8mm Forum: Digital Cinema

This is topic Digital Cinema in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 16, 2015, 10:49 AM:

I was summoned last night to go and see the 50 Shades movie at our local multiplex last night by the wife ha ha.

I was working a night shift on Valentine's day itself so I had a bit of making up to do as she was stuck in the house bored on her own on the night itself or so she tells me ha ha.

Anyhow, I think the last actual movie I watched at the cinema was "The Lovely Bones" so it shows I am not much of a cinema goer since the advent of digital projectors in cinemas. The way I have recently looked upon it is, if I want to see a digital film I can show it on my own 10ft screen in the comfort of my own home to an almost identical standard as far as I was concerned.

I have no idea what type of projector our multiplex used,(ironically the multiplex is called Cine World.. Ha..nothing could be further from the truth!) But what I will say is I was very impressed with the presentation overall. The image looked very filmic and the sound system was just superb with no less than 3 centre speakers used from in front of the screen giving great directional sound from the centre channel.
The effects speakers were also very good and the whole thing sounded very contained to my ears.
Obviously this wasn't an adventure action movie I was watching here so you wouldn't expect a thunderous sound track from a movie such as this but as I say, the sound was lovely and clear, very well controlled and not overpowering in any way.
The picture quality to my eyes was spot on also and as said, had an almost filmic quality to it but of course free of any sparkle or speckles unlike film.

I would imagine the projector used was an industry standard 2k machine of ample brightness and the image appeared to me around 24ft wide during the main screening.

All in all a very enjoyable evening...oh and by the way the movie itself was far better than I ever expected also!

With the meal, wine and afters... a very enjoyable evening indeed [Wink]

[ February 16, 2015, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on February 16, 2015, 02:25 PM:

Agree, Andrew -- I find that there is very little, if any, reason to go to the multiplex cinema anymore given the quality of image and sound (plus the absence of sticky floors and obnoxious patrons) that I'm able to achieve in my home theatre. Plus, the wide availability of movies in physical and other media to screen in my home theatre is absolutely astounding. Movies don't tend to have long runs in cinemas anymore, making the wait only a couple of months for any movie to be available to the home market.

With all that said, the last movie I saw in a multiplex was Big Hero 6 -- and the image quality was spectacular (and this is coming from a long-time film collector). Digital projection in cinemas just a couple of years ago wasn't very good, but I could see no fault in the projected digital image this last time. While I still very much prefer my home theatre to the multiplex, my viewing experience with Big Hero 6 made for a very enjoyable afternoon watching a fun movie with outstanding image quality -- and all the digital/film arguments aside, isn't that ultimately what it's all about??

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 16, 2015, 03:19 PM:

Absolutely John as we have both agreed upon before.

Still putting some Super 8 on my screen later this evening though!
Film and film projection is just something indefinable.
It's like an infection! Ha ha

Obviously plenty of others are still suffering from the very same infection, after all how many tickets would £381 buy for a screening of Beauty & The Beast at your local Multiplex?

Also worthy of note is that that amount of money was laid out on an unverified print, although I am sure it will be in superb condition

Posted by Jason Gronn (Member # 3921) on February 16, 2015, 04:18 PM:

Well it has now been three years since l set foot in a cinema since digital took over.
I can't justify the crazzy prices charged these days anyway and why pay to see a digital show when l have the same thing at home and if not better than the cinema, as John said its now only a month or two between cinema release and blu-ray release.
I have a big screen and now upgrading my sound system to a THX Dolby Atmos 7.2.4 for bluray & 3D enjoyment and l can't get that sound at the local.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 16, 2015, 04:41 PM:

You Jason, simply have the best of everything it would seem and good luck to you.

As you say, with that kind of set up...why leave home!! [Wink]

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on February 16, 2015, 06:19 PM:

I've already had an invitation to "pre-order" (I think they mean pre-release order) 50 shades from Amazon.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 16, 2015, 06:37 PM:

Well worth a watch Brian if you can stomach what are after all, traditionally known as "chick flicks". Sounds a little sexist that phrase nowadays I know, but you do have to hold a regard in the higher echelons of cinema history films like "Pretty Woman" or "An officer and a Gentleman" etc etc for this film to be your bag.

If you do, then this is for you, if on the other hand "Trainspotting", "Saw" or " Hostel" is more your thing...forget it [Wink]

Also remember, just to avoid any potential disappointment, that this movie is only part one of an eventual trilogy, therefore do not expect to make any sense whatsoever of the ending...It is after all only "end of part one".

[ February 17, 2015, 04:37 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on February 17, 2015, 04:05 AM:

i love digital projection,and definately in my home cinema. knocks spots off what i have ever had on 8mm or 16mm. and believe me i have had plenty over the years. i do agree though i rarely visit the cinema now. releases on blu ray come quicker these days once a film has had its cinema release. although im a collector of older films. many B/W films look stunning in my home cinema. even the not so brilliant blu ray releases still look far far better than my old 16mm films. but hey.just my opinion.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 17, 2015, 04:12 AM:

Yep you're right Paul, but as I said earlier it is nowhere near as infectious or tactile as a hobby.

There is a certain nostalgic romance with projecting reel film and setting it all up perfectly for a show.
Quite boring really pressing a few buttons on a remote at a plastic box bolted to a ceiling.

Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on February 17, 2015, 05:39 AM:

i still enjoy and look on it as a hobby. i search out blu ray releases from all over the world . many not released here in the uk.i hsve some really lovely titles. and great quality too. when collecting 8 and 16mm i used to love watching the projector and splicing programes together etc.i got more fun from that than actually watching the film itself. im nearly 64 now and i much prefer to watch the film these days. and in superb quality most of the time. i would not want to go back. anyway i was sold too many duff prints over the years.in both quality and condition. no i can honestly say i prefer digital now. something i thought i would never ever say.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 17, 2015, 06:50 AM:

I understand your point of view entirely Paul. For me it's in my DNA this Super 8 melarchy! Lol

I still love to watch movies on my Pannasonic also though, just less often and with far less enthusiasm than on the Beaulieu or Bauer.

Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on February 17, 2015, 07:39 AM:

hi Andrew. i also fully understand your view. at the end of the day we dabble in what we enjoy. and why not. film in any medium has always been a big part of my life. and i wouldnt have wanted it any other way.

Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on February 17, 2015, 08:07 AM:

Film is like a bug that bites and infects you.However, on a visit to the U.S.A. we saw 'The three Musketeers'. Reels of 70mm film lay on the floor of the box (Disney's Christmas Carol) The digital presentation was flawless as was the 3D version of 'Wizard of Oz' in Spain (English Dialogue) last year. I've just bought a box set of 'Scotland Yard', a series of B pictures made in the 50's. The restored picture is pristine, far better than most of my 16mm prints. But just scouring dealers lists for a wanted film alone is more fun than sticking a disc in a slot!

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on February 17, 2015, 09:03 AM:

I love having digital projection in my home. The picture quality with some Blu Rays, such as Oklahoma! or Cleopatra, can literally take your breath away, it is just so beautiful. I am able to watch just about any movie I wish, generally with pristine picture and sound, as good or better than the local movie theater. So there is no way I would want to go back in time and not have digital.
Now as regards film projection, I love that as well. I like the unique mechanical design beauty of film projectors, and really enjoy having them around my screening room. And I love cleaning them, repairing them, and sometimes modifying them to get the very best picture and sound that I can from super 8. I enjoy cleaning and splicing film and loading up the reels on my projector. There is nothing like the look and sound of a sweet running projector, a digital projector by comparison is just a totally uninteresting black box. As far as the viewing of super 8 films, I can still appreciate the unique beauty and superiority of many of my S8 prints in comparison with digital versions. Yes, generally speaking, digital projection will give you a sharper image, but a top notch S8 print on a high end projector with a great lens can still be awesome for me. The interest level with film and film equipment is just so much more than with digital.

Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on February 17, 2015, 09:04 AM:

I agree with your previous posts on this thread, Paul Barker. While I have a warm spot in my heart for film given my many decades in the hobby, the quality of presentation afforded by digital today far surpasses anything I could ever achieve with film, even with the best prints. The quality of film prints varies greatly, and I've seen more bad prints than good, with soft focus, muddy sound -- and this is with good equipment, such as Elmo projectors and high-end amplifiers.

Also, digital affords jaw-dropping restorations given the source material is coming from legitimate origins. A Hard Days Night is an excellent example of a stunning restoration. Honestly, after all these decades, I find it quite liberating to actually watch the movie rather than watch the projector!

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 17, 2015, 10:55 AM:

Whatever type of virus or infection Paul has in his DNA for his love of film and projectors and all things associated with them, mine is identical!

Some scientist in the medical profession must be able to define it surely to goodness. Please somebody just tell us what is, what its called and what can be done about it? Is there a cure? Is it an Engineers disease?
Its costing me a bloody fortune! lol [Big Grin]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 17, 2015, 11:49 AM:

To a certain extent it's just the whole process!

-Pick out some films
-Pull down the screen
-Clean the gates and guides
-power up the projectors
-power up the amp
-thread up
-start a film
-focus, volume, treble, midrange, bass
-repeat as needed...

-then power the whole thing down and put the films away (...eventually!)

This is a way more interactive process than the one that begins with "I can't find the REMOTE again!"

-although, in total honestly there is no way I'd ever build a permanent home cinema without including digital projection.

Sometimes you want to run the movie theater,
Sometimes you just want to watch a movie!

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on February 17, 2015, 01:52 PM:

I think most people on here are infected with them same. Let's hope they never do find a cure. Film just has that special magic, plus the smell and sound of the projector. Oh Bliss. I do miss the cue marks on films too.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 17, 2015, 02:04 PM:

I am glad it's not just Paul & myself then David! [Big Grin]

Posted by Ken Finch (Member # 2768) on February 17, 2015, 02:07 PM:

Hello fellow "cinemaniacs"! This is the word I have used for many years for the "disease" we all suffer from!! Once the bug has bitten it lasts a lifetime. I was bitten at a very early age, had my first projector, a Bing British 35mm "toy" 70 odd years ago at the tender age of 10 and have continued ever since. I wonder if film cement encourages the addiction! However, I agree with all that has been said about digital. Having now past my sell by date, I can watch hundreds of films I could never have afforded to own on real film, in the comfort of my "Retro Roxy" cinema without having to worry about "Losing the Loop", correcting the sound tracking and splices parting etc. The best of both worlds. Ken Finch [Smile]

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on February 17, 2015, 02:26 PM:

I have to agree with everything that has been said here so far; although...the last film I saw at the Manchester Odeon Printworks, Andrew, was Ridley Scott's "Exodus" and it was a little disappointing image wise.

The 3D was ok, but the image in screen 15, was just too low in contrast and revealed it's digital projection origins. A shame, as I've also seen many spectacular digital screenings.

At home, I'm an LCOS digital fan, using JVC projection, having gone through many digital projection systems; even single chip DLP doesn't cut it for me anymore (although I would willingly audition a 3 chip DLP if I had the spare cash!!).

I'm now up to 3 Blu-ray players; each offering various advantages over the other and I love to sit back and watch the latest (well, 2 month old...in Derann's Super 8 heyday, I got excited if the latest release was even 2 years old!! lol! Happy times!) blockbuster at home.

But I still love my super 8 & 16mm. Film really does become part of our DNA, especially if, like us guys, you have dealt with it since being kids.

As Paul and others have pointed out, the joy of running a beautiful projector is often as much fun as watching the film itself.

And sometimes, even super 8 film really does gives digital a run for it's money. And I love showing that to new friends!

We're a crazy bunch here, but I like it! [Smile]

Isn't it brilliant that we can now rival the local multiplex for image and sound at home, and yet still preserve our love and nostalgia for film and the "occasion" of going to the cinema.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 17, 2015, 03:00 PM:

I truly adore the LCOS images I have seen for myself when out and about Rob and whilst the JVC range have come down a little in price I noticed, they are still well out of my reach unless I sold all of my cine equipment and films.

I did it once for a certain XVZ1E in the very early days of the advent of 3 panel lcd home cinema projectors. A whopping 350 lumens ha ha!

I vowed once I got back into film that I would never go down that route again and over the time I have had this time around with film, despite many frustrations at times, I stand by my original decision.

I have far better cine equipment now than I ever had last time and some very nice films indeed so I doubt I will ever change my mind again nowadays.

Also, because the cost of owning a fairly decent digital projector now doesn't mean you have to re mortgage your house,there doesn't have to be those painful no win choices of and/or that we had to make back in the late 90's when digital projector technology was in its infancy for home users.

[ February 18, 2015, 03:13 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on February 19, 2015, 03:38 AM:

Andrew, I too bought the Sharp XVZ1 when it first appeared, thinking it was the answer to all my movie watching dreams.

Then came the reality...dark blotches on the image from dust ingression, with new ones appearing practically every time you switched it on, and nothing you could do to remove them.

Black levels that were murky grey at best.

Failed pixels that shone out like proverbial sore thumbs.

Then a randomly failing input board.

It's fair to say I wasn't impressed with mine! lol!

Thank goodness I was still buying a lot of super 8 at the time to keep me going. [Wink]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 19, 2015, 03:55 AM:

It was ok for the era Rob, you are right about the dust ingress though. I paid £1500 for mine in 1998 from a guy selling it on Loot in London. I was wary when I saw it was for sale with only 38hrs on the clock.He was a company field service engineer so he even demonstrated it in my home before I parted with the hard earned.
He couldn't wait to get his hands on my hard earned as I recall lol.

It now presides in a corner of my wardrobe where it has lived for the past 11years with around 300hrs on it. It's probably not even worth £50 now.

It's funny what we once deemed an acceptable digital image as this machine was only around 450lines and therefore had a pixel grid like a giant game of noughts and crosses on your screen!lol

It also sounded like an aircraft taking off when switched on compared to today's whisper quiet machines.

The VPL10HT soon became the PJ of choice after that. A much better machine on component input than the Sharp...mind you it did have a footprint the size of a football pitch!

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 19, 2015, 04:27 AM:

I don't know if you have that in Anglo-saxon countries but un Belgium and in France we have monthly passes for the videma. For about 20 euros a month, you can Watch (I don't know why my computer automatically put a capital letter on this word) all the "films" you want in the participating theatres. I have sadly to say that my pleasure has dropped a lot since the digitalization (and the mobile phones !) but I still go several times a month in the videmas. I prefer to Watch films in France when I'm there as they have a large choice of films from various countries, films you won't see on tv or would cost you a fortune in dvd. I also enjoy 3d films but there are few of interest, most being computer animated films which I don't like. But the most pleasure I have (out of my own home projections) is when I can attend the monthly 9,5 projection in Paris. What a pleasure to see a real projector and to be able to Watch a film on filmstock. Don't ask me why, it's just what I like.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on February 19, 2015, 04:41 AM:

And that Sir, is why you are an avid member of this forum, just like the rest of us. [Wink]

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 19, 2015, 04:44 AM:

I love this forum.

Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on February 19, 2015, 02:53 PM:

Great thread...and even better to hear from Paul Barker...whom I totally agree with.

How are you doing Paul?

Most will know there was hardly a title I did not own at one time or another 16mm.wise..and a bit in 8mm as well.Still have few bits in 8mm for the memories - but my home screen is digital. I love movies and the ENTERTAINMENT...the entertainment and presentation is the wow factor for me.

Also, agree with Paul about duff copies and bad experiences...boy, I could name a few especially one..it was the reason I left 16mm... anyone interested in knowing more pm me..

[Cool]

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