This is topic Panasonic VP in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.
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Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 08, 2004, 09:24 AM:
I hope fellow collectors will forgive me for introducing a VP topic, but I would just like to pass along a personal recommendation for anyone considering the purchase of a VP to supplement their super 8mm film collecting. I recently purchased a new Panasonic PT-AE700U projector, and would totally recommend this VP to anyone. It is a 16:9 WXGA LCD projector with 1,000 lumens brightness and a 2000:1 contrast ratio. It features Panasonic's dynamic iris feature which continuously regulates the brightness and gamma level of the picture, and also Panasonic's smooth screen technology which effectively eliminates the screen door effect. It puts out a beautifully rich coloured, bright contrasty picture with NO screendoor effect up to a foot away from the picture! For $2000.00 it is a very good buy indeed, and is equal to or better than most projectors in the $5k- $10K range. I believe this projector is ideal for film collectors for a couple of reasons besides its beautiful picture quality. First, it has horizontal and vertical lens shift capability (similar to the vertical lens shift feature on the Eumig 900 series super 8 projectors), and most importantly, it has a 2X zoom lens ( similar to most S8 projection lenses) so you don'd have the bother of a ceiling mount, and you can put the VP on a shelf or bookcase at the back of the room, in the same place as the super 8 projector. This is a great performing VP for casual viewing of DVD's, but that's all you can do with it, and like all VP'S it is a dull characterless plastic box compared with a GS1200!
Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on December 08, 2004, 02:02 PM:
That's very interesting Paul, I am thinking that I shall one day supplement my 8mm collection with DVD but shall have to get young Rexette to do a few more nights at the club before I can afford it .
I wonder if the same model is available in the UK?
Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on December 08, 2004, 02:20 PM:
As mike is too shy to ask can you describe the box it comes in?
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 08, 2004, 06:39 PM:
Mike, tell Rexette from me to get her act together so you can get that VP! As far as I know, the AE700U is available in the UK.
Incidentally, I hope you are planning to bring Rexette to the next BFCC, which I am planning on attending!
Tony, I'm afraid that even Mike would have no interest in this box. It is even blander than the projector inside, if that is possible.
Posted by Craig Hamilton (Member # 258) on December 08, 2004, 07:00 PM:
Mike, try this link.
Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on December 09, 2004, 01:23 AM:
It is available in Europe. It's the one I've got. Paul finished to convinced me when we met a few weeks ago.
We watched "The Empire Strikes Back" last weekend and it was jaw-dropping.
Posted by Chris Quinn (Member # 129) on December 10, 2004, 08:01 AM:
I am thinking very seriously of buying a VP and have been looking for a while, a didn't realise how good these were now and would like to have a set up at home along side the cine.
This one looks the best budget model yet, i shall be doing a search to see how far down i can get the price.
It seems a lot of collectors have VP at home along side the cine and this has to be the way to go, and i thought i would never say that!
Thanks for the info paul.
Posted by Paul Wilson (Member # 303) on December 10, 2004, 09:55 AM:
I have got a VP and its only when you get one that you realise how good they are and how you have put up with second rate material for so long, its these sad 8mm collectors that think their is nothing to beat 8mm well their is.
Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on December 10, 2004, 10:13 AM:
You are so right .
Still in a few years you will be saying the same about those sad DVD collectors
I guess there is room for everything in life and each to his own etc etc.
Just hope you haven't ignited another DVD vs cine debate
Posted by David Park (Member # 123) on December 10, 2004, 10:57 AM:
Yes the 700 is avaiable in UK.
Myself I have the 500 and that is marvellous which is the model that preceeded the 700. It is hard to understand that it could be betterd but all who have the later model say it is.
For those with limited funds have a look out for the 500 at sale prices.
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 10, 2004, 11:02 AM:
If you feel that 8mm collectors are such a sad bunch, why are you wasting your time (and ours) on this forum? I have a VP too, and it is a fantastic piece of equipment, but I do not feel that the aquisition of one gives me superiority in any way over 8mm film collectors. If you really feel that way, then you have no appreciation at all for the special joys of the film collecting hobby.
Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on December 10, 2004, 11:55 AM:
I can never quite understand why it is that people think that 8mm collectors think they have the best and there is no room for anything else. Certainly none of the collectors that I know or have met feel that way, many show both DVD and film at home and enjoy the qualities of each medium.
There has been resistance on this forum to opening up to DVD and I am one of those that would argue against it, but this is not due to film snobbery, it's more about the fact that this is one of the few precious refuges of film for those that want to have a film fix.
It would be a shame to see it diluted.
Just my two penneth...
Posted by Tom Mc Kenzie (Member # 241) on December 10, 2004, 12:18 PM:
Video projectors are fine machines for those who want a easy life and have reached a certain age. I have a friend who after having a stroke couldnt handle threading a film or using his Elmo GS 1200 so he sold his collection and bought a Sharp Video Projector from Derann. Now he still has it in his cinema but I go over to his place and show a few films and even he admits you cant beat film.
It is the "Reel" Thing!!
Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on December 10, 2004, 12:45 PM:
I knew it...just knew it...here we go again....another flaming thread.....
Why do we take the bait everytime?????
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 10, 2004, 12:58 PM:
Sorry Tony, some people never learn!
Posted by Trevor Adams (Member # 42) on December 10, 2004, 01:55 PM:
The AE700 is the most stunning home projection device I've seen.Watched Singin'in the Rain a couple of weeks ago at 12ft wide.The definition,colours and brilliance were out of this world.Costs $NZ4500 at our appliance stores.Trev
Posted by Paul Wilson (Member # 303) on December 11, 2004, 02:55 AM:
I have a very extensive 8mm collection and would never give up collecting film, but their are some 8mm collectors who shall remain nameless that feel that video projection does not come any where near to 8mm its these that are a sad bunch, in this day of modern technology we have to accept that their are going to be things better then what their was and no doubt in years to come their is something that is goin
g to be better then video projection.
si I am not wasting my time and others as you say but trying to point out that 8mm is not the best in quality their are others superior.
Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on December 11, 2004, 04:16 AM:
I totally agree with you! Let's face it you can get bad DVD's as well but the quality of modern equipment is superb by comparison to some 16mm I have seen.
I just get a bit tired of the posts on forums that seem to end up in a "handbag" fight between the forums...my Elmo is better than your Eumig...my 8mm beats your 16mm...my DVD etc etc.
Just don't see the point of them!
I quite enjoy all of the various means we have of watching films but on cost alone collecting s8 or 16 is just nuts. However, I do feel obligated to maintaining Mr O'Reilly's lifestyle!
Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on December 11, 2004, 04:43 AM:
I guess it's the result that's important, the projected image, no matter which format is used. (For me, anyway.)
Having something really close to an actual theatre experience at home, where film projectors can work side by side with state-of-the-art digital equipment, is what counts. Some people like traditional projectors, some others like films as entertainment pieces, whatever the format, some like both. If we were stuck with old-fashion films, no one would ever dare talking about synching a super 8 feature with 5.1 sound out of a dvd, wouldn't it? It's all matter of keeping an open mind and putting on a great show.
Also, be aware that some of the early dvd's (with average encoding) don't look that good once projected with such a stunning machine like the 700.
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 11, 2004, 08:21 AM:
Well I am very glad to hear that you are in fact a super 8mm collector . I thought from your initial post that you were just a VP owner who had come on to this forum to slam 8mm. That's what I do not understand, the film collectors who have got great pleasure out of the hobby for decades, who go out and buy a VP, and then suddenly film collecting is a waste of time and film collectors are an eccentric bunch of people living in the dark ages. It makes no sense because film and VP can happily co-exist and compliment each other, and you can get great pleasure from both. Lets all agree that VP in the home gives a better picture than most 8mm or 16mm in the home, but lacks the special technical interest, showmanship, and special sense of occasion that you get with film.
Posted by David Park (Member # 123) on December 11, 2004, 10:56 AM:
PT-AE700 from £1250
PT-AE500 from £1000
On the UK internet.
Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on December 11, 2004, 12:04 PM:
I do not own a Video Projector, but I do also watch DVD's on a Sony 35" screen TV. Last August my wife gave me a DVD as an Anniversary gift, of the 50th anniversary Collectors DVD of High Noon. The DVD has plenty of wonderful extras, but the quality of this particular printing leaves me flat and cold.
Also worth mentioning, I have seen varying quality of Laser Disc and DVD; with some Lasers looking better on some titles than DVD, and some film that still blow away Laser Disc.
A few months ago, Paul Adsett reviewed his 8mm features opposite the Sony VP. I am curious of a similar test with the Panasonic.
(Paul A., if you do not wish to post this online, you can contact me off line.)
Happy Screening to all, and to all that enjoy all formats.
HO HO HO!
P.S. Brad, we need a smily with a Santa's Cap!
Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 31) on December 11, 2004, 02:10 PM:
Glad to hear your enjoying your VP. I know this projector very well and was surprized to see someone on this forum mention they had one.They recently just started shipping. Its very popular at the moment and it incorporates the very latest cutting edge technology that put this projector way ahead of any other LCD projector. This will bring you many years of enjoyment and its affordable.
Many film collectors consider video taboo but when you cant get your favorite title on film video is the next best thing. No reason they cannot coexist side by side.
Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on December 11, 2004, 11:07 PM:
This fall will showcase two new formats (HD DVD & Blu-ray). I'm looking forward to the increase in quality and the increase in the amount of outdated equipment.
Posted by David Park (Member # 123) on December 12, 2004, 02:43 AM:
What are these new systems, do they use the same sze as disc as now or something different?
If the 'CD' size will they play on existing DVD players but at present quaulity, and will our existing DVDs play on them?
The introductuin of new discs or whatever will take many years into the shops and we will probably have worn out our present equipment by then.
Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on December 12, 2004, 03:23 PM:
David, you'll need new players for either new format. Sorry. The great technological rip-off continues unabated.
All the posts on here have convinced me. I'm going to junk all my film equipment - even get rid of that inferior quality 35mm machine and replace it with a £1,000 video projector. Oh! Silly me! I've already got a £7,000 video projector. Funny how by comparison it's crap. But then, if it wasn't it would be time for a trip to the optician.
Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on December 12, 2004, 10:12 PM:
I want to hear more about the 35mm Projector. Is it portable, and are they affordable? Do you store the film on cores?
There always seems to be a print that I wish to get on 35.
As I mentioned earlier, my wife gave me a DVD gift of High Noon, and It just leaves me cold. The quality of the transfer is just OK. It has wonderful extras, but it's not film.
Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on December 13, 2004, 02:57 AM:
Michael, take a look at the pictures on www.bfcc.biz under the 'Home Cinemas' pages. Keith has the Xenon version of this portable machine whereas mine has been converted to a standard 250w lamp. We use Keith's at most conventions and despite the lamp being on the way out which means we have to re-strike it occasionally during a show it puts a very bright, white light on the 24ft screen.
These projectors seem to come up quite often on Ebay but are generally in the States. Only two dozen were imported to Britain apparently. Shipping from America is going to be prohibitively expensive. But Phil Sheard of Classic sometimes has portable 35mm machines for sale. Also worth registering with the 35mm forum. Some of the people who post are a tad rude but if you can ignore the 'know-it-alls' who like to ridicule anyone who gets anything wrong about their beloved cinema subject then it can prove rewarding. I've got some amazing films from around the world for very little outlay. And the main reason for this is it helps to keep the shows at the BFCC's interesting in the future. It costs Keith and I a fortune in films meaning the conventions run permanently at a loss but we're more interested in promoting the hobby and trying to keep it going. A shame our detractors and snipers don't appreciate that.
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on December 13, 2004, 12:05 PM:
Hi John I don`t think you can make any comparrison between the old 7k machine and the new panasonic, this rsally is as good or as close to 35mm in the home and beats most many multi thousand machine`s form even not that long ago.
Saying that its not an old sharp is it you have as they really were crap until not too long ago.
Your in the smoke John, it would be ever so simple for you to see one properly set up and you really wouldn`t belive it now, the PT700 by all accounts is unbelievable for the price.
And leaves even good 16mm way behind in its superb qaulity. Have a gander at some screen shots at least.
What it all comes down to is that film can happily sit side by side with VP but film and film equipment prices are coming down, certainly looking on ebay lost of things that would have gone for much more now languish around, projectors go for less, even half of that they would 2 years ago.
Look at that GS1200 I mentioned for £650 not a nibble yet, says it all, whos going to pay that when even a modest new VP for around £450 with 3 years gaurantee will pretty much blow it away.
Film is great fun but its going to have to sit in the fun to fiddle and do spot now, as honestly new VP standards are storming ahead of it.
Also players capable of dvd playing will be with us for 10 to 20 years now as good old joe public have all gone and bought £20s upwards dvd players and now buy dvds in their multi millions, maybe even billions so you will still for donkeys years be able to buy something to show them as there will be a market long tem that will be sated.
A good transfer dvd even on my old sony CS2 banger looks superb compared to most 8 or 16mm but I`ll still love and enjoy film, but well said paul we need to be able to accept that the future is here and all things move on.
I`m telling you now anyone who does cine and gets a panny 700 will be blown away and love it side by side with their elmos etc.
Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on December 13, 2004, 03:36 PM:
Sorry Mark, I've seen many of the latest machines and they're just not that good. I hold out great expectations for Colin Clark's new JVC though. It has the latest DLP/LCD cross fertilization three chip technology and is by all accounts film quality.
Trouble is, I can't really justify £12k on another video projector.
Been to the optician lately?
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on December 13, 2004, 05:13 PM:
I see this debate has gone the usual way.
Well lets do something different. Let both sides of the argument produce their evidence. Then everybody can see for themselves and decide for themselves.
As Paul and Jean Marc both own Panasonics why donít they take a few Screenshots to show what their machine can do. They can post them on this forum, or one the numerous 16mm forums Iím sure even the BFCC site would take them as it would only strengthen their argument that no VP will ever surpass 8mm
Remember we are talking 8mm because this is a 8mm site !!!
John can no doubt can take screens shots of his £7000.00 VP in action to show us how bad it is. He can produce screenshots of BFCC Conventions so it should be no bother to him .
If all the warring factions produce the evidence then we will never have to have this thread again.
I'm sure nobody has anything to be afraid off!!
I await your PHOTOS in anticipation.
Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on December 13, 2004, 05:37 PM:
This is an 8mm film hobbyists' site. Folks interested in 8mm film and equipment. This is not a site that determines what is the best way to view a film. This is not a site to debate quality differences in VCRs, DVD players, televisions, etc., and how well they display a movie or show. The enthusiasm with the quality of the video projectors you own shouldn't even be brought up here on the 8mm forum. I also have a pretty good video projector, but other than this sentence(I felt that I needed to mention it), I would never bring the subject up here on the forum. Please guys, I know that you're happy about the quality, and feel the need to share this info, but use some self restraint and don't forget where you are...an 8mm film forum. I would rather read no new posts than posts about unrelated items and equipment...just my 2 cents worth....
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on December 13, 2004, 06:26 PM:
I take your point but as 16mm is now incorporated on this site
and I dont think this can be regarded as 8mm exclusive site anymore.
Most if not all collectors use more than one format to view films. There are threads that I do not find particularly useful or relevant but I allow others to share their views and opinions.
This forum is here to debate matters. This issue has raged on for some time and will flare up again and again.
I am trying to find a solution to the matter rather than it becoming the usual slanging match.
Paul has offered to get screenshots for comparison then at least everyone should have the opportunity to see and make up their own mind on the issue.
Video projectors are plentiful but buying is a minefield recommendations/reviews of good and bad would be an useful contribution to many collectors.
Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on December 13, 2004, 06:34 PM:
some photos here
If anyone asks, I'll be in the kitchen, putting my DVDs in the dishwasher and wrapping the Xmas gifts with my precious Mountain Release print of King Kong.
(Dear Brad, feel free to move this thread to the "General Yak" section...)
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on December 13, 2004, 11:26 PM:
*Moving to the Yak forum, since this is not 8mm specific.
*Please upload the pictures to the forum. Linking off-site will produce a broken link sooner or later.
Those screenshots Jean-Marc posted don't really show or prove anything. We have too many variables. First off, there is no proof that some digital touch-ups haven't been going on, so that becomes useless. Second, it just LOOKS like video to me...but then again that may be your digital camera at work, which again makes this useless. Third, the colors are oversaturated, but again this could be your digital camera. Fourth, there is no contrast, again possibly your digital camera.
The only thing screenshots are good for is verifying how badly scratched a film is (but if the scratches move, odds are they won't show up, so even that isn't the best idea in the world). Now if identical pictures had been taken off of the video projector and then off of a film being projected, there would at least be something more to compare.
I'm not taking sides here, but if you put a properly set up (often modified) Super 8mm image up against a DVD as source material, the film is going to win every time (unless it is scratched). However if you don't have the best Super 8mm projector, a DVD projected image may look better than the film. There are just too many variables. Ideally I think both formats can coincide happily in the same room.
Here are some shots from my screening room...
This is a Christie professional 3 chip DLP
Here is a shot comparing the image off of the DLP (right) to the picture off of a very high end LCD video projector.
Another shot of the comparison.
Now the important thing to note here is that while the LCD didn't look bad, when compared to the DLP in these images the LCD looks like CRAP! This is because the DLP was brighter and the camera exposed for the DLP image, thus leaving the LCD not looking too great. The results were not this blatant in person, hence the digital camera is playing tricks on you.
This is a shot running a 35mm print of Blue Hawaii. Notice how nice it looks? Well I've got news for you, the print WAS scratched. However the scratches did not show up in this picture because they were jiggling and the exposure on the digital camera was enough to conceal them.
Here is a shot of Ferris Bueller running. This time you can see the scratches because they were stationary. However there were other scratches on the film that again, did not appear in this picture.
Screenshots really don't prove anything guys.
Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on December 14, 2004, 02:25 AM:
Your equipment is quite impressive...
(O-Ren Ishii in Kill Bill - vol 1)
quote:My thought exactly.
Ideally I think both formats can coincide happily in the same room.
Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on December 14, 2004, 11:44 AM:
At the next gathering of the lightwater 6 I suggest that we get hold of some video projectors- mine is now quite old (Infocus something or other)-and compare them to Mr Faulkner's Xenon.
Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on October 20, 2018, 11:45 AM:
... and yet the question remains. Which is better - Microsoft Windows or Apple OS? Sorry, film or video, Marvel or DC. Everyone pick a side, this means War! It strikes me lately how everything these days has to be either/or, nobody seems to want to like everything. Oh, I forgot the big one: which is better - Men or Women? Why is it always a choice of 2 things...
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