8mm Forum: Dracula-Prince of Darkness/17mins/scope

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Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on September 23, 2006, 08:23 AM:

Here's my view on this old derann release from years gone by.
After the success of the 1958 hammer Dracula,the main problem for
the boys at Bray was,how do we resurrect the evil CountD.
Well soon many bizarre resurrections and gory downfalls were on the way!.
Horror buffs know how the evil Count came to his sticky end at the end of the first film.
This two reeler opens with that pre-title sequence as we are reminded how Dracula was destroyed;this disintegration to ashes
is still the best of all of Dracula's demises.
After the titles,we join Barbara Shelley and Charles Tingwell who
are trying to get some sleep in a spooky castle.A noise outside in the corridor leads Charles to investagate.A hanging tapestry moves,a knife flashes and poor Charles is being dragged down to the cellar.
The faithful old servent of the departed Dracula then ties a rope
around his victim's ankles and hauls him,upside down over the empty tomb.From the black altar,he reverently takes a small casket and scatters the contents-CountD's ashes-into the coffin.
He then calmly slits the throat of poor Charles who is swinging
above.Blood spatters into the coffin and slowly mixes with the ashes.Slowly Dracula takes shape and we see a hand claw over the edge of the coffin.
Dracula is once again on the prowl,but soon it is time for him to
be commited once more to the grave.As well as sunlight,and the usual stake thru the heart;a vampire can also be destroyed by,running water.-I wonder what BRAM STOKER would have made of this!.On the frozen moat around his castle,Dracula tries to survive but,as always,as the ice gives way and he sinks,screaming,into the murky water below.I got this two reeler
second hand,so colour fade is there for all to see.I still enjoy it though,and now thankfully,Derann have made ammends,by releaseing the full feature on super 8;on low fade stock to.
This was and is a nice sovernior of the old release by Derann.but
now i am sure is of no interest now because Derann have given us what we Hammer fans like.-the full feature in scope.Dont forget,this release dates back to around 1978 or so,and at that time this title was the only Hammer title,released by Derann in scope.I enjoy this two reeler;maybe someone could review the feature.I hope to get the feature someday.Andy.

Posted by Mal Brake (Member # 14) on September 23, 2006, 06:44 PM:

I used to own this title some years ago. The first 10 minutes or so are very atmospheric but the ending is rushed with too much of a continuity gap.
Christopher Lee has said that he was so disappointed with his script his character doesn't utter a single word.
Mal

Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on September 24, 2006, 11:47 AM:

I Too found that it was rushed at the end.The editor seem to run out of time.Still enjoyable though.Andy.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on September 24, 2006, 06:28 PM:

There are a few prints in circulation on low fade stock, released after the Super 8 revival began. Don't know if any are worth having, though, as one I used to have was poor and had a 'washed out' look. The feature is much better, though, and definitely worth having. Incidentally, the feature is a slightly 'milder' cut, so it doesn't have the brief shot of the stake being hammered (no pun intended) into Barbara Shelley. I think this shot might be in the old 4 x 400' flat version but I can't remember for sure.

Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on September 25, 2006, 10:50 AM:

I wonder why that shot is missing from the feature?.
Maybe DERANN could tell us.Andy.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on September 25, 2006, 08:11 PM:

It's simply down to the master used. Can't remember which but it's either the US or the UK version with the explicit staking, and Derann had the master for the other version. The 'missing' shot is probably about one second. Same sort of situation as with the 1958 'Dracula', as the US 'Horror of Dracula' version has a brief staking shot, whilst the UK version has a cut away at the equivalent point.

Posted by Kurt Gardner (Member # 440) on September 26, 2006, 09:57 AM:

I have the flat 4 x 400 version. It does indeed have the Barbara Shelley staking. The print is pretty blown out and grainy from the panning and scanning, as if you were watching it with the lights on, but it's still compelling.

Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on September 26, 2006, 10:38 AM:

This digest don'st even have the Barbara Shelley scene.damm it!andy.The uk tv companies are the same.Some do contain that scene
others don't.

Posted by Dave Cragg (Member # 401) on September 27, 2006, 04:49 PM:

Hi Chaps,
why is the ending so rushed on the 400 ft version; surely if it only runs 17 minutes then the editor has another 3 minutes to play with?
This is a big irritation to me; 16 or 17 minutes of film on a reel that should hold 20 minutes.
Over the last few months I have watched a number of 4 x 400ft versions of Bruce Lee films. In each of the major fight scenes my friends have pointed out that there are a number of omissions. As each reel is only 16/17 minutes why is this the case?
Recently somebody (Barry?) hinted that in some cases there was agreement with some of the film studios that films would only be released 66% or 80% complete. Is this the case? And if so, what was the reasoning behind it? Surely by the time a film was released on 8mm it would no longer be showing on the cinemas, so it couldn't be to encourage people to still see the film in the cinema as well?
[Confused]

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on September 27, 2006, 05:50 PM:

I think it mainly comes down to economy. Remember that the vast majority of digests were released before the days that full length feature releases became common, and also at a time when Super 8 films, once you take inflation into account, were significantly more expensive than they are now. Although it may be frustrating if there's room for more on a reel, I bet most distributors would have charged more if they had opted for 20 min releases rather than 17 minute. Having said that, some of the common 4 x 400 releases (eg Walton) ran for about 72 mins, so you might imagine that when a great film like 'Twins of Evil' was released, people might have complained that they would rather have paid more for another 15 mins, in order to have it full length.

However, it's true that there were times when distributors would only allow (eg) a 400' or 2 x 400' version on 8, presumably so that there was no chance of it being presented as a complete feature.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on November 13, 2007, 04:02 PM:

I just recently won a print of the 400'er in scope and the focus is a bit soft. I don't have a scope lens so everything in some scenes is a bit "squeezed", but in other scenes you really don't notice. The color is only slightly faded - hardly noticeable. I was so annoyed not to see the infamous "staking" scene with Ms. Shelley. The ending was a bit "tight", but overall the digest rates a B-/C+. I'll keep it for the sole reason that it makes for a more complete collection, but unless you're a devotee of classic horror or Hammer titles my advice is skip the digest and hold out for the full-length adaptation.

[ April 29, 2010, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: Brad Kimball ]

Posted by Peter Richards (Member # 738) on January 30, 2008, 05:08 AM:

Ok,i agree with your views on the ending being rushed as i've just viewed a very scratched copy of the 400ft version.

But i still think this is well worth owning as it's so atmospheric at the start and you get the full Hammer experience.

A complete joy for us Horrorfans [Smile]

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on January 31, 2008, 07:40 AM:

I'll throw my bit in . I am not familiar with the abridgement, but I can tell you that the scope feature is just about perfect in every way. Watching it at home makes me feel that I'm back watching it at the theater when it was first released. ( which I did).

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on June 05, 2017, 02:27 PM:

My copy, which I watched a couple of nights ago, is on Fuji stock and still had goof colour.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 05, 2017, 04:01 PM:

we also have the 400ft scope version with no fade so i assume it is fuji stock. i will put up a few screen shots later. [Wink]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 07, 2017, 11:57 AM:

I find "Old School" horror films are much more fun all blown out, grainy and all! [Smile]

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 10, 2017, 02:38 PM:

When Studio Canal first did the deal to release Hammer films on Blu-ray, one of the early titles was Dracula Prince of Darkness.

It was much anticipated, although when it arrived many parts had sound which was out of sync.

To their credit, they acknowledged the mistake and went back to re-master it from scratch and then supplied buyers with new discs, including the use better software for rendering the opening swirly mist scenes.

Fair play to them in this day and age that they listened to the consumer and went back to rectify their mistakes.

I'd always wanted a Derann print of this on super 8 and missed out on several.

I do like the Blu-ray and fair play to Studio Canal for what they did.

Still, running it on real film... [Wink]

Posted by Carter Bradley (Member # 984) on June 10, 2017, 06:08 PM:

I think Adrian is exactly right about many digests being released as 16-17 minute prints in order for the distributor to save money. I remember when Ken Films released their four Elvis digests ("Blue Hawaii," etc.) they produced 18 minute versions, but created the "K" label and priced these films $5.00 higher than their "H" label of 16 minute digests!

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on June 11, 2017, 12:24 AM:

I dont own any Hammer films on Super 8. Which is the best feature to get in terms of quality and content? A scope feature sounds great!

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on June 11, 2017, 11:05 AM:

I don't think Hammer did many scope features and this one, at least was the economy Techniscope 2 perf pulldown type. No distortion as with some early scope films but more grain due to being blown up more.

I quite like the prints and content of Scars of Dracula,but it is rather later and shows signs of Hammer struggling to get another Dracula film out.

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on June 14, 2017, 08:47 AM:

To answer Alan's question....there are some outstanding prints of several Hammer films out there. I can only testify personally about a few. I have the Scope Dracula, Prince of Darkness...and it is perfect in every way. The others I have are flat... best quality probably The Mummy...just super color and sharpness. The uncut feature versions of Vampire Circus and Twins of Evil are superb prints..complete with nudity , vampires and violence. My favorite is Twins fo Evil due to a very nice performance of Peter Cushing. I know they did release the first Dracula (Horror of) but I have never seen a super 8 print. I have an IB tech of it in 16mm.
Also, the uncut feature , Scars of Dracula, is a great print, giving Christopher Lee more dialog ..and has a terrific ending. Not the best Hammer, but very entertaining. I have seen a print of Curse of Frankenstein, but the print I saw had a greenish tint to it.
If you are equipped for Scope...then I think the best is Dracula-Prince of Darkness.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on June 16, 2017, 03:47 PM:

As a Hammer collector, I can confirm that the 'Dracula POD' feature and 400' is the only Hammer horror 'scope material on Super 8. And the only other Hammer 'scope material of any kind is the Walton '400 release of 'The Lady Vanishes' (1979). This was released in 'scope and flat and is well worth looking out for, especially as there are low fade prints around. There are one or two trailers to 'scope films, such as 'The Vengeance of She', but any such trailers are flat. I've heard of an incredibly rare US feature release of 'Legend of the Seven Golden Vampires' which was originally a scope release, but I think the Super 8 release - if you could find one, which is virtually impossible - is flat.

Posted by Brian Hendel (Member # 61) on June 18, 2017, 10:44 AM:

Adrian - As a completely obsessed super 8 Hammer collector... I must add the scope digest to "Paranoiac" put out by CHC to the list... it's a nice black and white print with english audio but subtitles (German I think).

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on June 18, 2017, 01:16 PM:

Brian - many thanks, I somehow overlooked that even though I have a copy! But I take it you mean the trailer, unless there's a digest I've never heard of?

Posted by Brian Hendel (Member # 61) on June 19, 2017, 06:56 PM:

Oops my bad... I did mean to say trailer. Don't worry, you're not missing anything!

Posted by Burton Sundquist (Member # 5813) on December 16, 2017, 07:10 PM:

I bought the 4 X 400' flat release earlier this year and it is faded and grainy as Kurt described. I just recently acquired the digest originally reviewed by Andrew. What a difference with both the low fade stock and scope presentation! If only more Hammer classics were released in such glory!

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on December 19, 2017, 12:33 AM:

Burton, those are excellent screenshots. We also have this digest in scope on low fade stock and it is a good edit. The classicc flash back opening and then more or less moves along very quickly.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on December 19, 2017, 02:51 PM:

Burton/Tom - You're fortunate to find copies looking so good. Prior to obtaining the scope feature, I had a couple of digests but neither was worth keeping. One was 1980s low fade but even that was a washed out overexposed print!

Posted by Burton Sundquist (Member # 5813) on December 19, 2017, 09:55 PM:

...Now that I know there is a feature length scope version of this film in super 8mm I'll be on the hunt...

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on March 14, 2019, 03:06 AM:

Worth mentioning on this thread.

Recently acquired a LPP Scope 400 of this and also a new Fuji print of the flat version both excellent, but I do find the Fuji print with more vivid colour. Probably one of the best 400s out there.

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on March 17, 2019, 09:53 AM:

Yes get the feature! Its a real nice scope print! It was so good I took mine and mounted it on one reel! Its nothing like it!

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on March 18, 2019, 07:15 AM:

Did a re record on one as the sound originally on that feature was appallingly rough. [Eek!]

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on March 18, 2019, 09:41 AM:

There is no sound problem with mine! Its pretty good!

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