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Posted by James Wilson (Member # 4620) on April 22, 2017, 06:24 AM:
 
Hi,
I wonder if anyone can help me?
I'm looking to buy a Wolverine
cinefilm digitiser here in the UK.
Is there anyone who can point me
in the right direction as to where
to get one.
Many Thanks,
James.
 

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Posted by Gary Sayers (Member # 5545) on April 23, 2017, 06:23 AM:
 
I am in the UK and I ordered one from Amazon.com earlier this month, which came to a grand total of £331. This includes all postage and import duties.

Because it is not in stock for a few weeks, I checked today what it would work out at with the current exchange rates in case I could get it at a better price.

I found that if ordering today, the total cost would be £293.79!!

I promptly cancelled my original order then re-ordered at the new price.

I think this is a great price, particularly when considering that a third-hand machine that I bid for on ebay recently sold for £226.07 plus £10 postage!

I reckon that after I have digitised all my films, I could sell the machine on ebay for at least £200 (maybe more with a few bidders).

Having said that, I would probably hang on to it - sold too many items I now regret letting go.

If you order from Amazon.com, make sure you have the Amazon currency converter enabled at the checkout (doesn't effect the price but displays it all in £s).
 

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Posted by James Wilson (Member # 4620) on April 23, 2017, 06:40 AM:
 
Many thanks Gary, the only problem is I can't
find it listed on Amazon.
Regards,
James.
 

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Posted by Gary Sayers (Member # 5545) on April 23, 2017, 07:34 AM:
 
Hi James,

Here's the link:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KA32HH0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Gary
 

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Posted by James Wilson (Member # 4620) on April 23, 2017, 09:10 AM:
 
Hi Gary,

I got it for £293.79 thanks for the tip.
Can I ask what programm your going to edit with
(slow down) the movie, I've already got Nero 2015 Classic is this good enough?
Kind Regards,
James.
 

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Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on April 23, 2017, 09:25 AM:
 
I was all ready to "buy it now" for $298.+ $19.84 shipping on eBay, but after reading all the negative reviews as well as the positive reviews on Amazon, by verified buyers, I decided not to...
 

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Posted by Gary Sayers (Member # 5545) on April 23, 2017, 10:27 AM:
 
Joe - It's currently $299.99 on Amazon and I guess that has free postage in the U.S.
Also, with Amazon's return policy, if you are not happy with it's performance, you can return it for a full refund.

James - The only editing software I have is 'Sony Vegas'. It will slow or speed up footage but I really have no idea how to use it though (can't get my head around computer editing and really don't like it).

My Son uses it so I will have to get him to help me with it when I'm ready.
 

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Posted by James Wilson (Member # 4620) on April 23, 2017, 11:37 AM:
 
Hi Gary
I,m in the same boat, my grandson has more idea than me, I'v always used a Casablanca for all my video editing but this is
mpeg2, so I'll have to start learning all over again.
Regards,
James.
 

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Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on April 23, 2017, 04:04 PM:
 
Hi James,

I ordered mine - REbranded Somikon - at PEARL.DE for euro 399. Shipping date 27.04.

http://www.pearl.de/mtrkw-8074-film-scanner-fuer-super-8-und-8-mm.shtml

Perhaps it's worth mentioning. Good luck!

Cheers

[ April 24, 2017, 05:36 AM: Message edited by: Berend De Meyer ]
 

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Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on April 24, 2017, 12:18 AM:
 
Is Sumikon a rebadged of Wolverine?
 

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Posted by James Wilson (Member # 4620) on April 24, 2017, 07:46 AM:
 
Hi Berend,

Is this machine NTSC? or PAL.
Regards,
James.
 

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Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on April 24, 2017, 08:25 AM:
 
Hi James and all others that are interested!

Google Translated Specifications:

==========

HD-XL film scanner for easy digitization of Super 8 and 8 mm films (switchable)
High-resolution 1/3 "CMOS sensor with 3.53 megapixels
Scan resolution: 1440 x 1080 pixels at 30 frames / sec.
Stand-alone recording: saves directly to SD (HC) card up to 32 GB, no PC necessary
Recording format: MP4 video, no recording of the audio track
Automatic exposure, manual correction (-2.0 to +2.0 EV), automatic white balance
Light source: LED lighting
Built-in TFT LCD display: 6 cm / 2.4 "
USB 2.0 port for data transfer to the computer
TV output: PAL / NTSC
For Super 8 and Normal 8 film coils (adapter 8/13 mm included) up to 17.8 cm / 7 "
Automatic stop at the end of the movie
Fast rewinding (requires about 2 minutes for 10 minutes of film)
Integrated carrying handle
Connections: TV-Out (3.5 mm jack), mini USB, slot for SD (HC) cards up to 32 GB, power supply
Supports Windows XP / Vista / 7/8 / 8.1 / 10, OS X from 10.7.3
Power supply: 12 V via 230 V power supply (cable length: 1.2 m)
Measurements: 32 x 18,5 x 11 cm, weight: 1,5 kg
Filmcanner including Film-Leerspule, Film-coil-adapters, spacer-rings for the film guide, power supply, video cable (3.5 mm jack to RCA, 150 cm), USB cable (mini USB to USB, 100 cm) And German instructions.

==========

Cheers
 

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Posted by James Wilson (Member # 4620) on April 24, 2017, 09:04 AM:
 
Hi Berend,

I chequed it out, but it still outputs
at 30fps so still needs to be slowed down.
But it does stop automatically at film end.
Many Thanks,
James.
 

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Posted by Gary Sayers (Member # 5545) on April 24, 2017, 12:31 PM:
 
The early specs that were published in the user manual for version 1 of the Wolverine also stated 1080p.

The more up to date manual now states 720p resolution (which is correct), so I wonder if it's the same for the Somikon and the 1080p claim?
 

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Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on April 24, 2017, 01:07 PM:
 
I don't understand the reason why Wolverine (or Somikon) decided to set 30 fps instead of 24 fps or 18 fps which is the standard speed of super 8mm? So we don't need to slow it down after scanning.

Or even a switchable machine between 18, 24 or 30 fps!! We are now living in the computer technology which I believe an easy program for that.

Anyone know the reason?
 

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Posted by Ty Reynolds (Member # 5117) on April 24, 2017, 03:09 PM:
 
Likely because it is a frame by frame scanner. Each frame of film is scanned as a discreet image. The resulting mp4 file is based on NTSC, so 30 fps. Even the more sophisticated film scanners require a processing step that converts the scanned images to the appropriate playback speed.
 

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Posted by Gary Sayers (Member # 5545) on April 24, 2017, 04:02 PM:
 
In reply to a comment on one of their youtube videos, Wolverine data state '....we can only run the video at 30fps because there is no video chips available that can play at less then 30fps.'

That was posted 7 months ago.

With regard to the 1080p/720p question - on the same video's comments from 6 months ago, they state '8mm film is very low resolution film. When we scanned it and produced a 1080p videos, it shows a lot of missing pixels or grainy image. For that reason we reduce the output to 720p.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jzXrR1Dmfw
 

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Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on April 24, 2017, 08:13 PM:
 
Oh, come on. Nearly 300 quid for that when, with a bit of patience, I can capture and digitise old films using free software by projecting on to a white card.
 

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Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on April 24, 2017, 11:21 PM:
 
Will, projecting to a white card definetly will produce flickers and (sometimes) hot spot.

Scanning is the best method of transfering.

Remember the old animation movie when cartoonist drawing picture frame by frame, that is how scanning method working now.
 

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Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on April 25, 2017, 05:17 AM:
 

quote:

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Hi Berend,

I checked it out, but it still outputs
at 30fps so still needs to be slowed down.
But it does stop automatically at film end.
Many Thanks,
James.

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Hi James, your most welcome! Note that this deck is only a film to digital scanner and that's exactly what I'll use it for. Of course post-production is absolutely needed to get the best finished video output possible:
- change fps for all footage depending on used film camera and thus fps
- tweak white points for different scenes
- overall picture Q tweaks as noise reduction etc

So when you need a good Q output 720/1080 there's still a lot of work to be done in post. But, those films will fade to dust anyway. So for me it's now the time to act and get all our family films scanned and converted! Better safe than sorry is my motto at this point!

Cheers
 

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Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on April 25, 2017, 08:16 AM:
 
Winbert, I got around the flicker problem by using an old analogue video camcorder, feeding the output directly into a digital converter and capturing the results to a hard disk. I used Virtualdub to edit the captured footages, saving them as AVI files. I even used a battered old Eumig 501 for the projector. Of course, frame by frame capture would give the best results but at a cost. The videos I've produced using old gear I had anyway are perfectly acceptable for home use and for uploading to YouTube.
 

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Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 25, 2017, 10:15 AM:
 
using the projection to a small screen method, I was able to eliminate nearly all flicker by slowing the shutter speed on my Sony camcorder.
 

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Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on April 25, 2017, 03:28 PM:
 
Hi all,

Thanks for all your possible alternatives to the Wolverin / Somikon for recording old (super) 8mm film. But could you please show us some results to go aside with your claims about the Q? The readers of this thread are (perhaps) spending a fair amount of hard earned money, so if you have better alternatives, please show us your output helping other members to make a better buying decision! Thanks in advance.

Cheers
 

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Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on April 25, 2017, 04:49 PM:
 

quote:

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Winbert, I got around the flicker problem by using an old analogue video camcorder,

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quote:

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I was able to eliminate nearly all flicker by slowing the shutter speed on my Sony camcorder.

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quote:

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"why you spend that much while we can do with this thing or that thing".

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quote:

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"why you spend $1500 for a Star Wars F/L print when you can buy that on a DVD".

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quote:

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I ordered mine - REbranded Somikon - at PEARL.DE for euro 399. Shipping date 27.04. [Cool]

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quote:

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. But could you please show us some results to go aside with your claims about the Q?

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A month ago, I give 5 stars for this result done by Mattias Norberg (please note the uploader is also a member of this forum)

https://vimeo.com/82497785

Until I found this video:

https://vimeo.com/129700087

This would be a 5 stars diamond.

The video was so sharp and very balanced colors. This can be made by combination of good camera, lense and scanning. Below I provided some screen shots:











and this is to show how so much details can be taken by his method. Look at the plague far behind when I screen shot from it original resolution, it still can be read easily. I never found a telecine can be sharp as this. Of course, this can be done because of the lens and also the scanner.



Cheers,
 

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Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 25, 2017, 06:53 PM:
 
The test results of the new Kodak S8 camera, don't even come close to this kind of quality on the Logmar - at least so far.
 

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Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on April 25, 2017, 08:15 PM:
 
Winbert

Those screen shots look great, my understanding of the type of scanner used I think was a Lasergraphics ScanStation. This is a very expensive professional piece of equipment.

Regarding the Wolverine videos I have watched I am not convinced enough to buy one, even though they are cheap. The results dont look that great to me, so at the moment I am going to hold of getting one.

https://vimeo.com/millerandmiller/telecine

I might try this instead
 

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Posted by Barbara Strohl (Member # 5227) on April 26, 2017, 09:13 AM:
 
So these had been sold out everywhere. The company in California,US finally got them in, I ordered and got mine Monday night.
http://secure.mm5server.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=F2DMM100&Attributes=Yes&Quantity=1

B&H and Adorama are still showing as backordered. Based on shipping, stocking, etc., I would assume they should both have them by next week. (probably this week). They both ship internationally.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1272222-REG/wolverine_data_f2dmm100_8mm_and_super_8.html#!
https://www.adorama.com/wvf2dmm100.html

Frys says they'll have it in the next couple weeks.
http://www.frys.com/product/8925833

I don't know about Amazon but I did notice that they have shortened their expected shipping window. Their price is higher than other places though.
 

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Posted by Gary Sayers (Member # 5545) on April 26, 2017, 09:56 AM:
 
Looks like Amazon have put their price up $20 in the last couple of days.

They have a habit of doing this with most things they sell. I often put things in my Amazon cart and then select 'save for later' to keep an eye out for big price reductions (clicking on cart will then bring up details of price rises and reductions, if any, of the items saved for later).

Sometimes there are massive drops/rises in price and may only stay that way for a matter of hours before changing again.
 

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Posted by Barbara Strohl (Member # 5227) on April 26, 2017, 10:07 AM:
 
Gary, Have you ever tried CamelCamelCamel (https://camelcamelcamel.com/)? My husband lives by it.
It tracks pricing on Amazon. You can see if the current price is high or low for that item. You can also set alerts for if the price drops.
 

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Posted by James Wilson (Member # 4620) on April 26, 2017, 12:36 PM:
 
Hi Winbert,

I have spent the last few days comparing the Somikon & Wolverine.
I've come to the conclusion upart from them looking fairly simular they differ in the fact the Somikon auto stops when the
film comes to the end the Wolverine does not, the Somikon has
PAL as well as NTSC output + with it being German it probably
has a better match electrically, so all in all in the UK or PAL countries your better off getting the Somikon, althopugh they both output at 30fps. So software is still needed to slow
down the frame rate.
I now have cancelled my Wolverine, you can buy the Somikon for
299DM from PEARL.DE about £50 more expensive £246 all in,
Kind Regards,
James.

[ April 27, 2017, 07:19 AM: Message edited by: James Wilson ]
 

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Posted by Gary Sayers (Member # 5545) on April 26, 2017, 01:28 PM:
 
Barbara - The CamelCamelCamel site looks intersting. May investigate further, thanks.

James - The downloadable manual for the Wolverine states that it has both PAL and NTSC output. I think actually it's irrelevant because it's creating a digital file, which has nothing to do with either PAL or NTSC. I just assumed it's to reassure buyers that it will work in their part of the world.

It also has DC 12v power.

The only thing it doesn't say is auto stop but I'd be willing to bet it has this too as they both look identical.
 

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Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on April 26, 2017, 05:19 PM:
 

quote:

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I have spent the last few days comparing the Somikon & Wolverine.
I've come to the conclusion upart from them looking fairly simular they differ in the fact the Somikon auto stops when the

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Hi James,

The best way to check is to find the patent numbers for both machines. If they share the same numbers you know what is the answer.

If you cannot find the patent no, try to find who made it. I bet this is made in China.

China products are known to change the brand for a small modification and sell at higher price. You can check their DVD/BluRay machines of non major companies. There are hundreds brands but actually came from only few companies.

Some major brands for lower model (Panasonic, Sony, etc) are even made from such companies and re-branded. These compannies are actually selling their brands not their product. If you have a problem with the machine they never repair but change with the new one due to its low cost (but high price). This is what we called OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer).

cheers,
 

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Posted by Gary Sayers (Member # 5545) on April 26, 2017, 05:38 PM:
 
Maybe they are different after all.
Just found a French demo of the Somikon on youtube. Unlike the Wolverine, it takes 400ft reels (check it out at 2:36 - you can clearly see the markings in feet on the reel).

I'd seen on the spec that the Somikon took 7" reels but thought the images looked the same as the Wolverine.

Going to have to think about my Wolverine order now because using larger reels is a game changer for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-elVOX4UbM0
 

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Posted by Barbara Strohl (Member # 5227) on April 27, 2017, 12:01 AM:
 
Autostop?
Mine seems to autostop about 1/3 of the time.
Sometimes it gets stuck on the tail and sometimes I'm there waiting and sometimes the whole thing runs through and the machine stops.

They may bave changed this. I ordered mine when they came back in on April 18th, and I got it Monday the 24th.

Also- It came with a 5" reel. In the morning I'll check to see if a 7" reel fits on it. I have a couple.
 

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Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on April 27, 2017, 02:42 AM:
 
Hi Winbert,

Thanks for your comprehensive reply, appreciated! Spot on about the difference between collectors and shooters!

quote:

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Berend, I saw you edited the post. So Somikon is a rebranded of Wolverine? If this is the same machine then Euro 399 vs US$ 299 (eqv EUR 273) is some kind a lost there. Buyers must be aware of this.

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As the Wolverine and Somikon look almost 1:1 I presume it's rebranding what I believe it is. Of course you have to do a close compare of the specs. When I receive my deck I'll share it's manual/spec-sheet.

I never compare prices with the USA, because I never buy there due to shipping cost, customs and taxes. AND I need 230V power supplies / jackets for my NL home.

Cheers
 

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Posted by James Wilson (Member # 4620) on April 27, 2017, 07:05 AM:
 
Hi Guys,
One last question, what software do you use, (is it free to reduce the speed, how long does it take to slowdown 200ft?
Kind Regards,
James.

[ April 27, 2017, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: James Wilson ]
 

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Posted by Peter Scott (Member # 4541) on April 27, 2017, 07:56 AM:
 
The problem you get with the Wolverine Movie Maker is if it goes wrong within the warranty period, not only do you have to pay to send it back to Wolverine to be repaired under warranty you have to pay them to get it sent back to you.
Just a word of warning
 

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Posted by Gary Sayers (Member # 5545) on April 27, 2017, 09:13 AM:
 
There is another version badged by Reflecta on Amazon Germany.

It is only available for 1 week rental as opposed to outright purchase @ Euro 69.99 with free postage in Germany.

I did a test to see how much delivery was to the UK and it was Euro 9.95 postage on top. Total cost worked out just over £70 but I guess the snag is paying to send it back (unless there is a free returns system).

Could be a useful service for anyone in Europe with a relatively small amount to transfer.

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B06XQNGDJZ/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&p sc=1&smid=A1UMXFK13IIBUM

Reflecta's website has them for purchase @ Euro 449 but not available until mid May. Looks like it only takes 200ft reels.

https://reflecta.de/en/products/detail/~id.840/reflecta-Film-Scanner-Super-8-%E2%80%93-Normal-8.html
 

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Posted by Barbara Strohl (Member # 5227) on April 28, 2017, 04:36 PM:
 
James,
Most video editing software will let you adjust the speed. Sometimes you will set the fps and sometimes it is a relative change to the current speed.
There are a lot of free programs available that you can try.

On this PC I have Windows Movie Maker which is free and a bunch of other things including my favorite, Adobe Premiere (not free).

Changing the speed takes no time, even on my cel phone.
Saving a new file can take awhile depending on what you are saving and your hardware. I can't imagine that 200ft would take very long on any machine from the past decade.

Last year I did all of the home movie on magnetic tape. The cassettes ranged from 30min to 8hrs. Some of those took a long time on my newest machine.
 

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Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on May 03, 2017, 03:16 PM:
 
Barbara, let me just encourage you to retain all of the original source media. Particularly with the Wolverine, you're not getting all of the image quality the film holds, even though it's pretty cool. Also, the longevity and quality of some digital media is questionable - the originals could potentially outlast us. Or at least be available for a new conversion into new formats... by our kids or grandkids!
 

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Posted by Barbara Strohl (Member # 5227) on May 05, 2017, 09:47 PM:
 
Thanks Bill but have no fear. I already have plans to vacuum seal and deep freeze the original films when I am done. I am horrified when I hear about people selling family negatives, slides, films, etc...
Preserving family memories is the main reason I have been digitizing EVERYTHING. We have lots of family. So who gets the picture of Babci? I have online storage so anyone in the family can have anything I have done and everyone gets a copy whenever they want.

The Wolverine was a toy that could make quick scans. It still takes a lot of post processing if you want something good. I also have a flatbed scanner system that takes longer but gives me individual frames in a purer form and can handle films in poor condition.
The speed of the Wolverine has added a new element. I can have digital files for everyone to look at quickly and then I can prioritize my work based on family wishes. It all needs to happen eventually but I can make people happy quicker. Also I now know where there are large sections that can be skipped because the lens cap was on.

I see the Wolverine having a place in the world. Some home movies were taken so badly (especially if my mom had the camera) you won't be losing out on anything. Also this may be the limit to some people's skill or budget. I could see lending this to some friends and then helping them out if they need/want.

And you are right about digital files. Most people do not realize how fleeting they can be. The storage media can fail. Even if it doesn't media and file formats change. I have files that I have moved from cassette to floppy to tape to zip to CD-rom to DVD-rom to hard-drive to smart-card to cloud and every so often I need to open and resave so that it is the most current file type. Yes I am an electronic pack rat. I live by "save, save often, and then save again".

Thanks.
 

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Posted by Tom Spielman (Member # 5352) on May 06, 2017, 01:23 AM:
 
The wolverine would do much better than what I have now of my father's movies. Years ago my brother took everything back with him to Hawaii and spent hour upon hour in his bathroom playing back the movies and recording them on 8mm tape. Then he copied them to VHS and then made 1 copy of each of the tapes to send to my siblings.

So he has a complete set while my self and and my two brothers each have 1/3 of the movies on a copy of a VHS tape. You can imagine what the quality is like. But I'm happy to have it and I've been able to digitize portions of it to share with my cousins and other family.

Last summer he and I talked about getting the film re-scanned but it's pretty expensive if you want HD. So we're going to hold off in hopes that prices drop as the technology improves and storage gets cheaper. Products like the Wolverine I think will help drive prices down.

While I can understand the desire to get every line of resolution possible out of the 8mm format, a lot of the time with my father's movies you're not dealing with perfect focus and exposure anyway. It would be difficult to justify 2k or 4k scans. The value of the movies is not in the quality of the images. It's the memories and the shared history.

And as it stands, all the film is 4,000 miles away from me. Any digital copy would be an improvement over what I've got now.

The better services also offer color correction and will smooth excessive camera motion. I have mixed feelings about that. The events captured in those movies are from so long ago and I was so young, that I actually remember the movies better than the original events. I remember watching them and laughing. I'm not sure I'd want them altered.

Anyway, yes, the Wolverine has its place.
 

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Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 06, 2017, 03:29 AM:
 
"The value of the movies is not in the quality of the images. It's the memories and the shared history."

How very very true Tom!
 

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Posted by Barbara Strohl (Member # 5227) on May 06, 2017, 04:21 PM:
 
Tom,
I would recommend taking up a collection with your family and go in on one. It would be $280-$320 plus tax and shipping, and about $15 for SD-card. I have video software that will do a lot of auto corrections for $30-$80.
You can even do the HD conversions with editing software but I find most of our home movies look better in SD.
Then everyone can have a copy of everything.

Having used the Wolverine I do stress that if your brother can clean and repair the film you will get the best results the machine can offer. Also, some fillms do better on a second run through than the first.

I have spent a lot of time repairing and digitizing video from magnetic tape. Of all the mediums I have worked with, that degrades the most and is the hardest to work with. I highly recommend no one relying on video tapes.

I know this forum is people who love film and the equipment but I really think that it is important for family stuff to be shared and passed on.
 

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Posted by Tom Spielman (Member # 5352) on May 06, 2017, 06:05 PM:
 
That's sound advice Barbara. I think the biggest problem we have right now is finding somebody with the time to do the work. I enjoy it and did a few of my wife's movies last year but my father shot quite a bit more film. Plus his movies are all in Hawaii at the moment.

In the past my brother would have found the time to do it but he's taking some classes right now and is perpetually busy. That's why we're thinking of having them scanned.They seem to be holding up pretty well so it's not like it needs to be done tomorrow.

I picked up a used projector and a screen last year and I really enjoyed seeing my wife's movies and a couple of my own (from the 80's) presented the way they were meant to be. But I completely agree that having digital copies that can easily be shared is a very nice thing.
 

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Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on May 11, 2017, 02:40 PM:
 
Well done, Barbara! We should all follow your example!
 

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