

Posted by Paul Suchy (Member # 80) on August 03, 2015, 07:46 AM:

Rob makes and excellent point that I tend to forget: we all commiserate over our film related troubles and here we can get a sympathetic ear. Hug right back to you, Rob.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 03, 2015, 11:46 AM:

Here here, Robs a great guy and always comes to anyone's aid in their hour of need. I have a lot to thank him for over these past few years as I have with many members on here.

Long live our wonderful forum!

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on August 03, 2015, 05:53 PM:

Its Brad Miller wonderful forum...don't forget the chap that runs it. [Wink]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 03, 2015, 10:31 PM:

Brad & Doug indeed do a superb job of providing us all and indeed moderating for us all, this wonderful forum. But I feel whoever contributes to it has the right to call it theirs or ours by way of expressing their association to it Graham.

[ August 04, 2015, 04:08 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 03, 2015, 10:31 PM:

Deleted due to a repeat post off..yep, you've guessed it, a phone! [Mad]

[ August 04, 2015, 02:06 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on August 04, 2015, 01:23 AM:

Quote..."but I feel whoever contributes to it has the right to call it theirs or ours by way of expressing their association to it"

Nope... I certainly don't feel that way, although I might contribute from time to time, the bottom line is, as a member, this forum does not belong to me or that I should feel in any way have a right to it through having a association with it. Its Brads site he pays for the running and upkeep.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 04, 2015, 01:33 AM:

Well yes that's as maybe Graham, but it wouldn't be much of a film forum if it was just Brad posting to Doug, then Doug posting straight back to Brad, would it?

May as well send a text or use a walkie talkie in that scenario.

I was merely pointing out Graham, by terming this wonderful forum "ours" , that it is something by association that you feel you belong to, just as in the same way I term Manchester City as "my" club, but of course it isnt, as I am clearly not a filthy rich Arabian oil tycoon!

Haven't we all at one time or another termed our place of work as an employee "our place"?
Once again, of course it isn't littererally ours, just a term of association.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on August 04, 2015, 02:52 AM:

I understand what Andrew is saying, but we shouldn't forget that it is Doug and Brad's stage and we are merely the players. Of course we may like to assert our influence on the rules and parameters, but at the end of the day any decision falls to these two guys and we should respect that and be mindful of their status.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on August 04, 2015, 03:32 AM:

Never really thought of the places of employment I have worked as "our place" the last was the cinema and now its a retail store, prior to that two airlines, both of which were really good to work for, except in the end they made us all redundant [Roll Eyes]

The way I look at things, is we all get paid to do a job, to pay the bills and to do it "as best" you can. The people I have worked with in the past have certainly done that, but as an employee to think "our place"...I might sound a bit cynical but I don't see things as "our place" the shareholders yes... the people that own it yes... employee sorry no.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 04, 2015, 03:53 AM:

Ok Graham, I shall keep the analogy strictly to "my" football club with the forum then.
Its such a shame you cannot see what I'm getting at with this one. I am certain I cannot be alone on this one. [Confused]

Wish I had £1 for anytime anyone ever asked me..
"Hey mate, got any jobs going at "your" place". [Big Grin]

And of course Terry, all what you're speaking of goes without saying. [Razz]

Posted by Martin Jones (Member # 1163) on August 04, 2015, 04:03 AM:

Can we just let the endless repetition, and lack of hope of reaching any real conclusion in this thread, go...... before the number of posts reaches "infinity" or the Server runs out of memory?

Brad.. surely 'nuff said?

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 04, 2015, 04:34 AM:

Graham, I don't know in English but in French it is current to use "our" to refer to a place we feel we belong to even if we have no official rights on it. I'm teacher and with my colleagues we say "our school". Like with my neighboors we say "our area". I say "my country" even if I'm not the king of Belgium :-)

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 04, 2015, 04:42 AM:

Quite the same here as well Dominique. Thanks for clearing that one up. [Smile]

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on August 04, 2015, 06:34 PM:

A great many fine comments here with which I tend to agree rather strongly. Digital stuff belongs in an occasional Off Topic thread. Paul Adsett has done a wonderful job of modeling for us a classy way to keep the best of both worlds happy, side-by-side. Hijacking film threads about digital versions is just not cool.

Additional discussion and unofficial voting at the other "New Section for Digital" thread.

I notice that Vidar hasn't been back on this topic since he decided to agree to disagree, which is a shame because there's more sympathy to his love of film here than he's giving everyone credit for.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 04, 2015, 06:44 PM:

Here here Bill. If anyone is a true advocate to real film, then it has to be Vidar!

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