8mm Forum: Film Guard - First Impressions

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Posted by Stewart McSporran (Member # 128) on June 13, 2007, 05:45 PM:

I've just taken delivery of my first bottle of Film Guard.

I have to say I'm pretty impressed. I'd taken the comments about removing base lines with a pinch of salt, but no, running one of my worst prints through Film Guard has turned it from a C quality print to an A. Black and white prints simply sparkle. Way better than Armorall.

So, Dan Simpson, I really recommend you clean the copy of Psychomania you bought from me with Film Guard before watching it!

I've cleaned four 400' films so far and I have had one cement splice fail when running it through the projector. It could just be coincidence.

Now some questions:

1) How long does a coating last? i.e. How often should I reapply it?
2) I'm using kitchen roll to apply the solution. It's taking about two to three minutes for a 400' reel. This means it'll take me about 10 mins to clean a 1600' reel. Any better suggestions for this?

cheers
Stewart

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 14, 2007, 02:51 PM:

Stewart, I've been using Film Guard for the last three years or so and have also been very impressed with it. In my experience, the thing I have noticed most is how a slightly unsteady print with any bounce or weave can look really steady after applying it (and often runs so much more quietly too!)

As for how often to re-apply, this is only my own opinion and experience with Film Guard but prints I coated three years ago still look and run fine, although I suppose it depends on use as these are prints which are only run every so often. I guess if the print was getting heavy use then re-application would be more of an issue.

Again, this really is only my own opinion as I know everyone has their own succesful way of doing things but I have used paper towels in the past and found them potentially a little abrasive. I use 100% cotton handkerchiefs which have been washed a couple of times to get any starch out from new. I only treat about 100ft or so at a time and then move to a clean section; then you can simply wash it when you're done ready for next time! I've used this method for years with great results.

As to how long it takes to treat a print, I know people succesfully use different ways to rapidy apply cleaning / protection fluids, but I think the time you spend patiently treating each print is worth it considering how much long-term protection is actually being given. I suppose it's different if it is a commercial print where time is money and the print is going to get really extensive use but to me when it is a valued print which is just to be enjoyed infrequently then the effort put in to carefully treating it is all part of the fun of using real film at home and worth it when you see your sparkling print up on the screen time and time again [Smile]

Posted by Hugh McCullough (Member # 696) on June 14, 2007, 03:53 PM:

Filmguard, developed over many years by a professional projectionist, and used in many cinemas.
Probably the best film cleaning, and lubricating fluid available.
My method of using it is to use an old, well washed, linen handkerchief.

First place some sheets of newspaper on the table.
Then some kitchen towel folded over about three, or four times.
Place the handkerchief, folded in two, on the towel, and spray all over with the Filmguard.
The newspaper, and towel, are to soak up any excess fluid.
Run the film through the cloth using a hand rewinder at your normal rewinding speed.
After about 200 ft move the handkerchief to a fresh clean portion.
Continue as above until the whole reel has been treated.
If you like you can repeat the operation again when rewinding the reel back.
Wash handkerchief in warm soapy water, rinse well, and store in an old film tin, or similar container. Make sure to label the tin as you do not want it used for any other purpose.

Kitchen towel is not advisable as some makes are quite fluffy, and will leave fluff on the film, and probably cause 'birds nests' in the gate.

Filmguard evaporates very slowly when starved of air, e.g. when wound on a spool. Exposure to air, and the heat at the projection gate does speed up evaporation, but still at a very slow rate.
I find that once every two years treatment is OK on films that have been projected more than a dozen times.

Posted by Stewart McSporran (Member # 128) on June 14, 2007, 04:24 PM:

Thanks guys,

Time to dig out those unwanted Christmas presents!

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on June 15, 2007, 05:37 AM:

I absolutely concur with everything that has been said. The most important thing is to use a lint free cloth, so that fibres of any sort do not adhere to the film surface.

I would certainly steer away from kitchen/paper towels/toilet rolls and the like as they are abundant with fibres, and can, indeed, scratch.

Enjoy your 'revived' movies! [Big Grin]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 15, 2007, 08:45 AM:

Where can i get it? [Confused]

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on June 15, 2007, 09:50 AM:

Hi Tom,

Paul Foster stocks it. Go to www.fosterfilms.co.uk and click on 'accessories' on the left hand side of the screen!

Cheers,

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 15, 2007, 12:39 PM:

Cheers Dave, Will do,

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 15, 2007, 04:46 PM:

My pref has been for FilmRenew but its more difficult to get here in the UK because of the shipping restrictions I will probably have to give FG a try again.

I have heard many say that FilmGuard dissolves tape splices [Frown]

what are the experiences of others using this product?

Kev.

[ January 10, 2008, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: Kevin Faulkner ]

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 16, 2007, 04:01 AM:

Definately not when I've used it Kevin.

Posted by Hugh McCullough (Member # 696) on June 16, 2007, 05:25 AM:

Dissolving tape splices?
I have never come across this, and remember that the professional cinema uses Filmguard. The last thing that we want is splices falling apart.
I imagine that this rumour was put about by someone who either used cheap splicing tape, I have seen sellotape or masking tape used, or could not make proper splices in the first place.

Posted by Bart Smith (Member # 780) on June 20, 2007, 05:31 AM:

Would filmguard be suitable to use as a cleaner if you were intending to do transfers commercially? I wonder if customers would be put off by having their originals returned coated in the stuff?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on June 21, 2007, 01:12 AM:

No FG doesn't dissolve tape splices. The only way I can imagine that happening would be if you completely ignored the instructions enclosed with each bottle and went insane with the application amount. Remember a quart of FilmGuard will outclean a gallon of any other cleaner. To properly clean about 12,000 feet of 35mm film, it takes about an ounce!

Bart, there are many transfer houses using FilmGuard, as well as a few rejuvenation centers using the product with their Lipsner-Smith machines. I would however recommend before putting any product on a customer's film that you check first.

The ideal way to apply FG is to use a Kelmar film cleaning machine. Kelmar only makes them for 35mm and 70mm film gauges, but as you can see below with a couple of bolts and a dozen washers, they are effortlessly converted to run 16mm or 8mm film gauges. Pictured below is a 70mm film cleaner modified to run 16mm film.

The nice thing is that you load up the "media" cloth on it, thread the film through it and as the large film drum spins, it turns the takeup spools of the media so the film is always presented with a fresh piece of cleaning cloth without ANY human effort whatsoever. These machines were initially designed to mount on top of the projector as an "inline" film cleaner to clean the film while it is running, but you can adapt them to rewind benches like was shown here.

If anyone wants to go this route, let me know as I will sell you a 3000 foot roll of 1 inch wide media cloth ridiculously cheap. (The normal rolls are 2 1/8 inch wide, but since my manufacturer's rolls are 10 feet wide and they are slit down from there, there is normally just enough on one end during slitting to make a 1 inch wide slit of media fabric. At one point we were going to make 8/16mm media pre-rolled, but it just wouldn't be profitable. Still I have lots of these rolls sitting around that could only be used by a 16mm or 8mm film collector.)

Posted by Mark Mander (Member # 340) on June 24, 2007, 02:32 PM:

I have also just started using filmguard and have been impressed with the results.However last sunday i cleaned a number of films for a show i was doing for Saturday 23rd,and with mention of the product possibly affecting tape splices i checked the films on the wednesday and all seemed fine.The show began and all is well then the inevitable happened all the splices on a reel of singing in the rain dissolved.This was not a total disaster as i noticed it while loading the film ready for viewing.All the other films seemed to be o.k,and has not put me off using filmguard because the results i saw are excellent.I hope it's a one off but it pays to check the splices anyway or stay clear with any of the cleaners.A great night had by all on the nights entertainment,the first show i had done and i raised over £600 pounds for a childrens hospice in Oxford(brilliant!!!).

Posted by Stewart McSporran (Member # 128) on January 06, 2008, 09:21 PM:

Follow Up -

Last weekend I ran some prints I'd cleaned six months ago. On one of them both tape splices failed. The film around the splices was covered in a sticky goo, as if a solvent had been applied.

I'd applied Film Guard with a lint free cloth, but I'm wondering if I put on too much.

Is it possible to apply too much Film Guard, or is this just coincidence?

One of my friends is an engineer; I think I'll see if we can design a 16mm Film Guard applicator!

Stewart

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on January 07, 2008, 08:21 AM:

That is a bit worrying, Stewart, so this morning I had a look at some trailer reels of mine that were treated with Filmguard about 3 years ago.

They are mainly held together with Wurker splicing tapes, some of the leaders are joined using those wrap around tapes made by people like "Hama" that fit the Wurker splicer.

I've checked several reels (each one has about five or six splices in it) and have to say that all the splices are in perfect order (got my magnifying glass out and everything!)

Some of the reels have had at least a second coat of Filmguard on them and these are perfect too.

So, in my case at least, no problem with Filmguard. [Confused]

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on January 07, 2008, 10:18 AM:

My feeling is that, as previously stated, either cheap splices were used, or else not applied correctly, on films where splices fell apart.

I have had no problems whatsoever with FilmGuard.

It's my guess that those splices which fell apart would have probably done so anyway in time, without the application of FilmGuard - or any other treatment for that matter.

I shall certainly continue to use it with impunity.

Posted by Stewart McSporran (Member # 128) on January 07, 2008, 03:48 PM:

Thanks, looks like it was some dodgy splices then. Other films are fine.

Posted by Hans van der Sloot (Member # 494) on January 09, 2008, 12:35 PM:

I compared the prices and the differences are enormous.
Fosterfilms charges 35,- UK Pounds (= 47,- euro).
In the US you only pay $ 39,- (= 27,- euro) for the same ammount of Filmguard.

Posted by Bart Smith (Member # 780) on January 09, 2008, 01:32 PM:

We sell it in our shop in London for £29.99 inc VAT - more expensive than from the States, but cheaper than from Paul Foster or Jack Roe. I've yet to put it up on the website.

It would be in Brad Miller's interests if he forced Jack Roe (the official distributors) to sell it at a more competitive price. They offered me a dealer price of £30 ex VAT, which is ridiculous.

Bart

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on January 09, 2008, 05:01 PM:

Bart, Which shop is this and where? I work in Soho so may pop over for some.

Kev.

Posted by Bart Smith (Member # 780) on January 10, 2008, 06:20 AM:

You're welcome to pop by Kevin, anytime...

Blue Audio Visual -
44 Duncan St
London N1 8BW
020 7713 6865

We're in Angel, a minute or so away from the tube station.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on January 10, 2008, 06:27 AM:

Hi, Kev

Do you run your Elmo GS1200 in Soho?

Sorry. Couldn't resist it!

Maurice

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on January 10, 2008, 06:35 AM:

Looking back through the posts I also use and like FilmRenew and it does a superb job. Films shine on screen after a clean with this and I am with Kev babes.

Happy cleaning day.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on January 10, 2008, 07:09 AM:

Hi Lee,

I've been trying to get hold of some FilmRenew. Urbanski can no longer at present ship to the UK.

Any ideas on where I could get some over here? I need the larger tins as I need to soak some curled prints.

-Mike.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on January 10, 2008, 08:49 AM:

Maurice, The Xenon light give just the right look to flesh tones [Big Grin]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on January 10, 2008, 09:11 AM:

Kev

You mean the ESC is only suitable for black & white films?

Maurice

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on January 10, 2008, 12:45 PM:

Michael.
No ideas at present matey. Anyone else help Michael?

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