8mm Forum: Bizarre gauge

This is topic Bizarre gauge in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Antoine Orsero (Member # 41) on May 18, 2015, 05:10 AM:

Found on Ebay: bizarre gauge 16mm

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on May 18, 2015, 05:29 AM:

Very strange, well spotted.

Has anyone seen or even got some of the Chinese 8+mm, is it 8.75mm or thereabouts ? Think so. 1/4 of 35mm.

Best Mark.

Posted by Antoine Orsero (Member # 41) on May 18, 2015, 06:42 AM:

This is a reel of approx 300 ft of special format 16mm film, being sequences from the 1946 British musical feature production The Lisbon Story.
The Harper Film Projection System was never commercially introduced, and equipment is rare or perhaps no longer existing. This film will not run on a normal 16mm projector.
‘Martin Harper, of the Miles Aircraft Company of Woodley, Reading, Berkshire, reasoned that the quality of 16mm Sound on film would be considerably improved if 35mm sound tracks could be directly contact printed, full size, on to 16mm picture prints, and then run, during projection at the correct linear speed for 35mm sound tracks of 18" per second … [which] left the problem of how to marry the 16mm picture speed of 72" per second with the 35mm sound track speed of 18" per second on the one strip of 16mm film. Harper's solution to this problem was to design a special dual purpose film printer for which he obtained a British Patent, applied for on January 4th 1938. To achieve his aim the area available on 16mm had to be reallocated. Edge perforations were no longer used. 3mm each side of the film were reserved for sound tracks leaving 10mm in the centre for the width of the 16mm picture frame. [Originally with two perforations per frame], at a later stage this format was modified slightly to accommodate a third centrally placed sprocket hole, apparently to ease the strain on the film now traveling at the higher speed of 18" per second.’
Conventional films were printed on alternate frame spaces (one set of pictures ‘upside down’ in relation to the other set), with two frames pulled down at each claw stroke on projection. When a reel was finished, it was simply replaced on the feed arm and threaded again. On the second run-through, the alternate pictures of the new scene (and the second soundtrack) were projected.
‘The sole function of the printer and projectors was to reproduce existing 35mm films onto the 16mm gauge with enhanced quality of sound reproduction.’ (Alan Lott) It is not known how many Harper projectors were made or what happened to them. It can now be seen that clever as it was the Harper system was the product of misplaced ingenuity and effort.

Posted by Fabrizio Mosca (Member # 142) on May 18, 2015, 07:29 AM:

Antoine, can you please put the link to the auction?

Very strange, indeed!

Posted by Steve Carter (Member # 4821) on May 18, 2015, 07:36 AM:

Found This;
web page Harper System

Posted by Antoine Orsero (Member # 41) on May 18, 2015, 07:41 AM:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-vintage-film-gauge-Not-28mm-17-5mm-9-5mm-16mm-Harper-Film-System-1940s-/181744735829?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a50d49655

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 18, 2015, 12:37 PM:

THAT is FASCINATING!! It looks as if you get two "features" for the price of one!!! [Smile]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on May 18, 2015, 02:02 PM:

Saves rewinding !!

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on May 18, 2015, 04:04 PM:

It's a clever idea, just like many clever ideas it's not necessarily a good idea, but it is clever.

One thing I'm not clear on here: where's the second sound track? I'd expect it to be on the opposite edge, but I just see three opaque strips.

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on May 18, 2015, 07:38 PM:

The three stripes are the other track. It just doesn't have any modulations at that point.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on May 18, 2015, 08:06 PM:

-so just not a good example?

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on May 19, 2015, 02:11 AM:

I suppose if they'd wound it down a few frames where there were some mods it would have looked more impressive.

Posted by Bryan Chernick (Member # 1998) on May 19, 2015, 01:35 PM:

I see there are bids. I wonder if the bidders actually have a projector to watch it on or do they just want to put it on a shelf.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on May 22, 2015, 11:38 AM:

quote:
It's a clever idea, just like many clever ideas it's not necessarily a good idea, but it is clever.

Polavision was another clever idea, and we all know what happened to that! [Smile]

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