This is topic For sale: Elmo GS 1200 xenon. Totally refurbished SOLD in forum 8mm equipment for sale/trade at 8mm Forum.
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Posted by Ugo Grassi (Member # 139) on December 02, 2015, 12:49 PM:
The projector was totally disassembled e re-mount. Everything is like new. It works perfectly, recording feature too. I may send other photos and videos.
It comes with 1.0 lens (not in pictures), and a shutter with extreme blades (45° instead 53° like it comes from factory) for best light. Under request at two or three blades.
A NEW xenon lamp (unused) like spare is included. This lamp is NOT the clone available by Wittner Kino, but a totally new production better then the genuine Toshiba lamp.
3500 euro.
[ December 03, 2015, 01:47 AM: Message edited by: Ugo Grassi ]
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 02, 2015, 05:10 PM:
The Master Craftsman! ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on December 02, 2015, 05:52 PM:
You did it again, Maestro! Beautiful beast.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 02, 2015, 06:14 PM:
The Genius that is.. simply UGO!!!
From bare projector frame to projection perfection!!! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Now does anyone have a spare three and half grand and a pair of Bilson Muffs? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on December 03, 2015, 03:11 PM:
Jesus H Christ, i wish i could do that!
Posted by Ugo Grassi (Member # 139) on December 04, 2015, 01:15 AM:
This was the first test to check if everything was working...
https://youtu.be/kovMs4jyu1o
and this is the final result (audio by home theatre system)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n_xcfrob-k
Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on December 04, 2015, 08:19 AM:
Ugo, have you changed the front and back motors ?, they look bigger than originals, and so do the take up arms.
Posted by Ugo Grassi (Member # 139) on December 04, 2015, 08:51 AM:
Hello Paul, no I didn't change the arm motors with no genuine parts. That motors are the standard motors of the Elmo gs. The front motor seems bigger in the video.
To respect the genuine configuration is important...
I accomplish few innovations: a two or three blades shutter with smaller blades then the genuine one; modified load path to avoid scratches; modified heads pressure pins for the same reason.
Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on December 04, 2015, 09:18 AM:
It's a lot of work Ugo, I hope you sell it for good money, whatever the outcome your a brave man taking on such a job on this beast, for sure. The guides on these are its downfall in there original design, at least you have address this issue, a pity Elmo didn't address it better when concerns were raised. I noticed in your write up that you have a new lamp, that's better than the original Toshiba xenon ?. I'm intrigued, tell me more of this new lamp Ugo.
Posted by Ugo Grassi (Member # 139) on December 04, 2015, 10:38 AM:
Since Superior Quartz started to produce new clones, I bought four or five lamps but I was never totally satisfied with their lamps.
So I was looking for a better solution
By a friend I received and address of a big Chinese firm. They asked a new Toshiba lamp unused to measure the electric parameters and after two or three months they sent to me the first stock.
Time switching test
(the lamp worked for about 100 h before to run this test):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIjaJ-VZdSw
Light stability test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHeRzTXDtoU
Projection test:
(Alien, two blades shutter, 3mt screen, lens: Elmo 1.0 + Elmoscope 2x)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vEArC_Wzmw
I love these lamps! The black seems to be more black and the colors are brighter.
The lamps life should be about 800 hours. The colore temperature is 5600-6000, the IRC (or Ra) >95.
PS here other refurbishment pictures..
http://imgur.com/a/rgHji
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 04, 2015, 11:55 AM:
Simply stunning images from your Alien feature there Ugo!
Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on December 04, 2015, 09:04 PM:
That is a fair price for a machine that has been throughly refurbished. Well done Ugo!!
Posted by Ugo Grassi (Member # 139) on December 06, 2015, 02:36 AM:
3500 euro could appear an expensive price, but:
1) Wittner has no more spare clone lamps. That lamps was made by superior quartz (USA) and the quality was poor. Last price was 499 euro. My lamps are wonderful. There are many gs1200 xenon lovers that are using my lamps, in this forum and in the other one...
2) On ebay a gs1200 in mint state has a price between 2500 and 3000 euro, but you have to consider that however an unused machine has some capacitors exaust due to the age; probably discharges come from the potentiometers due to the age; like every GS there are scratches risks for the film; the genuine shutter decreases the light output.
My machine doesn't have these defects, and I give after sale support.
Posted by Alexander Vandeputte (Member # 1803) on December 06, 2015, 04:13 AM:
Having bought two GS1200 machines - one xenon and one halogen - from Ugo, I can only say that all of the above is true! Machines are not only in perfect cosmetical condition, they are also performing well above the usual standards...
The few minor technical issues I have experienced (after all the GS1200 remains a sophisticated beast) have all been addressed in the best possible way.
Also his xenon lamps are truly fantastic!
I know this sounds like an ad but it's true.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 06, 2015, 04:21 AM:
I think it represents the kind of deal that Phil of CHC was trying to give everyone a few years back, by doing his level best to introduce a brand new Fumeo to market with the all important support for the years to come it offered.
Let's not forget these were not xenon machines either!
I think for anyone that can afford this, given the after sale support you are providing Ugo, as well as the abundance of time and tlc you have clearly given this machine....then overall, it represents one of the best investments one could make for those in the market for a top high end machine.
Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on December 06, 2015, 05:05 AM:
.
[ January 21, 2016, 05:42 AM: Message edited by: Lee Mannering ]
Posted by Manuele Bossolasco (Member # 4531) on December 06, 2015, 09:34 AM:
Three years ago, I've also bought GS Xenon from the great master Ugo Grassi and I can certainly say he did an absolutely incredible job on my projector!
I think 3500 Euro are worth the experience and carefulness over Ugo's work on these machines.
By the way, I can confirm Ugo's xenon lamp it's wonderful and it gives a very bright light (although my xenon has 3 blades).
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 06, 2015, 10:43 AM:
Fine testimonials there for Ugo's magnificent work!
Posted by Antonio Costa Mota (Member # 221) on December 06, 2015, 12:22 PM:
Let me join those who can only have words of praise towards.
Ugo]s fenomenal job on the Elmo GS/1200]s that we own. Mine,
I bought from him back in 2005. It is the standard halogen version but with an outstanding light output due to some extra
Wiring in the transformer. The projector has performed faultlessly since then. Bravo Ugo.All the best to you.
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 09, 2015, 05:02 PM:
What an incredibly beautiful job Ugo has done on this machine. Every part looks brand new!
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 09, 2015, 05:15 PM:
I can only imagine when a machine is taken down to its frame and every component and circuit board has been examined, cleaned and inspected and tested,then carefully refitted or replaced as and when necessary, then you have as genuinely an "as good as new" machine as you're ever likely to find nowadays.
Factor in the fact also that Ugo has also either improved or modified the known flaws on these machines as well as improving the light output from the original arrangement by fitting a wider angled shutter, then surely this machine is actually an advancement on the original model purchased new in 1981 or thereabouts!
A superb achievement to be able to boast Ugo. Very well played sir
[ January 15, 2016, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 10, 2015, 02:19 PM:
And just imagine what a GS1200 xenon would cost today, if they were still being made. I would expect the cost to be well in excess of $75000.00.
Posted by Ugo Grassi (Member # 139) on December 11, 2015, 01:40 PM:
The item is available no more. sold.
Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on December 11, 2015, 03:12 PM:
Well done to Ugo and to the new owner. Keep up the great work Ugo! Keep the forum informed if you do another xenon or a halogen model rebuild.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on December 11, 2015, 03:28 PM:
Yes as Steven says, well done Ugo and the proud new owner!
Now that really is Cha Ching Pat!!
Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 31) on January 14, 2016, 06:20 PM:
I am the proud new owner of Ugo's Xenon GS1200 projector. I want to point out Ugo did a wonderful job packaging the machine for its over seas voyage, it arrived safe and sound:)
What a beautiful projector. I opted for the two blade shutter I wanted as much light on the screen as possible. Last night I watched my first feature Bonds "Gold Finger"
I screened the feature at 8 feet wide. What a nice transfer the quality was close to 35MM and what better projector to show off this title. Ugo's projector delivered plenty of light on the screen, I could have gone larger if I had the room. The GS delivered solid audio and runs very smooth and quiet. The picture remained very sharp through out the entire film. I forgot to mention how nice it is to watch a film in the correct color temperature. I am very happy.
I am amazed at Ugo mechanical talent and patients needed to rebuild this projector from the ground up. There is a good chance this Xenon GS owns the title of "top condition" of all Xenon GS1200 to date, it is better then new. I dont know how he does it.
Anyone thinking of doing business with Ugo he is a professional through and through. Thank you Ugo.
Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on January 14, 2016, 06:38 PM:
What happened to the Fumeos?
Posted by Paul Suchy (Member # 80) on January 14, 2016, 07:17 PM:
Congratulations, Alan G! It's no doubt Ugo did a great job, but the fact that it arrived safely and in great condition is a miracle in itself. Here's to many hours of screening heaven!
Alan R.-I was one of the potential customers for the Fumeo Classic projector that CHC was planning to produce; unfortunately, there were not enough people who agreed to commit to purchasing the new projector and the project was scrapped. Do a search on this forum and you'll see lots of stories (pro and con) regarding the Fumeo project.
Posted by Paul Suchy (Member # 80) on January 14, 2016, 07:17 PM:
Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 31) on January 14, 2016, 10:33 PM:
Thank you Paul!!
I was looking forward to the new Fumeo as well sad it never made it.
Alan I still have the Fumeos but they are not Xenon:)
Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on January 15, 2016, 07:07 AM:
Oh I meant what happened to the Fumeos that Alan had purchased. I should have been clearer. Alan is the xenon multi voltage?
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 15, 2016, 07:34 AM:
Congratulations Alan G, you have some wonderful machines in your locker there now. Enjoy my friend!
As you say, Ugo is a man who clearly works meticulously. His project came under a little criticism over on another forum, but I was first to defend him. It is obvious to my eyes that this rebuild was of the highest order!
I am also in admiration of the way he allowed the customer to decide which guides they wanted fitted to the machine.
Ugo himself was obviously a fan of the modified guide safer set up, but he respected that some customers, for whatever reason, May wish for the machine to be kept absolutely as per original design spec.
Nice touch Ugo!
Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 31) on January 15, 2016, 12:14 PM:
Alan the projector requires 220V ( I use a converter ) but auto switches between 50/60hz.
Thank you Andrew means a lot coming from you. Ugo is a master at his art and passions.
Posted by Ugo Grassi (Member # 139) on January 15, 2016, 02:00 PM:
Andrew Woodcock wrote:
"His project came under a little criticism over on another forum"
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 15, 2016, 02:26 PM:
Well it did sadly Ugo. Not so much YOUR work, but just a lack of conviction by the reader that these machines will still never be scratch resistant.
I tried my level best to convince, that in this case, there wouldn't be any such concerns Ugo.
Rightly or wrongly Ugo, not everyone is a fan of the GS1200. Even those that still have one or two of them.
For those that like them, they REALLY seem to like them.
It's pretty much the same with all machines I've found.
One man's pill is another man's poison I now seem to find myself increasingly saying these days.
Posted by Ugo Grassi (Member # 139) on January 15, 2016, 03:05 PM:
aaahhh yes, now I remember. Yes, someone had this opinion. No problem, that's the fun of the life. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 15, 2016, 03:11 PM:
It is indeed Ugo!
Posted by Ugo Grassi (Member # 139) on January 16, 2016, 01:09 PM:
Dear Alan... thank you for your message!!!
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on January 20, 2016, 04:23 PM:
Well now we all know that Florida is home to the best Elmo GS1200 in the world!
Well done Alan!
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on May 01, 2016, 04:13 AM:
Wow, i'll never tire of this post, Ugo's machines must be like buying a brand new projector from the factory. Fantastic.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 01, 2016, 04:22 AM:
It is remarkable the skill involved in these complete rebuilds right down to the frame.
Even more so considering the GS 1200 is without doubt, one of THE most complex machines ever made.
The only advantage any one would ever have carrying out this monumental task on a GS 1200 as opposed to some other complex machines issued by other manufacturers, is that the GS 1200 is an extremely modular build by design.
This, however, takes nothing at all away from immense skill required to achieve all what Ugo does here, which is of course, truly spectacular!
Posted by Raleigh M. Christopher (Member # 5209) on May 01, 2016, 02:01 PM:
All Elmo GS projectors have problems/risks of scratches due to the thread path? Or just the 1200?
Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on May 01, 2016, 04:19 PM:
The lower film guide where you insert the leader seems to be the main culprit. I replaced mine with a metal one from FFR. The other is the black plastic guide on a spring located on the bottom after the lower sprocket wheel. You have to keep an eye on it and make sure it is perfectly smooth where it touches the film...
Ugo makes modifications to his machines that prevent scratching as far as I know...
Posted by Raleigh M. Christopher (Member # 5209) on May 01, 2016, 07:49 PM:
But is that a problem on all GS models, or just the 1200?
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 01, 2016, 09:27 PM:
They are both highly dubious as a film path. Personally, I dont, and will never, trust any Elmo ever again because of my own experiences with their lethal film paths, but many will swear they're fine!!
Once they have been given the Ugo treatment, I'm certain this is true, but from original design, I'd be very wary indeed based on my own experiences, and many others it has to be said, with these.
[ May 02, 2016, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]
Posted by Raleigh M. Christopher (Member # 5209) on May 02, 2016, 11:52 AM:
Damn. I've been looking at Elmo projectors to purchase. Scratching is the last thing I want.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 02, 2016, 01:31 PM:
Many will say they're fine Raleigh, just not in my own personal experience of using them, that's all.
It took five of them though, to convince me!
I still have one ST 1200 m/o model, which I keep hold of just for my optical sound films. This has been the most reliable and kindest to films of any of the ones I've had, but even this throws up the odd surprise from time to time and always totally at random. My hand is never more than 25mm from the control knob when using it!
No amount of inspection or cleaning or adjustment has or will ever make a difference either as I've found. Guides and Rollers all have plenty of wear left in them also, so that isn't the issue on this either.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on May 02, 2016, 03:01 PM:
As far as Elmo's scratching here is the facts, on the 1200 and 1200HD's the main culprit as mentioned is the second sprocket lower green guide. These can wear flat, hence why you dont see the scratch until it's too late, i always removed mine every 12 months or so and gave this area a thorough cleaning, obviously this is on top of the usual before and after each film show.
We were also fortunate enough to have learned of this problem many moons ago so we bought up a dozen of the rear guides, any new machines we bought, (3 in total), had that rear guide changed for a new one.
BTW, we have three of the 1200HD's & we do swear by them, i made a recent change but that didnt work out for me so we are sticking with these great machines. One of them now in its 34th year with me.
On the GS1200, (i myself have not been fortunate enough to get on e of these), i understand the culprit is the front guide which can now be replaced by a modified one from Van Ek services. If i had one of these machines that would be something i sorted before putting a film through.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 02, 2016, 04:36 PM:
I clearly respect all of your expertise, experience and outstanding knowledge of these machines Tom.
All I can say in response to these excellent suggestions, is some of the marks I have experienced from these in use must have been happening before the lower sprocket as I was, on occasions viewing the marks as they were happening before the gate!
Sometimes not even a scratch, more like a smiley mouth shape would appear right in the middle of the frame.
Stop the machine, do nothing, then restart the projector, the marks or lines would cease!
Maybe I was just allergic to the Japanese machines lol, who knows??
I had to change brand in the end if I wanted to continue collecting film. Since doing so, after some initial teething issues I have had, I can now finally relax when viewing the collection in the manner I enjoy.
I tried everything in my armoury to control the issues over the years, and though I could at times get to within 95% of complete satisfaction, it's only nowadays I can hand on heart claim 99.9% confidence in the machines I use.
We cannot of course, ever say 100% certainty for any mechanical construction that has a very delicate and unbelievably easily damaged medium running through it at speed, but 99.9 is as good as it gets I'd say from any machine out there.
I've seen no damage at all in these past 18months or so and that is the best and longest sustained period of time I've ever had throughout the years, since first only owning one Agfa sound projector.
I know there are people like Tom here who have had fabulous service from these machines, but to do so, ideally you would need a brand new inventory of spare parts as large as Tom has recently displayed over elsewhere. If you have these spares, or can gain access to them,maybe you'll fair well with one. If not, I would proceed with caution myself.
As for the GS, there are many more places other than the initial guide shoe that cause problems with scratching as they age. There is already tons of coverage regarding all of these various places on here in numerous threads over the years.
Edwin Van Eck has recently introduced new 3D parts that help with extra rollers etc within the new guides, but as Ugo himself here as pointed out, they are prone as a machine to scratching as all too many owners of these over the years will testify.
Whether or not the issue can be completely eliminated for good, remains to be seen I'd have thought.
[ May 02, 2016, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on May 02, 2016, 04:54 PM:
Andy, that sounds like a weird mark, the smiley face
i cant think what that would be, it is strange though because i have had some second hand films where there is a mark/scratch type that instead of being a line all the way through its as though the same mark is printed on each frame if you get my meaning. i have always been curious of what would cause this. i sent the prints back as being faulty.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 02, 2016, 04:58 PM:
It's not from the print being printed Tom. It is definitely from the film being damaged.
I've got prints that my own ST 1200s have done this to before I learned my lesson!
Some were immaculate beforehand.
My theory of it is one I cannot easily describe but will have to use photographs of the actual part I see as the main culprit.
I will explain further when I can photograph it when I next have an optical sound movie evening.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on May 02, 2016, 05:19 PM:
defiantly be interested to see the pics please. im very curious.
We had a b&h filmosonic once, it was a brand new machine and it put a green tram-line all the way through a brand new 400 foot film,when we took the machine back they tried to say the film must have been already scratched as they couldn't find anything wrong,
suffice to say we never touched another b&h again, it certainly does put you off so i fully understand your mis trust on this.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 02, 2016, 05:33 PM:
If I hadn't had as many as I have had over the years, I wouldn't be so quick to point out these watch outs, as I'd just put it down to me having a worn out lemon of a machine.
But the fact I've now had five bites at the cherry, all in reasonable, or better still excellent cosmetic and mechanical condition, means I have come to the conclusions I have got now Tom.
I'm certain, given your time in the hobby, and obtaining those vital brand new spares when you could from Hanimex, has served you very well indeed here.
What we all have to remember now whenever we recommend anything, is the all important spares simply are not often available, certainly not brand new and unused anyhow.
This was primarily my main reason for pursuing the purchase of a Beaulieu projector a few years back, simply because there was no other projector on the market which could guarantee me the same level of support.
I had the first T610 already and I was happy, but even these are not easy to find brand new spare parts for although I have been lucky enough to find the essentials back then.
Not as easy now though I must say, and that was only 4 or 5 years ago.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on May 03, 2016, 01:35 AM:
I must agree having the spares has pretty much kept me in good luck. I guess its a bit like anything mechanical, if parts are worn and no new is availible then problems will occur. I know my Brother loves his eumigs because they are so kind to his films.
I certainly wish i bought many more items.
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