This is topic Italy's totally ****** UP POST!!! in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.


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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 13, 2018, 11:48 AM:
 
Let me say first thing, that the ebay seller, Alberto Vangelisti is not responsible for the terrible Italian post situation! I'll explain ...

I bought a film from Alberto on, I believe, December 4th, and Alberto had it in the actual Italian post by December 6th ...

Then the Italian post threw everyone a major "curve ball".

Unknown to most of the public, (and I only know thanks to Alberto), that the Italian post made some form of deal with Amazon that they would have certain packages that would have a guaranteed delivery date before Christmas ...

What this did was that any packages that were not Amazon, would have to be on a waiting list, in they're storage houses wherever, until all of the Amazon packages were delivered.

What this means is that my package would actually wait all the way until JANUARY 6TH!!!! (that's right ... JANUARY 6th!!), to even leave the shores of Italys post offices and actually make it's way to the U.S. ...

So here I am, still waiting for the package to arrive!!!

I tell you this much, if I do buy off of ebay Italy .... I'll make damned sure, in the future, not to buy during the HOLIDAYS!!!!!! [Mad] [Mad]
 
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on January 13, 2018, 04:44 PM:
 
Sorry to read that Osi.

I was warned by a friend never to buy anything from Italy whether via Amazon or Ebay or any other means as the postal system is said to be a complete nightmare and joke. Even to here in the UK.

I hope your package arrives very soon to the USA.
[Eek!]
 
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 16, 2018, 11:14 AM:
 
Now the seller says that acording to Italian post, it has been delivered. It's been a month and a half. I'm asking for my money back, a complete refund, I mean, you can't blow off a 350.00 dollar purchase.
 
Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on January 16, 2018, 06:08 PM:
 
Those of us who've had Marco make 16mm bits for us haven't had a similar fate so far. Knock on wood!
 
Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on January 20, 2018, 06:23 AM:
 
I've never known anyone have so much bad luck with film deliveries, Osi.

Recalling the fact that a recent package was mistakenly delivered to a store in your town , have you considered this possibility? Just a thought.
 
Posted by Fabrizio Mosca (Member # 142) on January 20, 2018, 10:48 AM:
 
Osi, ask for the tracking code. Even if not insured or marked as tracked, every parcel sent with Italian post can be tracked to the destination. I discovered it when I sent a parcel to Japan last year.
Check also with the tracking site of the American Postal Service, it may be that the shipping may also tracked by them once arrived in the USA (with Japan postal service it worked)
 
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 20, 2018, 11:49 AM:
 
Hey Micheal [Smile]

I never did get that splicer back, which was too bad, as it was great splicer, one of the best. Actually, with all the buying and selling that I do, it's rather rare when this happens, I'm betting maybe one in a hundred purchases or buys.

To answer the other question, yes, I checked every online tracking and otherwise, including harassing our local post office (which could give me no more info than what I could gather online).

Look, if it will help matters, here is the tracking number from the ebay auction ...

CP056662005IT

If ANYONE in Italy or otherwise, can come up with ANY info on the package and as to where it is, I would most certainly be thankful! [Smile]

On another strange note concerning this, I have been granted a complete refund, but it's temporarily on hold as ebay is attempting to verify as to whether the seller has paid the refund ...

??

I always thought that ebay automatically, through paypal or otherwise, would deduct the refund amount from the seller. at least, when I have had refund situations, it immediately comes out of my paypal and always thru my bank account, linked to paypal, of course.

Does this work differently with overseas purchases? Could an overseas buyer verify this? Could an overseas seller block paying back a refund and in those cases, what does ebay do to insure that the buyer gets they're money back?

In closing, the problem with something like this is, say a seller (whether the "overeseas" is the U.S. or elsewhere), can give you a tracking number, which may not even be a tracking number for what you have bought off of ebay, and perhaps have not shipped the item in the first place.

This seller, before now, was most certainly reliable (as i had bought from him OFF ebay and if a person was going to be a thief, they'd do it that way than thru ebay, as it would be much easier to get away with it), and it might just sadly be a lost package in the postal system, in which case, the seller would still be reliable and all the fault would be the postal system.

... but i still sting and remember the STAR WARS super 8 scope print I bought way back in, I think 2005. I didn't buy it off of ebay, and the seller gave me a tracking number, but thier own postal system told me that the tracking number wasn't valid, and in that case, I was out 300 pounds, no small amount.

[Frown]
 
Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on January 20, 2018, 12:07 PM:
 
I think you've had more than your share of bad luck recently Osi so things can only get better, surely.
I recently bought a set of rewinds from Luigi on this forum. They were sent on 3rd of Jan (tracked) and arrived this week within a fortnight, so maybe I was lucky, but Luigi himself admits that Italian post is not good, so potential buyers be warned.
 
Posted by Fabrizio Mosca (Member # 142) on January 20, 2018, 12:56 PM:
 
Osi, it seems that from Jan. 5th it is in the International Exchange Office in Milan (it's not clear whether it's the customs) and I've seen that you may even track from the USPS website:

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction?tLabels=CP056662005IT
 
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 22, 2018, 11:31 AM:
 
Thanks Fabrizio ...

but the problem is ... that's as far as I've ever been able to see the tracking, and not a single mention of it ever making to the U.S.. I'm honestly not expecting it to show up, hence the asking for a refund. [Smile]
 
Posted by Alberto Carlo Vangelisti (Member # 5200) on January 22, 2018, 02:57 PM:
 
Hello Osi,
only now I read these posts that you published on the forum. First I would also like to say Bill Brandstein that I work with Marco and I deal with magnetic striping and re-record on super 8 and 16mm film (here you can see as I work : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEgyDMLwu1s&t=10s). I sold this film through eBay to Osi and I must say that regularly Poste Italiane do not have a service as bad as in this unfortunate period. In fact, even Marco, after knowing what was happening to me, sent almost nothing in the month of December. It is true that, following agreements with Amazon, Poste Italiane has favored Amazon deliveries over the same period and has included more than 25,000 shipments on a waiting list. Moreover, as I already wrote to Osi, I called the Poste Italiane customer service every day to solicit the unlocking and I made two complaints. The last complaint concerns the involvement of USPS ... in fact, the customer service operators of Poste Italiane are able, with their internal procedure, to see that the package is in the hands of USPS as early as January 5. If the tracking is consulted through the excellent website "17track" https://t.17track.net/it#nums=CP056662005IT ... you can see that on the top page there is a note (1) flanked to the symbol of an airplane where it is written "Your package has been delivered to the carrier" (USPS). From this date the problem is no longer Poste Italiane, but of USPS ... which at least should update the tracking. In addition to making the delivery as soon as possible. In fact, in my second complaint through Poste Italiane ... Poste Italiane themselves require this to USPS. Probably the parcel is stopped at customs for further checks.Unfortunately it may happen that some parcels are subject to greater control in US customs ... but this is not the fault of Poste Italiane. I want to say that all my other sales made in this period of December have arrived in these days ... those made to other European countries have arrived before, probably because there is no customs between European countries. I have 2703 all 100% positive feedback and I've been on eBay since 2004 .... Osi, you requested a full refund, as it right, and I've already paid everything through PayPal, but eBay wrote to me that I can appeal if in the next few days the parcel will be delivered , as I think. Ebay also wrote to me that, despite having closed the claim in your favor, it will continue to monitor the trend of the tracking again for a few days. So if you still do not provide the refund depends, I think, exclusively from eBay, because I have repaid 100% a few hours after the closure of the case through PayPal. Dear Osi, I think that you should receive the film in the coming days, but what I want to clarify is that I have done and continue to do everything possible for you. As I repeat, I use eBay, but my job is to professionally make magnetic striping on super 8 and 16mm film ... the confidence of enthusiasts and collectors is important to me ... I would have no reason to behave ambiguously with you or with anyone else on eBay, as you also deduced. If there are any news about the delivery in the next few days I will write to you in private ... otherwise, as it is right, you will be able to take advantage of the refund

[ January 23, 2018, 05:18 AM: Message edited by: Alberto Carlo Vangelisti ]
 
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 23, 2018, 11:54 AM:
 
Please note folks that everything that Alberto has said in the previous post is absolutely true and I think I have said nothing against Alberto personally. This really is a problem with the post in general.

By the way Alberto, I haven't seen a single penny of the refund as of yet (I'm writing this as of the 23rd), and I think that they (ebay) must be holding onto it for a few days as they said that they would get back to me on the 24th. They must be giving it a few days more to potentially arrive. I can wait for the refund a few more days ... [Smile]

Oh, Alberto, this is the first time I've been able to look at that link concerning that other tracking info, but I don't see it saying anywhere that it was actually received by U.S. post but I must admit, that I speak speak or read Italian, (beyond "ciao" and "grazie" [Smile] )

Someone ought to sue the Italian post over this "amazon" deal screw-up. I wonder how many other packages got lost in transit as well. [Frown]
 
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on January 24, 2018, 08:21 AM:
 
If Poste Italiene is part of the public service (a government owned company) where the company receives public funds, the deal with Amazon is not acceptable. People in Italy must sue this company.

But it is a different case if PI is a 100% private company.

Can anybody tell me which one is it?
 
Posted by Fabrizio Mosca (Member # 142) on January 24, 2018, 09:08 AM:
 
It's a company quoted in the Milan Stock Exchange, so... [Frown]
 
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on January 24, 2018, 10:57 AM:
 
You know Osi I bought some films from a chap in the USA and it was 18 months before I asked for a refund, which he kindly then did.

He had odd issues etc and did`nt get them off many times.

But anything post wise in December and just after you really need to give things a really good old chance.

Also now controls especially in to the USA are very tight and awkward and can be very longwinded sometimes now.

It can be a matter of luck of the draw etc too.

Anyway sure they will be nice when there.

Best Mark.
 
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 24, 2018, 11:57 AM:
 
Well, ebay was supposed to get ahold of me today and haven't, so I'm going to call them later today. The funny thing is that if Alberto already did the refundm, (and I have no reason to doubt him as of this time ... as i have bought from before and he has been reliable in the past), you would have thought that I would have recieved my refund already.

As stated earlier, when i have a refund issue, the exact amount that is requested back is put on hold by ebay in my paypal, (for instance, if I have a zero balance of cash in paypal, the amount requested for refund is 100.00 dollars, i then have a "minus" of 100.00, in the red, in my paypal, until ebay zips it back to the buyer) ...

But I ask again to all overseas buyers or seller ... does ebay had different rules of conduct when it comes to refunds and overseas purchases, than they do for stateside (U.S.) purchases?
 
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on January 24, 2018, 03:03 PM:
 
Hi Osi I think its just allowing for all the various hold ups you can get in the system between actual countries, like in this instance.

The USA is probably one of the most strict for coming in, and they often have quite a backlog.

Around that time of year or just after its probably well clogged up.

I remember having a super 8 trailer take 5/6 months to show up and it was posted that very day I bought it.

Best Mark.
 
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 25, 2018, 10:50 AM:
 
UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE!!!!

Before calling ebay yesterday, I decided to look call the toll free number on my credit card to check my balance. I hadn't done that for two days. I honestly didn't remember if i had paid for Alberto's film by paypal or credit card.

I am happy to report that I now have a 350.00 dollar credit on my credit card ...

I didn't get any ebay message or anything on my hotmail stating that the credit had went thru. Nice of ebay to not do that, eh?

So, I am happy to say that i have my refund ...

But Alberto ...

I certainly hope that the film does eventually arrive, whether today or weeks from now, (the post office did say that sometimes, but rarely, U.S. customs CAN hold a package up for up to 30 days, and that would have started around the 7th or 8th of January) ...

As, though I have received my money back, you are out as well and, as promised, (and everybody who has been reading this are here as witnesses), if the package does arrive, I will gladly paypal you that full amount right back!

... or, if somehow Italian post was wrong and it's still somewhere in Italy, it will be returned to you, safe and sound.
 
Posted by Alberto Carlo Vangelisti (Member # 5200) on January 25, 2018, 12:40 PM:
 
Osi, I think you'll receive your film next week. USA custom often can make controls for 20 -30 working days from the time (6 January) packet delivered to the same custom...and USPS not update the tracking before the packet id unlocked....simply ...all this can happen dear Osi. Now I am happy for you ... as I told you have had your refund...and I'm optimistic Osi ... I do not tear my hair ... you'll see that the film will come to you, as I repeat, it's likely that this happens in the next week. ;-)
 
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on January 25, 2018, 02:39 PM:
 
When it comes Osi I`d recommend sending Paypal Friend`s and Family/Gift for Alberto.

Best wishes Mark.
 
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 26, 2018, 11:36 AM:
 
Yeah, whenever I send money overaseas, (not by ebay, but by paypal) I choose that. I see no reason why paypal should take a bigger "chunk" than they should really be entitled to. [Smile]

Something that has occured to me, is that, Alberto, how long do you have to wait until you can put an insurance claim on this package? I mean, in less than 10 days, it will be over two months since it was originally mailed off and you have a great track record of putting in complaints on this packages whereabouts that you're Italian post couldn't deny.
 
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on January 26, 2018, 09:40 PM:
 
Osi, we hope that the film will not be lost, at the end!!
I would be sorry for you and also for Alberto, a serious seller, with also great passion for our hobby.
Ah, Alberto said well, the Italian posts are not really bad in general sense (sincerely, I never have big problems with them), but in December 2017 there was a crisis of deliveries: many call at call center, some refunds, some parcel arrived after a lot (I received one after a month), but, for what i know, nothing parcel lost!
In January, the situation was reestablished, in fact my sale with Terry that was mentioned before arrived in two weeks, a good time for Italy--->UK! However, I preferred to warn Terry of possible "aftermath" after the "evil" December.
 
Posted by Alberto Carlo Vangelisti (Member # 5200) on February 01, 2018, 03:39 PM:
 
Hello Osi,

as you can see on : https://t.17track.net/it#nums=CP056662005IT
tracking has been updated ... as expected, US customs are finishing their job at ISC New York .... so you should receive the film within a few days. Please, take a look at the update of the tracking and also ... USPS that could arrive with the package at home ... ;-)
 
Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on February 02, 2018, 02:45 AM:
 
I'm sure I heard on the news report a few days ago that a postman in Italy had been found to have several hundred items at home he failed to deliver. This is not unheard of in other countries where the demands made on the postman exceed what he can manage and to say he has completed his round he merely stores the excess. Maybe something like that has occurred in your case.
 
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 02, 2018, 08:55 AM:
 
That happened in Belgium. I once found a pack of letters in my mailbox with a note from the Post saying that a lot of mail had been found at the postman's home after an investigation and that they were sorry for the trouble. It is not rare that mail disppear...
 
Posted by Alberto Carlo Vangelisti (Member # 5200) on February 02, 2018, 10:57 AM:
 
Yes ... dear Brian and Dominique ... but the package in this case ... is in the hands of USPS ... please ... read the upload of the tracking https://t.17track.net/it#nums=CP056662005IT ... where it is written that, on January 31st , the package was cleared at the ISC of NEW YORK ... so ... I think it's in the hands of an American postman, not in those of an Italian postman ... and if we have to tell the whole truth ... USPS, in this case, they did a job even worse than Poste Italiane. Anyway, I do not make accusations to anyone, I just say that, unfortunately, these things can happen ... and that these things happen all over the world ... certainly not only in Italy. I believe that in the coming days, finally, Osi will have the film ...
 
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 02, 2018, 11:06 AM:
 
Alberto, I was not suggesting that the Italian post had lost or stolen the parcell but just saying that wrong things can happen everywhere [Wink]
 
Posted by Alberto Carlo Vangelisti (Member # 5200) on February 02, 2018, 03:26 PM:
 
It's the same thing that I think, dear Dominique
 
Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on February 03, 2018, 06:09 AM:
 
Osi will get his film, Alberto will get his money.
I love it when things come good in the end.
[Smile]
 
Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on February 28, 2018, 09:09 AM:
 
I'm itching to know how this turned out fellas. Osi, did you get your film?
 
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on February 28, 2018, 09:48 AM:
 
It says on the tracking it was refused when they tried to deliver it to Osi, so is on the way back to Italy.

Best Mark.
 
Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on February 28, 2018, 10:14 AM:
 
Here's the tracking info:-
https://t.17track.net/it#nums=CP056662005IT
 
Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on February 28, 2018, 10:18 AM:
 
Why did Osi refuse it after all this fuss?
 
Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on February 28, 2018, 12:40 PM:
 
Yep, that's rather strange.
 
Posted by David Baker (Member # 3259) on February 28, 2018, 12:48 PM:
 
Maybe outrageous postage amount was due on it .

I guess it's up to Osi to tell us to wrap this thread up..... [Eek!] [Eek!] [Eek!]
 
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on February 28, 2018, 02:48 PM:
 
While everbody is waiting for Osi to reply [Big Grin]
 -
 
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 28, 2018, 03:00 PM:
 
Once, I saw that statment (item refused) on the tracking page of an item (probably a film) I was waiting for although nobody asked me anything nor left any paper in my box. I was lucky I saw it quickly as I was able to sort that by calling the transporter (I don't remember which one it was). They still had my parcell and brought it the following day. Of course, nobody knew why it was written that I refused the item and I'm sure they didn't even investigate to find that out.
 
Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on February 28, 2018, 04:05 PM:
 
While we are waiting, I will read War and Peace.
 
Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on February 28, 2018, 04:21 PM:
 
Robert...that's a good one! [Smile]
 
Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on February 28, 2018, 04:40 PM:
 
[Smile]
 
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 01, 2018, 11:30 AM:
 
Well something odd must have happened, as can do with the post etc, as I can`t see that Osi would refuse it on purpose as he was waiting so hard for it.

I once sent something to a chap and it said refused, and he never saw it, in fact it then dissapeared too.

That was to the States too as it happens.

Best Mark.
 
Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 01, 2018, 12:15 PM:
 
Sit tight folks, only Osi himself can provide the final thrilling instalment to this long running drama!

Kevin
 
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 01, 2018, 12:18 PM:
 
I just tried to, moments ago, and I forgot to click "Ctrl and C" to make sure it didn't say "can't post Cuz of "flood" (didn't let me post my post), so I'll try writing it again tomorrow, as it was a long post and it's too danged frustrating going thru THAT again!
 
Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on March 01, 2018, 12:51 PM:
 
Osi if you would take the time to read the instructions when that happens all you have to do is wait 30 seconds and press the refresh button and your post would appear
 
Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on March 01, 2018, 01:28 PM:
 
I suggest when writing long posts to first write it using Notepad...then copy and paste into the forum form. It's much safer and prevents frustration and time wasted.
 
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 02, 2018, 11:46 AM:
 
OK, now I’ve had the time to actually type this out on WORD and able to make this, probably, my ultimate post, (well, perhaps my longest, not including some of my reviews).

I had forgotten to get back to this series of posts and it’s been a few weeks since the end of this. On February 8th (I believe, it might have been the 9th), the film finally arrived …

… and you were right Mark, though you didn’t know it … I returned the package, having it marked “refused/return to sender”

Why, after all of this time?

Backtrack to mid January …

I put in a request for a refund and by this time, it had already been near a month and a half. On about the 20th or so of January, I received an ebay message that stated that, if I didn’t further the request for a refund, ebay would assume as of the 28th that I and the seller had come to some form of “amiacable” settlement concerning the refund.

… however, all I kept gearing from Alberto was, “Please be patient, please be patient, please be patient” ect ect and this wasn’t disingenuous on Alberto’s part, as there WAS the hope that it might finally arrive. Since I had, as of that time, absolutely no tracking information (as of here in the U.S.), that actually stated that it was in fact in the U.S., I continued my refund request as, I was pretty sure that if ebay felt that by the 28th, I didn’t continue my refund request, that we had settled the issue, and with 350.00 dollars on the line, (a very large sum for my family), I couldn’t take a chance that I wouldn’t be able to start a second refund request on the same auction, which I don’t know for a fact, but I’m betting that ebay probably doesn’t allow for.

To be honest, by the time that I received my refund by early February (or was it late January?), I wanted to be completely done with the film and didn’t want it anymore and if the film DID in fact arrive, that I would immediately have one of two things which I and Alberto discussed via e-mails back and forth …

A. I would accept the film and sell it for Alberto over here in the U.S., which, if it sold here in the U.S. to a U.S. buyer, the shipping would be very small and more profit for Alberto … or …
B. I would simply mark the package “refused/return to sender” and Alberto could resell it at his convenience.

Alberto chose to have me send it back to him. In fact, just to alleviate any worried, though not requested by Alberto, I even filmed the package arriving, in the hands of the postman as it was verified to be returning to Alberto directly, (just in case anybody would attempt to call me a liar and trying to keep it for myself), with a close up of the address as, there are always those few on the forums that have always desired to catch Ole OSI being fraudulent, which I’ve never been. Hey, everybody has they’re “enemies.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it has already gotten back to Alberto. I would actually love to hear that it has, of course for, though I was made right with the refund, I’d certainly not wish to see Alberto not have the opportunity to make back with another ebay sale, as much or perhaps even more by re-listing it.

Therefore, I actually started this post originally for two reasons …

A. Quite frankly, to vent about rotten post (which is NOT Alberto’s fault)
B. With the help of the Forum members, to perhaps actually find out where
the package actually was.

So, there you have it Sorry for not getting back on this for quite awhile. No doubt there will be more questions from some …

“ Oh yeah?! PROVE that you filmed it being returned! “

So here's dat ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQaCiR7js8s&feature=youtu.be
 
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 02, 2018, 12:08 PM:
 
Well thats not too bad a result then overall.

Just a shame Italy`s post is sometimes so variable.

I`ve been lucky with it so far.

Hopefully Alberto can try to get a refund as it was amazingly bad this time.

Best Mark.
 
Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on March 02, 2018, 12:36 PM:
 
Interesting explanation.

Had I purchased the film, I would have felt obligated to accept it, postal delays notwithstanding.
Not to mention the fact that, to have paid $350 for it, I would have to have really wanted the film in the first place.

It would seem that Osi refused delivery of the film for no good reason, other than that he suddenly decided he didn't want the film. Well, that is, by any of the standards we profess as collectors, unfair to the seller.

It's pretty unbelievable really.

If Alberto is happy with this outcome, then hats off to him.
[Smile]

[ March 03, 2018, 05:09 AM: Message edited by: Michael O'Regan ]
 
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 03, 2018, 09:33 AM:
 
It's not just Italian post, the poxy Royal Mail clowns have somehow lost a 400ft i sent to S America, all tracked etc, now i am awaiting a response from RM, It puts me off send to S America now as this is the second time a tracked parcel has dissapeared, it got as far as Heathrow, but nothing from there on. I now exclude this country when i list on fleabay along with Asia.
 
Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on March 03, 2018, 12:35 PM:
 
I agree, Tom. All of this thread seems to have no definite purpose (at least retrospectively) but to misrepresent the Italian Mail system. Which is more often than not quite acceptable by any standards: I, too send and receive parcels from many places, both Europe, USA and, as of recently, Japan. I have been doing this for more than 20 years now and I can hardly recall a parcel lost in the system and that was from... Germany (no less!!!). But I did not build a paradigm on this. On the other hand; I sent two cultural boxes during December (about 15th) to schools in Lithuania and Romania for an international project and they both arrived in 3 weeks.

And again I once had to have a box containing a lot of rare books shipped from Cambridge, MA to Italy; I was a university student at that time, collecting material for my dissertation so I sent out that box to myself using the cheapest rate ("surface mail") which I could afford (being on a shoestring budget...); it did arrive but after three months (of prayers and swearing! [Eek!] [Eek!] [Eek!] ). So I guess it's all a matter of timing, (bad) luck etc which is not in our control.
 
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on March 03, 2018, 07:41 PM:
 
I no longer understood what happened, I only saw the video, but I did not understand the posts. [Big Grin]

To give an example, of "it happens all over the world":
I bought several times from Russia, also ordinary parcels also arrived always, on average in 15/20 days. Now I am waiting for a parcel from Russia, which has been in Moscow postal center since 1 February (but with the seller everything is OK, if it does not arrive he refunde me).
I received an ordinary package from the UK in a week, while I'm waiting for a 15-day a registered package (shipped before the other).
I received two parcels in Italy, form Italy, all ordinary shipment, two arrived in two days, I've been waiting for the other for a week.
Luck, context, many things...
I mentioned the crisis of Italian post that occurred in December (but I do not think only here), which has created protests and refund for retreat (but no lost packages), but the package of Osi seems a randomness that with that crisis it has nothing to do.
 
Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on March 04, 2018, 04:00 AM:
 
I can understand if there is a problem, or you think the parcel has gone astray, getting your money back via Paypal, as there is a time limit. If I was in the same situation, I would have been very relieved that a film I had wanted had turned up safe, and not been lost or stolen. Then I would have contacted the sender to tell him the good news, which would have been a relief for him, then arranged to resend payment. I certainly wouldn't refuse a film I had been looking forward to receiving. I suppose the sender is out of pocket on postage through no fault of his own.
 
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 04, 2018, 04:45 AM:
 
Robert, I share your logic.
 
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 04, 2018, 06:17 AM:
 
Michael O'Regan wrote

quote:
Interesting explanation.

Had I purchased the film, I would have felt obligated to accept it, postal delays notwithstanding.
Not to mention the fact that, to have paid $350 for it, I would have to have really wanted the film in the first place.

It would seem that Osi refused delivery of the film for no good reason, other than that he suddenly decided he didn't want the film. Well, that is, by any of the standards we profess as collectors, unfair to the seller.

It's pretty unbelievable really.

If Alberto is happy with this outcome, then hats off to him.

Did you really read Osi's explanation above. He wrote:

quote:
Alberto chose to have me send it back to him.
Why it seems to me with your last para wants this saga to continue?
 
Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on March 04, 2018, 06:46 AM:
 
Looking at Osi's statement he says :
To be honest, by the time that I received my refund by early February (or was it late January?), I wanted to be completely done with the film and didn’t want it anymore.
Did he decide that before or after he had spoken to the seller. Once I have ordered a film I have never changed my mind about receiving it. I think Osi needs to think carefully about his actions, as some sellers might blacklist him as a possible timewaster.
 
Posted by Alberto Carlo Vangelisti (Member # 5200) on March 04, 2018, 10:18 AM:
 
Guys ... I make a last post with which I would like to close this affair. I worked hard with all my strength, making complaints first with Poste Italiane and, to follow, even against USPS ... I reiterate the concept that Poste Italiane are not better or worse than USPS or others ... these delays can unfortunately happen all over the world ... even in this specific story if we go to analyze the whole affair observing the tracking ... we can see that the package has been stopped for about a month in Italy and ... a month as well in the USA. ... Who is the worst of the two? Nobody, unfortunately, are things that can happen. It is important, however, that you pass the concept that you can easily buy from Italy and that Italy is a Western European country from which you can buy products and services quietly and serenely ... same as for the United States of America. U.S.A. ... a big country that I love and admire sincerely. I wrote above how much I had taken it to heart to get the film to the friend Osi ... and finally I was successful. When the online tracking revealed that the package had finally been unlocked by the US customs and that it would arrive at Osi's house I was happy, but I received an email from Osi himself asking me, for personal reasons, to reject the film to the sender . ..or to accept it and then sell it himself on eBay and turn the amount obtained to me later. I understood and accepted the personal reasons of Osi ... who is a friend ... and I ask respect for him ... and for his personal reasons reserved ... so I confirmed that he could reject the package to the sender for not create more problems. Now I am waiting to receive the package with the film inside returning from the US, I hope to receive it as soon as possible. I conclude thinking that maybe it was not the case to open this post with the title "Italy's totally ****** UP POST !!!" .... the conclusion of this story makes us understand that a little more reflection would have been appropriate, which I have repeatedly reported and written to my friend Osi. I would like to end this post with good news: as many of you will know I am not a professional seller of super 8 films ... but I can offer professional magnetic striping service for 16mm film, but this is not new. The news is that now I can offer the same service for the super 8 with, of course, the application of two magnetic tracks for even the re-record even in stereo. Here you can see how my work is done on the 16mm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEgyDMLwu1s ... from now ... same thing about the super 8. For detailed information and costs of the service write also on: moviemagnetic@gmail.com. Please contact me with confidence and please consider this unfortunate episode ... simply and only as ... the exception that confirms the rule. Greetings to all of you and to my friend Osi to whom all of you can safely continue to ask him for purchases, exchanges and sales
 
Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on March 04, 2018, 10:45 AM:
 
You are a man showing great integrity and patience Alberto and I applaud your wonderful example here. Thank-you.
 
Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on March 04, 2018, 11:30 AM:
 
Alberto, thanks for your post.

It sounds like Osi did have good reason for refusing delivery, and if this is the case, then I guess this could happen to anybody, and may have been outside of Osi's control.

Osi, wasn't clear on this in his post, making it sound like he refused delivery for no good reason.
 
Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on March 04, 2018, 11:50 AM:
 
Hi Alberto can you claim the postage back, I hope so.

Best Mark.

[ March 04, 2018, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Mark Todd ]
 
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 04, 2018, 03:32 PM:
 
Robert Crewdson wrote:

quote:
Once I have ordered a film I have never changed my mind about receiving it. I think Osi needs to think carefully about his actions, as some sellers might blacklist him as a possible timewaster.
If you were planning to screen a particular title in your son's birthday and the film arrived late, do you still take the film? While the film was not actually your taste, just for the sake of your son's birthday.

The above situation is not Osi's but rather my own situation 4 years ago with different seller.

I do not intend to back up anyone here, but I don't like to see people jump into his/her own conclusion for other people's situation.

cheers,
 
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 04, 2018, 03:39 PM:
 
Winbert, I would think that if the film had to be there at a specific date for a special event, that would have been said in one of the first messages. It seems that the reason why Ossi changed his mind is known by himself and by the seller. The most important, in my opinion, is that both of them still trust each other.
 
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 04, 2018, 04:01 PM:
 
As I said Dominique, that is my situation (NOT Osi's).

Robert's statement above was meant for general situation. So I gave my situation to contradict to his statement to show that it is not always his decision can be applied to everyone.

cheers,
 
Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on March 04, 2018, 04:49 PM:
 
I don't have any children, but if I had bought something for a son, I would have accepted it and shown it late. If I ordered something and it arrived,even late, I would accept it. I had a similar situation myself with a film from the US. I got a tracking number, and for two weeks nothing. I contacted the seller, who assured me he had posted it. It took nearly three weeks, before any information showed up. I was pleased to receive the film I had bought.
 
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 04, 2018, 04:57 PM:
 
Thanks Robert, but for me I rejected it especially it was not fit into my taste. I bought it just because of my son's birthday. Unfortunately it has lost its momentum when arrived late.

ps: the situation above can be modified not only to son's birthday, but to wife's anniversary, a wedding surprise, a friend's visit, etc, etc.... So time limit is sometimes essential.

cheers,
 
Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on March 04, 2018, 05:21 PM:
 
Thanks Winbert.
 
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 05, 2018, 12:20 PM:
 
Just wanted to say that I also say the same of Alberto, as he is a good friend as well and is what he has always been, a very honest seller and I definitely say that you can rely on him.

The fault was never on Alberto's part, but in the Italian postal system and quite frankly, was continued with the U.S. postal system. They chose to hold onto the package for the full time that customs can just hold onto things.

Ciao ... Alberto!!
 


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