8mm Forum: New Owner of a Pathe Baby

This is topic New Owner of a Pathe Baby in forum 9.5mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on August 10, 2013, 10:31 PM:

Totally pumped! I'm about to join the 9.5mm group. I just bought a Baby Pathex with a few films. I should be getting it in about a week. I've always been curious about 9.5mm and the idea of a hand-cranked projector is fantastic. The Baby Pathex is a thing of beauty and a wonderful piece of cinema history.

I'll post a picture when it arrives [Smile]

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 11, 2013, 09:31 AM:

Welcome in the 9,5 mm world, Janice !

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on August 11, 2013, 01:41 PM:

Janice, welcome to the wonderful world of 9.5mm. I also have a Pathe Baby, and it is a wonderful machine.
I highly recommend a few hours of Grahame Newnham's awesome website:
http://www.pathefilm.freeserve.co.uk/

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 19, 2013, 03:48 AM:

Did you get it, Janice ?

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on August 19, 2013, 02:46 PM:

No... it hasn't been mailed yet. I'm getting anxious too.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 20, 2013, 03:54 AM:

I hope that everything will be allright !

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on August 20, 2013, 10:14 PM:

Looks like it's being shipped tomorrow. Should have it in 3-4 days.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 21, 2013, 05:44 AM:

Great !

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on August 24, 2013, 05:50 PM:

Here it is! It came with 10 films. I think most are home movies from 1927. Some say Yosemite and a couple are labeled Ventura, CA. Two of the reels are a larger size reel ... one is labeled "The Allied Forces of the World War".

I don't know if the projector works. I need to do more research on how to use it. The power cord looks very worn. But...Just looking at the projector ... it is amazing.

[ August 24, 2013, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on August 24, 2013, 07:39 PM:

Janice, your baby looks in great shape. When your ready to get rid of that lethal resistance in the base of the projector, and convert to modern 12 volt halogen lighting, lets talk.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 24, 2013, 11:07 PM:

Waw. Looks in very good condition. You even have the Pathe Baby "tablecloth" (I don't know how it's called in English). The use is quiete easy, I am sure you will find the way to use it from the first time. Enjoy !

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on August 25, 2013, 07:39 AM:

Very nice looking machine Janice, and the WW1 film sounds interesting.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on August 26, 2013, 10:45 PM:

My Pathe Baby is in remarkable shape for it's age. However the shutter is swollen, cracked, and frozen and a circular metal part appears bent, but maybe it's suppose to be like that. I read in other posts that the shutter is a common problem with the baby [Frown]

So where can I get a replacement?

@Paul...I will also want to replace the lamp as you suggest...but first need to get the wheels turning on this little beauty.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 27, 2013, 12:50 AM:

Janice, I will be back in Belgium on Friday. If nobody has replied to you before, I will copy and paste a link (which I cannot do from my mobile phone).

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on August 27, 2013, 12:06 PM:

Thanks Dominigue. I'm heading down to Los Angeles again on Friday for a couple of weeks with my kids, but I still will be keeping up on the forum and my email. I'm hoping with a little TLC this baby will be up and running again [Smile]

[ August 27, 2013, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on August 27, 2013, 05:38 PM:

Janice, congrats on an outstanding purchase. When you get down the road a bit, I'm curious what those movies look like for their age! Plus I'm sure Ventura looked a LOT different in 1927 than now, that's got to have historical value. Nice find.

[ August 27, 2013, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Bill Brandenstein ]

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on August 27, 2013, 06:18 PM:

Janice, when I first got my Pathe Baby a few years ago, nothing moved. It obviously had not been used in decades. But a cleaning and lube solved eveything, and it was soon up and running like a brand new machine. Use light machine oil on all the bearings, cam, cam shaft, worm gear etc. Pathe recommended lubing all the moving parts with one drop of oil "occasionally".
I have the original Pathex instruction manual if you need a copy of anything.
Replacement shutters, made of brass, are made in the UK. Contact Ken Valentine:

Ken Valentine Photographic Repairs, 111 Elstree Road, Bushey, Herts, WD23 4EG. Tel: 020 8421 8817
Rubber drive belts for various projectors. Also repairs and lamp upgrades to many 9.5mm projectors

One of the coolest things you will ever see anywhere in the cine world is a motorized Pathe Baby running a notched title film. Its uncanny how perfectly the system works, stopping flawlessly on that 2 frames of still title with a little thunk, and then pausing for several seconds, before re-engaging the mechanism for continous running.
Unbelievably cool! [Cool]

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 28, 2013, 02:02 AM:

Janice, as Paul said one of the caracteristics of the Pathé Baby system is that the projector stops eache time there is a notch. So if you try your projector without film, don't be surprise if it stays on the still projection mode, this is because the small moving part in the film gate reacts like if there was a notch.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on August 28, 2013, 12:17 PM:

Thanks Paul and Dominique... Should I take it that Ken Valentine is the only supplier for the shutter? Have either of you bought one from him and installed it? What did it cost?

As far as the frame stopping you both mentioned...since I can't get the shutter to turn (I did try to load some film)I don't grasp what you are describing. Maybe once I replace the shutter it will become clearer to me.

I did oil the machine as recommended... that's when I discovered the problem with the shutter which was the reason the large crank wouldn't turn. Everything else looks super clean and the rewind crank works fine.

Paul...I downloaded a manual from the link on the 8mmForum site. Does your manual differ?

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on August 28, 2013, 05:21 PM:

Janice, here is a thread from Ron Ashton in the UK who also makes Baby shutters:

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=000051#000000

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on August 28, 2013, 06:51 PM:

Super Paul. I like that Ron has an email address [Smile]

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on August 29, 2013, 05:12 PM:

I got in touch with Ron and my new flywheel shutter should be on it's way shortly. Ron is a super great guy and quite the Pathe enthusiust. The shutter will come with complete installation instructions and he's available to help me out if I run into problems.

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on August 29, 2013, 06:09 PM:

I still do not congratulated for the purchase, janice, despite the common issues, it looks nice!
Long live the 9.5 mm! [Smile]

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on August 29, 2013, 10:09 PM:

Thank you Luigi.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 31, 2013, 02:01 AM:

Good news, Janice.

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on September 15, 2013, 01:47 AM:

janice
It looks like you have a Pathex Model D with the single pin claw which are the earlier US models... Does yours have one serial number or one on each side? as the very first US models had a french serial number on one side, and the US serial on the other. I will say this about the Model D's they are on the finickier side of the babies because of the single pin claw they sometimes will just stop moving the film forward, so make sure if you upgrade the lamp you NEVER go higher than a 15w bulb or you will scorch frames often......The shutters were made of Mazac and almost all are now distorted so picking up one of Ron's remade shutters will be a big help. The internal working look extremely simple but are surprisingly sophisticated and the slightest adjustment can bring on hours of hairpulling trying to get everything working properly again so be careful when replacing out the shutter not to accidentally lose track of all the adjustments...

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on September 15, 2013, 04:06 AM:

Janice
See if you can find a copy of "The Home Cinema" by Gerald McKee, it has twelve very interesting pages devoted to the Pathe Baby and 9.5mm notched films.
It also includes charts, drawings and photographs of various models from the first introduced in time for the Christmas trade (in France) in 1922.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on September 15, 2013, 08:52 AM:

Interesting about the US serial numbers; I saw one advertised yesterday that had British Patent Numbers.

Are you up and running yet Janice?

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on September 15, 2013, 02:41 PM:

@Dino...First off so good to see you posting again [Smile]

I took a closer look at my Baby and from your description I don't think this is the early US model. It has dual claws and a single serial number (124342) on one side. There is a small placard above the serial number all in French. I'm hoping this is good [Smile]

@Maurice...I'll see if I can locate that book.

@Robert...I've been on a trip for the past 2 weeks and just received the replacement shutter on Thursday. I've already run into a few snags in the installation.

There are a couple of tiny recessed nuts that need to be removed...but I don't have a driver small enough to fit thru the access hole.

I also have to make a jig to remove the shutter shaft. It requires drilling a hole into a board using a 5/16 drill bit, which of course I don't have right now.

I want to take my time replacing the shutter...I don't want to mess it up.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on September 15, 2013, 03:56 PM:

Janice, be aware that sometimes tools are different from a country to another. I don't know the name of what you are showing on the last picture but it may be different from the French "key" as the mesures are differents (they are calculates on the metric system where this system is used and on the imperial system in the country who calculate in inches, feet and so on). I hope you will not have this problem but it happened once to me with an Engilsh machine and I didn't understand why I couldn't open it with my tool (a kind of "screwdriver"), then I went to a shop where they told me about the difference of tools. Luckily, they had an English tool (they had by mistake, so it was the only one and it was cheap !)that of course worked. I hope you understood what I wrote ;-)

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on September 15, 2013, 04:19 PM:

This is called a nut driver Dominique. I do have metric drivers... however the outside width of the driver is too thick and won't fit in the opening to get to the nut.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on September 15, 2013, 09:13 PM:

Could you use long nose pliers on the recessed nut?

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on September 15, 2013, 10:32 PM:

I tried that Maurice...but they are too big also. I need a smaller precision nut driver to fit.

[ September 16, 2013, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on September 15, 2013, 11:51 PM:

janice look again, usually the whole front will pull forward, and will give you easy access to those screws...

You need to do the following:

1 - unscrew the wide ridged nut on the very top by the film chamber
2 - slide the whole top section straight up and off
3 - once that is off you can grab the 3 sided body piece by the sides near the back towards the gate area and lightly pinch the sides and tilt it forward like you are trying to point the lens opening towards the ground and the whole piece will come off and give you access to the innards.

once that piece is off you can use any pliers to loosen those 2 little nuts.

OH AND I JUST READ THROUGH THE WHOLE POST... That "bent" piece is like that on purpose and is part of the intermittent action of the claw pulldown.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on September 16, 2013, 01:12 AM:

Thanks Dino. The old shutter was so swollen that it was pushing against the slot near the Pathex Emblem keeping the cover from coming off. I was able to chip away some of the shutter and remove the section that was pressing against the cover. I then removed the black outer cover as you described.

[ September 16, 2013, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on September 20, 2013, 05:33 AM:

Take your time Janice, the last thing you want to do is damage it. Good luck, there are always knowledgeable people on here to help.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on September 20, 2013, 06:26 PM:

I've been working on installing the new shutter for the past week. Ron Ashton has been helping me thru the steps...but I wish there were more visual aids for me to follow. My head is swimming with engineering terms that don't really mean much to me.

Hopefully this will be successful...I'll then post some pics :-)

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on September 21, 2013, 12:09 AM:

It is limited and in French but you have some drawings here : http://pierreg.free.fr/cine95/mater/projo/pathbabe.htm

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on September 21, 2013, 01:08 AM:

WOW! Dominique this is great. A picture is worth a thousand words. Thanks so much.

Posted by Anna Vacani (Member # 2736) on September 23, 2013, 06:52 AM:

Next a hand-cranked or with a motor projector in our collection, just described:
http://www.binoculars-cinecollectors.com/

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on September 24, 2013, 08:42 PM:

Here is the new flywheel shutter in place on my Pathe Baby. This was quite a learning experience. The photos that Dominique shared were very helpful and I was almost daily communicating with Ron Ashton guiding me step by step through the installation.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on September 25, 2013, 12:08 AM:

It looks like you did a perfect job !

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on September 25, 2013, 09:31 AM:

Well done indeed Janice! [Smile]

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on September 25, 2013, 10:57 AM:

Janice
The book which I mentioned earlier "The Home Cinema" is now on eBay UK at a starting bid of £2.99. The seller will post worldwide. It's a limited edition and I can thoroughly recommend it.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Geral d-McKee-The-Home-Cinema-Classic-Home-Movie-Projectors-1922-1940-/321212508565?pt=Non_Fiction&hash=item4ac9c1e995

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on September 25, 2013, 01:13 PM:

I'm impressed Janice, you roll your sleeves up and get stuck in. Well done.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on September 25, 2013, 04:19 PM:

Thanks so much guys for the kind words and continued support. I have to admit there were times I said to myself... "What have I gotten into this time." Then I took a break and came right back to it. In the case of installing the new flywheel shutter I really didn't have a clue to what I was in for....and found myself overwhelmed with questions and engineering terms that seemed like another language to me. However, in retrospect it wasn't as complicated as made out to be and it would have gone smoother if I had known a few things up front.

I'm going to put together some photos I took over the course of the install and post them in another thread. Perhaps they will help someone else out.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on September 26, 2013, 09:25 PM:

Here's a short video demonstrating the outcome of installing the new flywheel shutter and testing the lamp (which works just fine). Next I'm going to load up some film [Smile]

...any tips for me at this point?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJt7c9vXH4s&feature=youtu.be

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on September 27, 2013, 01:15 PM:

Janice,
If you are not running notched titles I would recommend disabling the notched film device.This makes threading much easier when you dont have to contend with the sideways push of the notch sensor as you are trying to load the film in the gate, and it helps reduce sprocket hole jumping when you are running the film.
To disable the notch sensor, without in any way doing anything to the projector, just put an elastic rubber band around the notch sensor lever(OUTSIDE the machine below the gate aperture) and wrap the other end of the elastic band all the way around the left side of the machine and around the lens snout at the front.
Done properly, this will pull the notch lever to the left, in an OUT position. On the rare occasion that you might run notched titles, you can just remove the elastic band.
Another thing you may have to do is to adjust the tension on the take up by rotating the knurled knob clutch on the take up pulley. Increase or decrease take up tension until the film take up brake arm ocillates happily up and down, and the projected picture is steady.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on September 28, 2013, 05:51 AM:

You have a very nice piece of cinematic history there, and you can tell from the sound that it's precision engineering. You have some interesting films; would especially like to see the one about WW1.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on September 28, 2013, 12:20 PM:

I did my first screening last night Robert...What fun it was! Here is a video I put together showing a couple scenes from the WW1 reel. I'll show the entire reel when I can setup a better telecine arrangement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duC5qBo8T6w

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on September 28, 2013, 02:20 PM:

Thank you so much Janice, I really enjoyed that. What great footage; the 1st scene looked like Britain's General Haigh. I can imagine your excitement seeing the moving pictures for the 1st time after all your hard work.

I'm very impressed with you Janice, you take on these jobs and you get results.

Posted by Christian Bjorgen (Member # 1780) on September 29, 2013, 07:33 AM:

Lovely clip, Janice, always fun to see old projectors at work! :-)

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on September 29, 2013, 08:44 AM:

What made it especially enjoyable, was not just the WW1 footage, but the fact that your film is itself an historic item and the projector used to screen it. Do you have any films with an earlier catalogue number. After all these years, I wonder how many copies survive of a particular film.

Looked at Grahame Newnham's listing of Pathe films; couldn't find this one, listed either alphabetically or numerically.

[ September 29, 2013, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: Robert Crewdson ]

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on September 29, 2013, 01:04 PM:

I found it listed on this page:

M 33 Allied Forces of the World War

http://www.pathefilm.freeserve.co.uk/95flmcat/95flmcatpathex.htm

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on September 29, 2013, 02:05 PM:

To use a Pathescope name, Janice, you have a real Gem. I believe that 9.5mm only lasted a short time in the USA. So, not only is it a Gem, it is a rarity.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on September 29, 2013, 02:34 PM:

A Gem that she can enjoy with her Son ! [Smile]

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on September 29, 2013, 03:29 PM:

Found it at last, date not given, but appears to be before 1920.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on September 29, 2013, 03:48 PM:

Estimating that the original owners of this projector bought the film in or before 1927 it's very possible that this particular reel hasn't been viewed in about 80-85 years. My son said it was like being in a time warp [Smile]

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on September 29, 2013, 03:58 PM:

Will you be posting others on Youtube?.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on September 29, 2013, 04:10 PM:

I'll post the complete WW1 reel for sure...I have to see what my best method for capturing will be. The home movies are much darker in contrast and will probably need some enhancement to make them better to view. I need to work on a couple of other projects too that I have been putting on hold...I'll alert you when I have more posted on YouTube [Smile]

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on September 30, 2013, 03:38 PM:

John Ashton awarded me with this nice certificate [Smile]

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on September 30, 2013, 04:23 PM:

You definitly deserve it !

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on November 15, 2013, 03:56 AM:

Thank you Paul Adsett...Your trick with the rubber band saved me tonight. I started transferring to video the reels that came with my Pathe Baby. Seven out of the 10 wouldn't advance in the gate at all. I didn't see anything wrong with the film nor the claw...but the claw was not moving the film. Then I remembered what you posted about the notch lever. I found a rubber band and pulled back the notch lever with it. Loaded a reel... and presto...the film started feeding down the gate perfectly [Smile]

I'm not sure how great my transfers are going to be...but all the reels played thru to the end...SWEET! [Cool]

[ November 15, 2013, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

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