8mm Forum: Removing Filmguard

This is topic Removing Filmguard in forum General Yak at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 11, 2018, 04:57 AM:

What is the best method to remove Filmguard from a print? Will it just wipe off, or perhaps will isopropyl alcohol help?

Posted by Keith Wilson (Member # 4888) on August 11, 2018, 05:59 AM:

Maurice, be very care full when using isopropyl alcohol or any chemicals that evaporate quickly, as it cause's film shrinkage and warping

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on August 11, 2018, 06:39 AM:

Not to mention possibly taking off some sound stripe.

Maurice, have to ask why you need to remove it? Is there too much on the print?

If so, a few runs through a dry 100% cotton handkerchief should remove the excess. I've never had any ill effects from Filmguard except when too much has been applied.

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on August 11, 2018, 07:25 AM:

If a film print has too much cleaning chemical on it then the lesson learned here is the proper way to apply the chemical is through a slow-moving cleaner machine seconds before the film enters the projector gate

A soaked rag Between handcrank rewinds is not the way to apply the chemical

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on August 11, 2018, 07:54 AM:

Chip
If that's correct, I have doing it wrong forever, without any bad experiences so far [Cool]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on August 11, 2018, 08:38 AM:

me as well, i did learn years ago not to over apply, if i feel too much is on i simply rewind again using a clean dry 10% cotton handkerchief, it works perfect and has done all my life in cine. 40 Years.
Obviously the ideal way is to use a proper cleaning machine add on to the projector, but there was no way i was paying some of the prices that were asked of these cleaning machines. Some of them were twice the price as a decent projector. [Wink]

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on August 11, 2018, 09:10 AM:

I use the same method as Tom and have done for around 25 years now with nothing but great results.

But Filmguard especially has to applied very sparingly. Certainly would never use a soaked rag Chip! [Smile]

Posted by David Baker (Member # 3259) on August 11, 2018, 09:23 AM:

Terry , Tom and Rob - I agree with you all and too have never had any ill effects for many years .

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on August 11, 2018, 10:16 AM:

The film cleaner machines are easy to find if the price is right. The Kelmar unit for 35mm can easily be modified from 35mm down to 8/16. All you do is remove and swap some parts then reinstall them. Building a holder to your machine could take some trial and error. But once configured, they are the best way to do this.

What scares me with the rag is scratching of film. The cleaners work on the basis of motion. The projector pulls the film, the film moves a main guide roller, and worm gears rotate the cotton cleaning rolls. Everything moves with the film - so scratching is avoided.

If you can consider the application vs the cost, it is a wise decision to do so. The film cleaners can be expensive, like a machine or a film print. But for the principle of insurance, it can't be beat.

cg

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on August 11, 2018, 10:55 AM:

Like many others, I spray a small amount of FilmGuard on a cut piece of lint free cloth, fold that in half and apply it to both sides while turning rewinds at a slow speed. I replace the cloth when it looks necessary. This has done the job for years & years.

I use the Film-O-Clean for wet gate projection and also during CineSea when I'm given a film to project that hasn't been cleaned. However, I prefer to clean by hand because I can feel if there's any sprocket damage, burnt frames or bad splices.

Doug

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on August 11, 2018, 10:56 AM:

I can definatly see the benefits Chip. 100%.
It's just a matter of cost more than anything. When using the basic handkerchief method, the thing to remember to avoid scratching are simple, always use a 100% hanky, (or similar).
Each time you re-apply the cleaner, (for me it tends to be a very small amount every 150/200ft) use a different part of the cloth,
at the end, rewind through another clean part of the cloth but no pressure, this takes off the excess perfectly.
A few second hand films have made the cloth unbelievably filthy, if this happens it gets second application right away, this usually does the trick, fortunately, its rare. [Wink]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 11, 2018, 10:58 AM:

I am not asking how to apply Filmguard, but how to remove it from a film.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on August 11, 2018, 11:00 AM:

Maurice,

Sorry to get off topic. If too much FilmGuard has been applied, I would use my same method for cleaning, only using a dry cloth wrapped around the film lightly, replaced every 100' or so.

Doug

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 11, 2018, 11:10 AM:

Thanks, Doug.
So. Just a dry cloth?

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on August 11, 2018, 11:13 AM:

Well, like I also said Maurice.

But why? Too much on the print?

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on August 11, 2018, 11:21 AM:

Rob beat me to it by two hours!

Doug

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 11, 2018, 11:23 AM:

Maurice, if you just want to remove an excess of Filmguard, a piece of cloth will be enough but if you want to remove it completely, it will not work. I remember the message of a member who had sent a film to a lab to add a soundtrack. In this case, it was said that it takes about one year for the product to evaporate completely.

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on August 11, 2018, 12:12 PM:

Nobody got off topic what I was trying to say is when you apply film guard to the cotton rolls of the cleaner machine over time it is absorbed by the cotton rolls which avoids a print from being soaked.

And Doug, I will normally do film inspection first, then do a cleaning as a 2nd step. It’s never extra work- it is always for the love of film!

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on August 11, 2018, 12:23 PM:

“It’s never extra work- it is always for the love of film! “

However we clean our films, I think we all here agree on that Chip. [Smile]

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on August 11, 2018, 04:14 PM:

Is it OK to use an old cotton t-shirt cut into pieces for applying and then removing excess of the Filmguard?
I have specific cloths bought in laboratories, in polyester, microfiber, rough, etc., but if it is necessary to change cloth often it is not appropriate to use those.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 11, 2018, 06:33 PM:

I use that, Luigi (pieces of cotton from t shirts or blankets). Some films are incredibly dirtyand sometimes to change the cloth quiete often.

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on August 11, 2018, 07:10 PM:

Thanks, Dom. And you also know how much time must pass to be able to project the film after cleaning?

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 12, 2018, 02:38 AM:

You can project the film immediately after having removed the excess of Filmguard. As I reported it before, the only films that tend to hold some drops on some sections are optical super 8 (not other gauges). I have no Idea why but extra attention is needed for those films.

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on August 12, 2018, 08:31 AM:

Oh, what a strange thing! But the drops only on the path of the optical track or even on the image space?

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 12, 2018, 10:58 AM:

On all the surface.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on August 12, 2018, 11:25 AM:

Airline prints of optical features were coated in silicone polish to protect and ensure smooth running, as they ran in large cassette holders.

Many features that found their way onto the domestic super 8 scene were airline prints, so maybe that has something to do with it?

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 12, 2018, 11:46 AM:

I'm not sure, Rob, I think I had the same occured with non airlines prints (a French company calles Les grands films cmassiques released severl interesting titles) but I will look more carefully in the future to see if that could be the explaination.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on August 12, 2018, 01:30 PM:

ive always projected ours films immediately after cleaning, not been a problem yet [Wink]

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on August 12, 2018, 03:38 PM:

Got it, thanks guys.
I have always used other cleaners of different brands, I always found them good, but no one has ever been very incisive, they cleaned well but not a lot.
We'll see how I'll find myself with Filmguard.

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on August 13, 2018, 11:03 AM:

Not sure how you remove Filmguard but on the old 2.22 you had to buy a tin of solvent to remove it.

I use my rewind arms or Spondon Long Play unit with ECCO cleaner between.

I would never use the projector for cleaning though, even use rewind arms now to save wear.

Can you still get Film Renew or Vitafilm cleaner?

Just to add films I treated with 2.22 back in the seventies are still silky smooth.

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on August 13, 2018, 07:19 PM:

@ Brad Miller:

Since you are the developer of Film Guard, perhaps you can answer the question. If it did have to be done, can it be removed?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on August 13, 2018, 08:43 PM:

Hi Maurice,

The first question is: why?

As has been noted on this thread it will evaporate off naturally given some time (a year or two), but please tell me what happened that makes you want to remove FilmGuard from a print so I can better understand the reasoning and your needs.

We can take it from there. Thanks.

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