This is topic Blu- Disc not catching on? in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.
To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=001082
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on November 05, 2008, 11:03 AM:
I was in my local Wal-Mart yesterday and noticed that the amount of shelf space that they have allocated to Blu-Ray discs has been reduced dramatically since my last visit. Not sure what this means, but if Blu Disc was really a big seller I would think that they would be increasing shelf space for this item.
Posted by Mark Williams (Member # 794) on November 05, 2008, 11:11 AM:
Hi-Paul,
It's the opposite here,you can now pick up discs in your local Woolworths or Tesco's,mind you the staff don't have a clue what they are though!!!
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on November 05, 2008, 11:16 AM:
Maybe people are happy enough with the current DVDs that they aren't buying all the hype!
For me what makes DVDs "better" than VHS is the random access and extra content, much more than the improved picture, which is not really apparent on a standard sized TV anyway. Does Blu-Ray have features comparably better than DVD?
The funky part is the odd feeling I get sliding a VHS into the player these days. You would think somebody that projects Super-8 a couple of times a week would be immune!
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 05, 2008, 11:48 AM:
This is very interesting, as I saw a yahoo report about something that i talked about on this very forum. I compared the blu-ray to the Laserdisc.
The yahoo articles title was, "Is Blu-ray the new laserdisc?" and it was quite interesting.
I'm sure I'm like a lot of others who are buying these 1080p DVD players that upgrade the DVD image a good deal, therefore really eliminating the absolute need for a Blu-ray.
I may buy one sometime in the distant future, but no time soon.
Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on November 05, 2008, 12:25 PM:
Try watching one of the titles from HD Scape if you think there's no difference from DVD. Or one of the Imax transfers.
Blu-Ray is the Todd AO of digital, not the laserdisc.
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on November 05, 2008, 12:49 PM:
I don't think the question is whether or not there is a difference in image quality, but whether the difference is compelling enough to average consumers to make them switch over.
People like us really don't figure in this. Since we tend to obsess on sharpness, color and artifacts on screen as part of our hobby we will notice differences. However, on a day to day basis most people look at images that would make us cringe and don't see a thing!
I call this the "film collector's curse". It's the reason that I can't enjoy a movie that has a line on one edge, but my wife won't even notice it. Much the same way as I saw someone project a VHS ten feet wide recently and nobody but me thought a thing of it!
Who among us hasn't seen a 4:3 image stretched fat to fill a 16:9 TV screen and wondered how people can stand looking at it?!
The change will come though as the "old" format is not available in new titles and the old players die away. The question is what new, new format(s) will come along in the meantime.
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on November 05, 2008, 01:34 PM:
Steve, your comment about the 4:3 stretched image really hit home with me. Just about everywhere I go, doctors offices, auto service stations, airports, you name it, they all have that 16:9 LCD panel hanging on the wall with the 4:3 image stretched out to fill it. So everyone on the TV looks 100 lbs overweight - and nobody seems to notice! What does that tell you about Americans!
Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on November 05, 2008, 01:41 PM:
I have a standard 480P DVD Player and a non HDTV Plasma TV.
While I think the picture is good enough for the garbage on cable tv and the random DVD I put in..I did manage to see a 1080P HDTV Sony Wega 52 inch with Blue Ray disc of "Last Samurai". The scene with the Cherry Blossoms in the background was really stunning. Put my picture to shame. But like Steve said...its still not enough for me to dump all my gear. Maybe in a few years...once the dust settles a bit.
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on November 05, 2008, 02:31 PM:
What does that tell you about Americans?
Maybe we eat too much!
When you look at William Shatner these days he always looks stretched to 16:9!
(Technically a Canadian, though..)
We have this little DVD viewer my son uses in the car. It has this switch marked "Widescreen Mode" which does the stretch. I didn't know what it was so I tried it.
-Afterwards I said "That just isn't right!".
Maybe with a sensible diet and more excersise we'd know when our pictures are the wrong aspect ratio.
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on November 05, 2008, 02:57 PM:
Blu-Ray has been slowly increasing in numbers the price of players are coming down and more discs are filling the shelfs, however the marketing side is non-existent, so for me I will sit on the fence for a while longer and see what happens.
The comments about Joe public that cant see anything wrong with an image is spot on, funny thing about 8 years ago I arrived one night at the cinema the projectionist had wandered of somewhere ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
and one of the movies was running in W/S instead of "Scope" the image as you can guess was stretched "looked awful" I thought I better fix things put it into Scope "thats better" and offered free tickets to the people coming out..saying sorry about that. They looked surprised at me ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
as they had not noticed that anything was wrong and that was for over an hour .
As far as Super8 is concerned I go into total "panic mode" if I see a scratch ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
and spend the entire time watching it.. yes its gone... now its back etc etc, and not the movie...what sad case eh!
Graham. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by David Park (Member # 123) on November 05, 2008, 03:19 PM:
I think it may well take HD TV programmes to come in as the norm, then when people see that HD TV is better than normal TV and DVD then they will want Blu-ray.
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on November 05, 2008, 03:27 PM:
All it may take is for people to think Blu-Ray is better (...even if it really IS better!).
-that's where the Marketing comes in.
You have to be a little scared for people who are on TV and the people who do their makeup once this big screen/Hi-Def thing really gets going.
Every close-up will bring:
"Jeeze!, what huge pores she has! It's kind of gross!"
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 05, 2008, 04:12 PM:
Graham ...
I am one in the same. Sometimes I completely forget the film I am watching, and just look at color, scratch level, ect.
I must admit, strangely enough, that I don't get off on that as much with Black and White prints. I think this could be that for some reason, I feel that the scratch SHOULD be there, and this becomes even more apparent with silent movies, as I feel that the scratches are quite right with silent movies , giving a pseudo feeling of great age to the print. Strange, eh?
The only time when I've felt that way about a color print is with my EXTREMELY scratched edited copy of "Magical Mystery Tour" which is in stereo, and for some odd reason, I don't mind the excessive scratching and color loss. Once again, I have to chock it up to the film being an artifact of a specific time and so the scratches don't take away but enhance the enjoyment of the film.
... strange but true!
Posted by Charles Bramlett (Member # 1246) on November 05, 2008, 08:40 PM:
" When you look at William Shatner these days he always looks stretched to 16:9!"
I hope I look that good at 77. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Anyways, I don't think BluRay is catching on like they had hoped because people just see it as a better DVD. The difference in the formats isn't anywhere near as staggering as DVD/VHS was. Also, by the time DVD came along VHS had been the standard for casual movie-buyers for 20 years.
It's funny... while much of the world is pondering the BluRay upgrade, I'm discovering Super8 for the first time. There might be something wrong with me. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on November 05, 2008, 08:53 PM:
Steve and Paul- (Please exuse the over-use of all capitals, but this is a huge pet-peeve of mine)
About those over-stretched images:
THAT TOTALLY DRIVES ME CRAZY!
But, whats even worse, is when the picture is ALREADY letter-boxed. So, instead of just enlarging the whole picture to fit perfectly on the screen, the whole picture is just stretched- BLACK BARS AND ALL!! To me, thats just BEYOND REDICULOUS.
And just try explaining it to the average Joe. They wonder what your even talking about.
JAMES.
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on November 05, 2008, 09:22 PM:
My wife impressed me though...
We were watching "The Sound of Music" last night on DVD and they reformatted it from 'scope to fill a 16:9 letter box.
Out of the blue she said "This looks squished!"
I said "You've been hanging out with the wrong crowd..."
(That "crowd" being ME!)
James, I hear what you say!
I was watching a movie at my sister's house recently and somehow it wound up both letter boxed and pillar boxed! There was almost more blank screen than picture...
Posted by Robert Wales (Member # 502) on November 05, 2008, 10:31 PM:
A DVD that comes up letterboxed and pillarboxed on a widescreen tv hasn't been given the proper anamorphic encoding in the transfer process ( also known as 'enhanced for 16:9 televisions', depending on how they choose to label it ). It happens a lot when a studio recycles an older transfer and most often in the supplements of proper widescreen dvds ( presumably to keep the costs down of mastering anamorphically. )
Posted by Barry Attwood (Member # 100) on November 06, 2008, 01:50 AM:
I think one of the reasons for Blu-Ray not taking off as quickly as a lot of people thought, is the fact that the average household, would not only have to buy a Blu-Ray player, but a new HD TV as well, I know the players are gradually coming down in price, but a decent size 1080p (why anyone would go for the "HD" ready lower lines is a mystery to me, if you're going to have HD then go the distance and get the best) TV is still pretty dear, so an overall package can come in at a pretty hefty cost, and that's before you buy any discs. We still use a conventional TV (not even 16/9), a multi region DVD player, although we do have a nice surround system, and at this point I am quite happy, sure I would like to upgrade, but until a combo set up comes into my price range, then Blu-Ray will just have to wait.
Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on November 06, 2008, 03:08 AM:
I have a Blu-ray Disc Player. This is so I can watch my collection of "standard" DVDs being uprated to my HD Plasma.
But I do not own any Blu-ray discs. My love for old movies and short films means that these will probably never make it to being released on the Blu-ray format.
And even if they do there would be no point in buying them again in the new format.
Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on November 06, 2008, 03:08 AM:
The answer to that Barry is that smaller televisions can get away with lower resolution. There's little point in buying a 19 inch widescreen TV and having 1080 lines on it as the difference at that size will be minimal, possibly non-existent. By putting fewer lines on the set means the manufacturers can sell it cheaper.
Shame HD DVD didn't win out as that was a more suitable format.
Posted by David Park (Member # 123) on November 06, 2008, 03:29 AM:
Well I'm very happy with my expensive (was £1500) a few years old 32" w/s Panasonic, non of the flat screen LCD/Plasmas can match if for normal TV standards. So I can only guess but I don't think HD TV set when working HD will be such better than it. So I will keep on as now for a bit longer.
Regarding Blu-ray players are they multi region?
As they are major branded Sony/Samsung I am worried that they will only play UK region and I would want USA region as well like on normal DVD.
At first with normal DVD players they were UK only, then came cheaper ones with brand names never heard of before with a 'secret' menu and 2 presses of the RC made them multi region.
Posted by Mark Williams (Member # 794) on November 06, 2008, 04:06 AM:
Hi-David,
I think you will be pleasantly surprised,HD will knock your socks off when you see it!!
Yes BD players are regionally coded region A in the US and region B for europe etc but you will find that the majority of the US discs are region free so its really not a problem.
Cheers Mark W
Posted by Christopher P Quinn (Member # 1294) on November 06, 2008, 07:54 AM:
I think you have to remember that there is a credit crunch on at the moment, i prefer the old fashion term recession myself. This is going to slow down BD sales. But here in the UK it is catching on, and as soon as more newly released films come out on BD this will gather momentum. Blockbuster dvd rental giant now stock Blu rays.
John,
I am shocked that you preferred HD Blimey mate. HD, although i agree was better while BD was sorting it self out, BD will give the average punter much more.
Already BD has morphed its self to BD live with the new profile 2.0 upgrade and that will transform the way you can watch films, with interaction taken to another stage. Menus are no longer slow clunking things that hold up the film, and can be accessed easily while the film is still running.
As far as quality goes BD v DVD, there is no question that BD is far superior in many ways, and upscaling your old DVD collection is a added bonus. I am chomping at the bit here to go 1080P with projection, I was viewing my favorite all timer yesterday The Wizard of Oz, and thinking how good will this look on BD. My special edition DVD is quite good, but when Dorothy moves away from the screen you loose the checks in her dress, it's almost like she has changed into a plain blue dress, in BD this will not happen. surely this can only be good, along with the better colour representation, and sound, BD is unquestionable the way forward for digital entertainment.
I believe that we as film collectors, should keep the two formats separate. Digital has it's own look and although can be made to look more filmy, i have to ask is there a point. I liked Tony Milmans remarked about running a green felt tip pen down one side of the screen Seriously i prefer film and noisy projectors and DVD for that latest blockbuster. I spend hours fiddling trying to get the colour/contrast right, but not necessarily to match real film, just so it looks natural as possible. Which it a bit strange when modern films are nothing but natural, every scene the director has used a different colour filter, and the Wizard of OZ's Technicolor extravaganza is hardly natural, although great to look at.
Chris..
BTW, Before i get told, i know the Wizard of Oz is at this moment in time not available on BD in either 16:9 or 4:3
Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on November 06, 2008, 08:22 AM:
My two cents worth...
1. The stretching of the image on widescreen tv's at restaurants , etc....does drive me stark raving mad crazy. The problem is that those who work there don't have any idea how to set the picture ratio....and get used to it and forget it.
2. Hi def tv is a huge improvement over standard TV....no doubt. Once you have it, you never want to look at that old tv again.
3. I suspect many with Hi def sets will be asking for a blu ray player for Christmas. I already have.
4. Film still rocks and still is my favorite way to watch and collect. My recently acquired stereo/scope print of Tomorrow Never Dies is so sharp , with such great sound that I feel like I'm in the theater watching it for the first time. Love to fiddle with the film and the machines, too.
Posted by Christopher P Quinn (Member # 1294) on November 06, 2008, 08:44 AM:
As a foot note on aspect, I am aware that there is a problem with HDMI and aspect ratios. Basically you cant change the aspect from 16:9 to 4:3. If this is on all machines i don't know, but my panny when connected through the HDMI socket will not change, so have to use standard connection to get aspect control. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
This will stop me dead in buying if i can't get aspect control. Wizard of OZ in 16:9 I don't think so. ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
Chris.
Posted by Christopher Way (Member # 1328) on November 07, 2008, 04:43 AM:
Dare I come in here, . Personally, having read up on Blue Ray when it was brought onto the market, I felt it really had not advantages to anyone except the retailer. The name Blue Ray is only taken from the fact that the player has a blue ray (violet coloured) strobe, rather than the normal red. The discs are the same, but by using a costly BD Disc, and a costly BD Player up to an HD TV is really no different than using a normal DVD Player, through an HDMI Lead into your television. The latter is what brings it in to play I believe. I have a Toshibi LCD 1920 x 1080 which again, in my opinion gives the same result as one would get with BD.
In theory, the BD can store more data information than a normal DVD, upto 6 times the capacity. This obviously allows more data to enhance the production viewing of the BD, but one has to have the associated equipment withit. Myself and friends have viewed a BD Disc through a large projector on to a drop down screen 8 x 4. Again, we saw no difference in playing the same disc but a normal DVD.
This is probably what is holding up sales of the BD Disc and the equipment. One goes to the Electrical Retailers, such as Comet, and you are told that normal HD Equipment with HDMI, and the sales of normal DVDs are up on BD Discs and equipment.
The snag arises when such studios as Warner Brothers, as of March this year will only release films on BD. This in my mind could have the problem of forcing people to change, when they have perfectly good equipment.
A bit like Sky and Virgin telling people they need there systems for the change over to digital, when it can be put through a normal aerial upgraded, or at the most a digital box.
Regards, Chris
Posted by David Park (Member # 123) on November 07, 2008, 05:04 AM:
BD ?
A few of you here using this term, what does it mean, is it official to mean BluRay DVD?
I not seen BD used before in other places.
Posted by Mark Williams (Member # 794) on November 07, 2008, 05:23 AM:
David,BD is the standard short term for Blu Ray,probably used more stateside than here in the UK.
I just read that the BD of IRON MAN shipped 500,000 units in the US a few weeks ago this has just set a new record for Blu Ray!!!
Chris,
Great to finally speak to you,don't worry I won't bite LOL!!
I beg to differ here but the difference between a standard DVD and a HD BD disc is staggering!! and if you project a BD in HD on an 8 x 4 screen you can really tell the difference believe you me.
I don't mean to sound rude here but I,m really surprised you can't tell the difference between the two mediums??
With regard to it being costly I would say that in the next few weeks you will really see some great deals on players and disccs coming thru,Blockbuster are doing a Samsung player and 4 discs for £199 which aint arf bad.
I pick up most of my discs on EBAY very cheaply and actually paid 0.99p this week for a sealed BD of NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN now that is really cheap as chips.
Cheers MW
Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on November 07, 2008, 06:40 AM:
There is also the question of want and need. Yes I would love a BlueRay player and the discs for it but for now I'd rather keep my money in my pocket. Besides I cant record on blueray yet and I'm more than happy with standard DVD.
Graham S
Posted by Christopher P Quinn (Member # 1294) on November 07, 2008, 07:06 AM:
Mark,
I think Chris was talking about the difference in BD and a DVD being upscaled, I think. I would love to get the chance to compare that, but can't see how the DVD could be as good as a BD. I can slightly upscale, when i do the picture does have more detail, but more artefacts as the original bitrate stays the same, you can't add more info. On a BD disk you have up to 40 Megabits per second against DVD with up to only a max of 11 megabits per second.
The next step up is SUPERVISION with a resolution of 7680 x 4320
Posted by David Park (Member # 123) on November 07, 2008, 07:09 AM:
Graham is it just that you havn't got a recording machine?
I'm sure I've seen BD recordable discs on the internet.
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 07, 2008, 10:14 AM:
and then, there is a 1080p regular DVD players. The day after Thanksgiving, Radio Shack (locally) is selling the up-converting to 1080p regular DVD players for 29.00 dollars! I've seen these players hooked up to a Hi Def TV (with regular DVD and up-converting DVD player side by side, and there is a nice difference, which leads me to honestly say, what's the point at getting the Blur-ray anytime soon?
That, and there really has to be enough films out there to actually buy on Blu-Ray for me. I rarely see films that I would shell out the bucks for these days. Indiana Jones 4 was the first one (new films, not classics), that I have bought in almost a year!
Perhaps, sooner or later, everything will shift to Blu-Ray, but until then, I see no need to.
Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on November 07, 2008, 11:50 AM:
I have been using an Optoma 1080p capable projector for the last six months or so. I was going to use it with my old Sony DVD player until I invested in Blu-ray, but with HD-DVD being sold off so cheaply, as an interim I bought a cheap HD-DVD player.
The idea was to see what HD material looked like (buying up a few cheap HD-DVDs) and to use the player as an upscaler for my standard discs.
Firstly, I have found the difference between standard DVD and HD-DVD dramatic on a large screen.
Of course, HDMI is required to carry the HD information, but it is the quality difference on the discs that makes the difference.
I have found up-scaling a mixed bag; most standard DVDs do look sharper BUT, as has been mentioned, many suffer from the introduction of additional artifacts, the most annoying being the appearence of frequent "jaggies" on vertical lines.
Recently a well known publication in the UK ran a test on a range of standard DVD up-scaling players. Their conclusion was that whilst all did the job, only a £400 pioneer really passed all the criteria for doing the job properly. In other words, the player may up-scale on paper, but the results can vary wildly.
My experience of my Toshiba HD-DVD player backs this up. It does up-scale, but often not well, improving certain aspects of the image whilst playing havoc with others. Add to that the fact that it fails to get real detail out of dark areas of the picture (my six year old Sony which only outputs a bog standard 576i signal has much better detail in dark scenes and despite looking softer, has a much smoother, more pleasing image from most standard DVDs).
So, for me, the next step is a DECENT Blu-ray player which not only plays Blu-ray discs well, but also up-scales DVDs...and does a PROPER job of it!
And therein is a bit of a problem - after a lot of research, non of the current models really seem to do this and I'm waiting for the next range of players (there is a promising pioneer due out any day).
Annoying really as having seen what HD content looks like, I really want to get on with Blu-ray, but if I'm going to invest, it really has to be the right player.
To me, HD content is the closest video format ever to compare with watching, say, really good 16mm film at home (I think claiming it looks like 35mm is pushing it ) and it would be a massive shame if Blu-ray fails due to poor marketing.
[ November 07, 2008, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: Rob Young. ]
Posted by Charles Bramlett (Member # 1246) on November 07, 2008, 02:49 PM:
Christopher P Quinn- Does your player not have the option to change the aspect ratio? My DVD player uses an HDMI connection... but for 4:3 movies all I have to do is select "Vertical Fit" to watch the movie in the proper aspect ratio.
Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on November 07, 2008, 07:52 PM:
Any decent display will be adaptable to the native image from the disc / disc player.
Nothing to do with HDMI connectivity.
With current technology the least of your worries should be getting the image the right shape
Posted by Christopher P Quinn (Member # 1294) on November 08, 2008, 01:58 AM:
Charles & Rob,
First of all, i don't seem to have vertical fit on my unit, only 4:3 pan & scan 4:3 letterbox & 16:9, so this could be the problem. I have though heard of aspect problems before and thought this was a problem with HDMI connection. I will have to investigate more. Funny thing is the projector will not change aspect at all in HDMI, but in component it will and the 4:3 looks fine.
Rob, Please could you tell me the pioneer player you are looking at, I was looking at the Panasonic DMP-BD35. But, after reading your post i am now thinking harder about the player i need to get.
I was even thinking PS3. I think now it is best to buy as best as i can, rather than be disappointed later on.
Cheers,
Chris.
Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on November 08, 2008, 04:32 AM:
HD DVD had backwards compatability with DVD. By that I mean the labs set up to press/stamp DVD could also cope with HD DVD. Blu-Ray has meant a complete overhaul of the systems used. Hope that clears up any misaprehensions about my last post.
Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on November 08, 2008, 04:48 AM:
Hi Christopher. The pioneer is the BDPLX71. There is a review by What Hi-Fi which gives it the thumbs up but sadly doesn't look at the up-scaling performance in any depth. Unfortunately it retails at £600 currently. Waiting for more reviews and hopefully a demo.
The Panasonic range do get great reviews as Blu-ray players and I know the BD-35 can be found at around £200 which has to be a bargain.
It is just my view (I am a bit hard to please! ) but reviews I have read on later Panasonic models like the BD-50, whilst again giving it the thumbs up as a Blu-ray player, mention that it still doesn't quite cut the mustard as an up-scaler. If you have a look at www.homecinemachoioce.com (a magazine I have bought for years and whose tests are very good) they state that the BD-50, "marginally failed the HQV Benchmark "jaggies" test".
Alright, I know it says "marginally"; but from a £400 machine???
Also I know many people use the PS3 and love it and I totally respect their views. But for me it seems like a stop-gap solution when there should be more, better stand-alone players on the market.
That's my main frustration with Blu-ray; there should be more players from more manufacturers out there before it is too late.
Posted by Christopher P Quinn (Member # 1294) on November 08, 2008, 05:23 AM:
quote:
HD DVD had backwards compatability with DVD. By that I mean the labs set up to press/stamp DVD could also cope with HD DVD. Blu-Ray has meant a complete overhaul of the systems used. Hope that clears up any misaprehensions about my last post.
John,
In your original post you said quote:
Shame HD DVD didn't win out as that was a more suitable format.
Still not sure why you feel this way, unless you are a manufacturer of DVDs. But i wouldn't put that pass you.
Rob, Cheers again, I am now thinking if her indoors will except the fact that we need to have this. I doubt it, but working on it.
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on November 08, 2008, 07:15 PM:
Best thing for Blu-Ray would be to allow the Chinese to make them cheap and get the format going big time in homes and I expect the main boys would actually then sell much more product as the whole thing evolves and many folks still go for branded products.
Theres protectionism going on that is actually stiffling the format big time I think.
Best Mark.
PS theres still no actual catagory on ebay UK for BR either oddly, you would think the BR chaps would be on to them as that would help.
Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on November 09, 2008, 03:19 AM:
Pretty much it Chris. My releases are pressed by Sony so Blu-Ray is currently far too expensive. HD DVD would have been little different as it's compatible with DVD and all the labs were geared up for it. Undoubtedly a more suitable format to supplant DVD and it is generally suspected dirty tricks went on to foister Blu-Ray ahead of HD DVD.
Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on November 09, 2008, 05:04 AM:
You guys have me totally lost with all this technical talk. I have no idea what upscaling is or HDMI or 1080p or anything. Is there an idiot guide on the web you can point me to?
Infact, better still, just tell me what to buy
Posted by Christopher Way (Member # 1328) on November 09, 2008, 11:35 AM:
Thank you for all your views, comments and ideas. I am still not convinced at present to the BD system, when I feel I can get the same response using HDMI upgrade into my system. Secondly, what do I then do with all the normal DVDs I have now. Can I play them on BD.
Regards, Chris
Posted by Mark Williams (Member # 794) on November 09, 2008, 11:52 AM:
No probs,Yes the great thing about the BD players is that they are backwards compatable so you can play your old dvds and upscale them to 1080p no problem.
My dvd of WAR OF THE WORLD looked great when I watched it on the projector the other night.
Cheers MW
Posted by Chip Carpenter (Member # 1330) on November 09, 2008, 11:57 AM:
quote:
Secondly, what do I then do with all the normal DVDs I have now. Can I play them on BD.
While not mandatory - most Blu Ray players will play regular DVDs and CDs. Some even upscale regular DVDs, others play other computer formated files (wma, etc).
Chip
Posted by Christopher P Quinn (Member # 1294) on November 09, 2008, 01:12 PM:
Ah got you now John. say no more...
I can't say much about BD as i haven't got the means yet of experimenting, in fact i have no means at all, and these silver discs keep falling off the Sankyo 700
But, I'm still positively thinking that BD is going to give me some great results, over DVD.
Interestingly Sony have stated that BD will be the last in the DVD silver disc technology. No more spinning discs. A kind of memory card system is already being tested in the labs.
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on November 09, 2008, 01:26 PM:
So we all go out and buy BD movies and BD players, and then 5 years from now we are expected to do it all over again with a new memory card system? Count me out!
Posted by David Park (Member # 123) on November 09, 2008, 01:26 PM:
Interestingly Sony have stated that BD will be the last in the DVD silver disc technology. No more spinning discs. A kind of memory card system is already being tested in the labs.
------------------
Chris Quinn Rides again.
Oh dear I feel another system war is ahead of us.
Posted by Chip Carpenter (Member # 1330) on November 09, 2008, 02:41 PM:
woo-hoo! another opportunity to be an early adopter of a technology that has a 75% chance on not becoming a widely adopted standard!
Chip
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on November 09, 2008, 03:17 PM:
On that front then I think std DVD is going to win and win big time. Its tangiable its round and shiney and nice to handle and own.
I think if they go down the chip,/ card storage route they will drop a clanger.
Best Mark.
Posted by Christopher Way (Member # 1328) on November 09, 2008, 03:38 PM:
To continue on. I therefore think it will be sometime before I upgrade any further. I have just purchased a Samsung HTX810R 2.1 Sound Bar Home Theatre System w/Upscaling 1080P DVD Player. It gives me the picture and sound I want on my Toshiba 37" LCD 1080P television.
It is a case of watch and listen and see what come out.
Regards, Chris
Posted by Christopher P Quinn (Member # 1294) on November 09, 2008, 04:07 PM:
They are looking at Terabytes of information on one card as the system will run at between 200 & 600 Megabytes a second and that is way away, so your ok Chris keep the discs spinning.
I think that this is why there will be always collectors of film, unlike discs and memory cards you can hold it up to the light and see the film, this makes collecting film special to me, i have seen the light and am now going to check out some film.
Chris.
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on November 14, 2008, 08:00 PM:
You would think, by now, that the studios would be releasing much of their studio classics on Blue Disc, but its just not happening. I just searched Movie Unlimited Blu Disc data base and they dont even list the MGM classics Singin in the Rain, Show Boat, Meet Me in St Louis etc. It looks to me that it just is not going to happen. Maybe the studios have concluded that most collectors of classic films will not spring for replacing all their DVD titles with Blu Discs. Which leaves most BD titles modern action/adventure/ hooror-gore films aimed at the youth market and gamers who have PS3's. Since 95% of my DVD collection is from the Hollywood Classic era, this is one more reason for me not to be too anxious to jump onto Blu ray. Not only that, the studios are still releasing really great new titles and box sets on DVD, which are not being made available on Blu Disc!
Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on November 15, 2008, 08:00 AM:
Very good points there Paul.If i recall Adventures of Robin Hood and Casablanca made it on HD DVD in the USA;anyway.However pity us in the UK,in my view we will NEVER see those titles released on blu ray,though mind you THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL (1951),will be out here next month.As for the titles you mention i would love to see them here in the UK on blu ray.The std dvds are being sold off for peanuts.Andy.
Posted by Alan Hayes (Member # 1353) on November 15, 2008, 08:14 AM:
There are more vintage and veteran films being issued on Blu-ray now, but I would imagine the biggest problem with making those sorts of releases viable is that the format relies heavily on the tastes of young video gamers - the target audience for the PS3 console. Hence we get lots of recent, CGI-packed fare that they might buy.
I'm sure the trend will be bucked eventually, but when you can pick up a DVD film for a fiver or less a couple of months after release, you've really got to want the improved resolution of BD as you'll be paying between £10 and £25 more on the high street.
For the record, I'm a PS3 owner who doesn't play video games, and I have a BD collection of some 50 discs.
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 15, 2008, 09:35 AM:
Alan had a good point. I rarely buy even DVD brand new. We have a pawn shop here in town (reliable, honest one too, no stolen merchendise), and they get nearly all the big name brand new DVD's within a month or so, for four bucks. Box Sets for 10 or so dollars.
Why pay more for items other than film?
Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on November 15, 2008, 09:43 AM:
I see the point about the tastes (or lack of same) of the gamers, but the the PS3 is but one of the quite a few Blu-Ray players out there.
The Blu-Ray format is aimed across the board for all the compatible players, so I think the economics of restoring and remastering an older film plays a bigger role in what to release initially.
With the digital internegative becoming a fairly common thing in filmmaking, it is comparatively easier to generate a file to transfer and make a very clean Blu-Ray of a new film than having to go back and be faced with three old B/W workparts like they did when reassembling "The Searchers." That's just the financial angle.
But the classics are slowly being done. "That's Entertainment" all three parts are out now, and "Singing in the Rain" is coming.
I think it's the dribble-down effect: get the more recent stuff out of the way first and then 'dig deeper' in the archive.
And the PS3 is still the best player out there, from my experience. I haven't had a single issue with any disc I have played, and they load fast.
Claus.
Posted by Mark Williams (Member # 794) on November 27, 2008, 09:15 AM:
Splendid news!!!!
http://www.hollywoodinhidef.com/blog_detail.php?id=249
***
November 26, 2008
Blu-ray Sales Sail To All-Time Highs
by: Scott Hettrick
Further confirmation that Blu-ray sales continue to surge:
* Blu-ray had its best month of sales ever in October, with consumers buying 2.3 million discs, according to Home Media Research. That's the first time disc sales have surpassed the 2 million mark in a single month and it's nearly five times greater than the 470,000 discs purchased in October 2007.
* For the year so far, Blu-ray disc sales are running about four times higher than in 2007.
* Blu-ray disc sales have crossed the 20 million mark since the format was introduced, with 14 million of those (70%) sold this year.
* In October the 1,000 Blu-ray title was been announced for release.
And all of that is in the U.S. alone. Elsewhere the picture is even brighter in some countries such as Japan, where Blu-ray hardware sales already represent more than 50% of the total optical disc market and are expected to increase heading into the peak selling season. According to the Japan Electronics and Information Technology Industries Association, Blu-ray recorder and player shipments reached 138,000 units in the 12 months ending in September, or 107 times the previous year's tally. It also noted that Blu-ray hardware now accounts for 31% of all home entertainment recorder and player sales.
Meanwhile, back in the U.S., Wal-Mart recently announced a big expansion of its Blu-ray Disc inventories and reported a 2.4% gain in same-store sales during October.
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on November 27, 2008, 09:49 AM:
Mark, I can tell you that, at least here in Orlando, the Wal-Mart's have downgraded their store displays of Blu-Ray discs and players. In fact you will have a hard time here finding a good sampling of BD players to pick from - just one or two scruffy looking players sitting by themselves. And the shelf space that they have allocated to Blu -disc movies has shrunk significantly in the last few months. I still have the impression that regular DVD is going like gangbusters and sales of DVD's and DVD players are overwhelmingly much higher than Blu -Ray, even though Blu-ray sales are increasing a little. I think the present economic crisis will cripple significant future expansion of Blu-ray, with very few people being willing to sink hundreds of dollars into a new disc format when they are perfectly happy with what they have in regular DVD. And, by the time this economic mess is over, there will probably be a new format out!
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 27, 2008, 10:01 AM:
Though I'm the last one to trumpet Blu Ray, I have noted that the players are becoming far more affordable, some being on sale for 139.00. I'm going down for the special sale at Radio Shack where, they are selling the 1080p ungrade DVD players for 29.00
tommorow!
Posted by Mark Williams (Member # 794) on November 27, 2008, 10:08 AM:
Guys,
I have to admit to being rather surprised with this latest news too,I was really expecting the exact opposite in this dire economic climate,but I suppose people can still afford the odd luxury occasionally.
Here in the UK they are really pushing the format now which they didnt bother to do last year when BD was originally launched,who can resist a Sony BD player and 6 top titles for £199!!
Cheers Mark W
Posted by Christopher P Quinn (Member # 1294) on November 28, 2008, 09:18 AM:
I agree Mark, I'm picking mine up on the 1st, can't wait.
How the West was Won is now available on Blu ray, and is suppose to be amazing. 3 film strip Cinerama is released in Widescreen 2.89:1 aspect. The joins from the 3 camera process have been all but eliminated and the colour restoration is stunning. This is the comments i have read so far, and i will be asking for this to be in my stocking this Xmas.
I'm not sure what's happening in your neck of the woods Paul, but seems to be happening here, recession or no recession. Blu Ray is making headway.
Chris.
Posted by Paul Spinks (Member # 573) on November 28, 2008, 09:58 AM:
Most DVD sales in the UK are from supermarkets (Tesco, Asda,etc;) and high street stores like Woolworths. I have to agree with Paul that the shelf space given to Blu Ray is significantly smaller than for normal DVD's. It is larger in the more specialist stores but that is hardly proving mass market appeal is it.
Paul.
Posted by Christopher P Quinn (Member # 1294) on November 28, 2008, 11:35 AM:
Not surprised about Woolworths as they are now in receivership. Blue ray is still relatively new, a lot of people prematurely bought HD players and are reluctant to replace having spent out. The prices are dropping quickly though and it is catching on. I don’t know about specialist stores as I don’t use them myself, but HMV and Blockbusters if that’s what you mean by specialist stores are going well on them.
It’s only a matter of time before they equal DVD sales although I agree that DVD will hang on for some time yet, it is still a good format and with up scaling it has prolonged there life span even longer. From a DVD projection point, Blu Ray must be the way forward, although I am only going to 720P as I can’t afford the 1080P projector, still, it will still be better than standard DVD, even up scaled.
Chris.
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 28, 2008, 08:37 PM:
Got my 1080p DVD upgrade player. It's quite yummy, as my wife would say!
Posted by Christopher P Quinn (Member # 1294) on November 29, 2008, 07:04 AM:
Nice one Osi, I pick mine up monday and hoping to get the Matrix blu ray box edition. This is a modern classic Si Fi that i just love watching over and over, and better still in Hi Def.
Chris.
Posted by Christopher P Quinn (Member # 1294) on December 02, 2008, 05:19 PM:
Just to be fair. I walked into Tescos last night (local supermarket) to browse the Blu Rays they had started to stock. I was confronted with a shelf full of DVD's and not a BD in sight.
Wonder if i could be wrong.
Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on December 02, 2008, 07:00 PM:
From the US end of things, I just noticed that Costco, the big-box superstore here, has significantly expanded the Blu-Ray row after a small beginning.
I did pick up "The Shining" for $13 as they are finally having some discounted discs. "A Clockwork Orange" was available for the same price. We'll see how the format fares over Christmas.
Claus.
Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on December 03, 2008, 11:17 AM:
Over the holiday weekend, I just had my first view of 1080 Blu Ray on quality equipment. Blows anything short of the best 35mm film right out of the water. If this format catches on, I feel it will bring about the death of Super 8 except for a few of us die hards who like a classic cartoon or old-time movie short at the head of a show.
The prices are coming down, but a reasonable player/projector purchase is still a long ways off for us.
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 03, 2008, 07:40 PM:
I was back in my local Super Wal-Mart today and they have now reorganized their shelves for the Christmas season. So I decided to do a slightly more scientific survey on Blu-disc sales by counting the number of shelf rows they have assigned to regular DVD sales versus those assigned for Blu-disc sales. Each shelf row carried about 8 discs for sale). Here are the results ( drum roll please ):
Regular DVD ROWS: 60
BLU-DISC ROWS: 4
Also,
Number of different DVD players for sale: 20
Number of different BD players for sale: 3
Based on this you might conclude that BD has only established about a 7% market penetration compared to regular DVD.
Posted by Christopher P Quinn (Member # 1294) on December 04, 2008, 12:16 AM:
Paul, I'm surprised at you using a word like penetration!
Yes, i have been looking around and have to agree now that maybe not making as much headway as i thought. But i still think that once the price comes down on discs and hardware then it will start to really kick off. I have a 720P set up now and that is even outstanding and far better than up scaling. Colours sound and picture quality is just so good, I love it.
Blu Ray is only a prelude for things to come, Ultra High Definition is going to be truly amazing!! And the BBC are getting involved in this technology with of course Japan, who else. I just hope i live long enough to see a star trek style holo deck, now how many of us would create a 1930's cinema, we would never come out of it.
Chris.
Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC
UBB.classicTM
6.3.1.2