This is topic Future of 9.5 filmstock in forum 9.5mm Forum at 8mm Forum.
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Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on October 17, 2018, 05:41 AM:
Difficult moments for the gauge. Both Ferrania and Kodak having failed to bring 35 unperfored reversal colour stock in reasonable time, Color City is not able to wait longer. The former manager is willing to help the Ciné Club 9.5 as much as he can but he asked us to take the reperforation machines back by the end of this year. Those are very heavy and take the room of about three ping pong tables. The Club is now trying to find a solution but it's not easy since it has a cost to move and store these machines. Everybody si aware if they are binned, that would almost mean the end of the 9.5 (there is another, musch smaller, reperforing machine but onnly from 16 mm, which is not viable and would, anyway be a kind of handicraft solution). As soon as I know more about this, I will post some updates. It has not been clear if Color City is stopping its activities by the end of 2018 (or a part of it or if they needed room) but in doubt I would advise (and that's the main reason why I'm posting this info about the situation before knowing more about it) those who still have 9.5 colour stock in their fridge to have it process by Color City (since the films were sold process paid) while it's still possible.
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on October 18, 2018, 05:58 PM:
Too bad for Kodak, on Ferrania we already had less hope... :|
I ask a question, Dom, to pass at the laboratory: the Fomapan R100 16mm single perf costs 27.68 EU (in the Foma shop) the 35mm costs 57.28 EUR. Could the laboratory buy these and cut them in 9.5mm? I imagine that from 35mm you can get at least 2 films 9.5 (3 I think not, because of the perforations), one 9,5mm from a 16mm film. And then, adding the cost of cutting and a small revenue. Can you get 35 euros? I don't know if it is a good price for a film b/w, but in times when a Super 8 Ekatachrome will cost € 49... Ok, Ekta is in color, but 9,5mm is more rare film, and the Fomapan mentioned above are 30 meters!
And if from 35mm Fomapan you can get THREE films 9.5mm would become really interesting.
Ok, you lose a lot of film, but to have 9.5mm... <3
And maybe the laboratory could offer a "cutting service", for a cheap price shipping cost excluded, for those who already have a film to "sacrifice".
Maybe there are users that would cut films already in their possession. For exemple, cut 16mm or 35mm films expired by not long time and refrigered, that still give a good result.
Bearing in mind that on ebay there are 16mm expired in the '80s, in the' 90s or in the '70s at little prices. I am one who would also do this.
I have bought a Kodachrome 16mm expired in 1979 at 3 euros, developed in black and white, as it is now, it gave me interesting results... With a cutting service I would have gladly cut it in 9.5mm!
Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on October 18, 2018, 06:07 PM:
I don't think its the complete end for 9.5 as you say its possible to reperf 16mm to 9.5mm. Roy Salmons did it this way with Ektachrome 100d I believe so there are other machines out there to do it but its very expensive, (also there is the issue as to WHY you would want to do it as 16mm cameras and films are superior to 9.5).
But also Spain make 9.5 b/w film. Is this still going? and a member from Germany makes his own 9.5 films.
It will be hard though for 9.5 to get back to what it had a few years ago with the supply of camera films. We may have to say goodbye to it as a filming medium.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on October 19, 2018, 03:09 AM:
Luigi, Color City doesn't want to handle black and white since it's forbiden to process it in France. The Club did not insist as there is still no lab to process 9.5 black and white film over 15mt (the Dutch lab cannot handle 30 mt lenghts).
Graham, reperforing 16 mm to 9.5 has been discussed but the price is certainly a problem. The advantage of reperforing from 35 mm uncut stock is that, as you know, get three strips of 9.5, which make it cheaper than 16 mm. That would be the best option to have Something viable. Other solutions would not bring something viable on a large scale. About black and white film, as I replied to Luigi, the trouble is to process the film. The Spanish lab that was contacted by the Spanish club process only negative film in 9.5 It seems that they are reluctant to make the invest of modifying their machine to be able to process reversal film as they say they have no demand for 9.5. It's a silly situation because people don't send them film to process because they don't process them and they don't start processing because they say they got no film The Spanish club was told by the lab that reversal processing should be available later but they have keeping saying that since more than one year. I don't think iy's the end of 9.5 but it may be the end of an easy access to filmstock and process. The French club is looking for a solution, Nothing is lost so far but we will need luck.
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on October 19, 2018, 09:33 AM:
Dom, I understand the reluctance because in France doesn't develop b/w, however, since the Dutch laboratory does not elaborate 30mt but only 15mt, France (or Spain) could produce film of maximum 15 meters? For users of cameras that accept only 30 meters there would be only the inconvenience of applying 15 meters of film on a 30mt reel.
I do a similar thing with the Double Super 8: my Pathé only accepts 30 meters reels, I buy also a 10 meters of Fomapan R100 and I apply it (in the dark, but it's not difficult at all, just wrap) on 30mt reels. Everything's fine.
On the other hand, 15 meters was an existing 9.5mm measurement, Color City had it.
[ October 19, 2018, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Luigi Castellitto ]
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on October 19, 2018, 10:33 AM:
Luigi, I wrote a long reply but it was lost 😠😠😠. Will reply again from my computer next week since I'm on the way to London to attend the 9.5 convention at Harpenden this Sunday.
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on October 19, 2018, 10:43 AM:
No problem, my friend! See next week.
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on October 23, 2018, 04:27 PM:
About 9.5 film stock: on ebay there was an announcement with a 9.5 film that was not very old, an Orwo. It was sold, otherwise I wanted to take it, for use it, it would not be difficult to make it develop (it was in 9 meters reels).
There is a minimum of interest around 9.5mm film stock, even just for collection.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on October 28, 2018, 12:08 PM:
Hello Luigi, sorry for the delay. Smaller lenghts of black and white are available (or were available, I didn't check recently if the Spanish club is keeping on producing film that cannot be easily process) but I think that smaller lenghts are more difficult to handle. Color City, indeed had colour stock of 8,20 mt and 14 mt but they had customers for that, I don't know if there would be such a high demand in black and white. Color city could, since they still have the machines, reperfor black and white films but without the process work benefit, it may not be viable for the lab. Not only, you have the trouble to reperfor but keep in mind that Color City would not provide camera spools that would not come back (unlike for colour stock that is sent back for process) so it's extra work if you must use customers'own spools (all that in the dark…). Kodak has not replied, yet, to requests about future availability of Ektachrome on 35 mm sotck (preferabily unperfored to get three 9.5 stripes). A German provider can sell colour stock to the club but at an high price. Given that Kodak is not cheaper neither, this German company may be reconsider (due to the "emergency") but nothing decided about that, yet. I contacted a British lab that process 9.5 colour stock to see if it was possible to process also black and white film but the answer was no (I Wonder why but so it is) but I got from them the contacts of another lab (based in London) that process black and white 8 and 16 mm films. I got no reply to my e-mail and they didn't answer the phone so no solution at the moment.
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on October 29, 2018, 03:27 PM:
Thanks for the info, Dom, we hope well.
You who go for festivals, frequent clubs, you are in contact with the format... do you think that a handful of enthusiasts that shot in 9.5mm exist?
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on October 29, 2018, 05:08 PM:
Well Luigi, I have no idea of how many ninefivers shoot regularly or wish to do so. All I can say is that when Color City announced that the Velvia stock would no longer be available from Fuji, the existing stock was sold much faster than expected and that there has been a demand after it was completely sold out.
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on October 30, 2018, 09:37 AM:
I am optimistic, I want to believe that there are so many to have a market. It's true that Color City sold well, and in all lengths.
But on this forum, it's just you and me who would like to keep shooting in 9.5mm?
Users, go out!
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on October 30, 2018, 10:33 AM:
No later than yesterday, a new (French) member of the Ciné-club 9,5 sent me an e-mail to ask me where he could have process a colour film (found unexposed in an old charger) he recently shot (he knows the results may be awful). He also wants to buy black and white film (it seems that the Spanish club has some spools left) to use it in his camera...
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on November 01, 2018, 09:07 AM:
Great, new members new market.
As I said, on ebay more buy expired 9.5mm, I don't know if they shot, I hope so!
Posted by Pablo Suarez (Member # 1765) on December 23, 2018, 03:11 PM:
where is the Spanish club you talk about? It would be great to meet them.
I have some 9.5 stock stored in the fridge that I bought from Graham Newnham a few years ago, and a 30m reel I bought on ebay (not very confident on this stock though). Do you know where could I get it developed?
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on December 23, 2018, 04:11 PM:
Hello Pablo. You can try this lab for 9.5 colour films (sadly they cannot process black and white in that gauge) : https://www.johnsalimphotographic.co.uk/motion.html At the time of writing, Color City in France can also process colour films but it's not clear if they will close down soon or not.
I have several e-mail adresses of Spanish ninefivers (I met them at the yearly festival in Calella close to Barcelona). Here is the official contact address from the French club (http://cine9.5mm.free.fr/es.htm) firstname.lastname@example.org. Should that address not work, I can give you other e-mails addresses via PM.
Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on December 27, 2018, 02:44 AM:
I shot my final 9-5 film this year and with no new good colour stock available I guess that will be it. Roy's UK film was a problem for some of us from day one with the home made oversized spools jamming in cameras. I've also now found out after trying to scan the completed films on a 20K scanner the sprocket holes are at a angle meaning the scanner cant register the frame causing excessive vertical jumping. It is as we know a costly process shooting with film so whoever comes up with the goods will need to get it right as the French have done over the years.
At the moment I'm shooting Super 8 on a Leicina Special with excellent results but I miss the fun of filming 9-5 with the good French perforated stock which was also excellent.
9-5 has been saved a number of times over the years but with no fresh stock on the shelf I fear this may well be it but I hope not.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on December 27, 2018, 04:03 AM:
Lee, I'm sharing your concerns. Color City 's website is no longer available from abroad, which is certainly not good news. I wonder what the machines will become. However, there is a little hope. I was unofficially told about possible new 9,5 colour stock but so far nothing confirmed.
Posted by Pablo Suarez (Member # 1765) on January 11, 2019, 05:01 PM:
Thanks a lot for the info. I didn't know about John Salim, but it looks great.
I will also try to get in touch with the Spanish 9,5 people. In case I have problems, I will drop you a line.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on January 12, 2019, 07:50 AM:
Welcome, Pablo. Don't hesitate to ask if you need to.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on January 15, 2019, 02:55 PM:
As promised, some updates. First, for the reperforing machines : a delay has been won until the end of February since Color City has not yet passed on its premises. Still no real satisfaying solution found but at least the machines still exist. Regarding the colour stock. Some news from an Australian ninefiver who said he found some 35 mm stock and has to reperfor it. I Can only assume (since I got no details) that there is a machine there. Another source : Fuji Japan could provide some 35 mm reversal stock but I haven't any details, neither. Until there is a life, there's hope 😉
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on February 05, 2019, 07:39 PM:
Dom, some other news?
What a bad thing to be able to find film stock for ALL formats (also Double Super 8, and I believe that in the world there are more 9.5mm cameras than DS8.) and not for 9.5mm.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 06, 2019, 12:48 PM:
Luigi, informations can vary from one day to another. Monsieur Colland told me at Argenteuil (at the Cine fair) that the German source didn't lead to anything but the day after he called the president of the 9.5 club to say he was trying another German source...The trouble is that it is possible to reperfor 9.5 film from 16 mm (or double 8/double super 8 of course) but that would mean that 9.5 would be more expensive than the other gauges. It is also possible to reperfor from perfored 35 mm film but then only two strips coule be made. To make something viable, 35 mm unperfored stock is looked for (to make three strips of 9.5). The good new, however is that the machines can stay a little bit longer in the premises of Color City. A solution to save them is still on the table (actually, I talked a lot about this problem and I mays have found the right personne but so far Nothing is done).
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on February 12, 2019, 07:56 PM:
I don't remember because I didn't buy that length, you, Dom, remember how much they cost 30 meters of color from Color City? To see what could be a fair or maximum price...
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 13, 2019, 02:28 AM:
I think (quiete a while…) it was around €65 process paid.
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on February 15, 2019, 05:37 AM:
It was a good price, considering that it was a color film, in the last a good Velvia!
Could think of this, for the B / W: Fomapan R100 16mm 30.5m (about 36 euros) + cutting (? euros) + development (price variable, for Fomapan there are also the development kits).
How much would it be? I could not say...
Posted by Rodney Bourke (Member # 1646) on February 19, 2019, 06:23 PM:
Hi Dominique your not to far from Color City France, are you able to visit and make contact with them, so you can Buy there 35mm to 9.5 perforating machine?
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 20, 2019, 04:23 AM:
Hello Rodney. It's not a problem for me to contact Color City or to visit them (I already went there several times) but I'm not sure I understand your request. Color City is looking for unperfored 35 mm reversal colour filmstock, they haven't any at the moment. They are still looking, the last time (three weeks ago) I had news, they were trying a German source but I don't know if that's progressing. Kodak answered an e-mail regarding filmstock from a member of the French club but, to consider manufacturing 35 mm again, they need a (I quote "significant volume to justify any development and testing expense". Needless to say, the 9.5 market is far away to be big, so I'm afraid Kodak will not be able to help us if only the 9.5 world needs 35 mm film.
Posted by Simon Wyss (Member # 1569) on February 20, 2019, 11:02 AM:
If I may suggest something, could you try to convince them to start the business again with black-and-white stocks. I am sure they can buy Fomapan R as unperforated 35mm, that’s an acetate base stock that will sell. All ORWO films can be had unperforated, so one or two negative stocks such as UN 54, N 74, and print film, PF 2 plus, would be attractive to Ninefivers, too. If the machine can handle polyester base films, a number of microfilm and microfilm duplicating stocks become accessible. These are generally not perforated.
I think the availability of any raw stock in 9,5 is more important than that of a -chrome film. In fact, Ninefive deserves microfilms for duplication work more than others because there are so many reduction prints around, prints of films lost in the original format. As a lab manager I am waiting for microfilms in 9,5. I want to offer archival techniques.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 20, 2019, 11:42 AM:
Hello Simon. Trouble is that black and white films can legally not been process in France, so the profit from reperforing only will be close to zero. Processing black and white films is a problem since only one lab does it but only up to 15 mt spools.
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on February 20, 2019, 05:25 PM:
Indeed, it's difficult for a non-seller calculate the profit margin.
We should try to do a survey: how much would cost to the laboratory a 35mm Orwo reversal or Fomapan R100 35mm not perforated for get three 9.5mm strips, and how much we could spend our buyers. Dom reminds that 30 meters of Velvia 9.5 process paid cost about 65 euros. Keeping in mind the lab would not do the process, which amounted at CC, I remember, about 15 euros, but the film was in color (and VELVIA!), we deduct certain euro... 25 less? Remain? 40 euros? I, for a 9.5m, would spend them.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 20, 2019, 05:35 PM:
Luigi, your price is, sadly, optimistic since both (colour) filmstock and chemicals have increased. Look at the price of the new Kodak cartriges (not process paid). I'm affaid we must be prepared for higher prices if 9.5 colour filmstock becomes available again (which I hope).
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on February 20, 2019, 05:47 PM:
It's true Dom, maybe it's an optimistic price.
But I can think about other calculations that could be useful: CC did not offer the reels (all have reels, for 9.5mm are the same of the 16mm, in the case of film cameras with magazines does not need reel), some small cost less; CC had some beautiful printed boxes (I still have lots of them), but I know we would be willing to have the film without them; now that I think, I bought 8,20mt x 3, then less than 30mt. Maybe, for this, it could sell 25m (I don't consider the 15mt lenght because I think it's very rare even in 9.5m), users of 30mt machines could be content.
The new Ekatchrome Super8, color + 15mt + cost of the cartridge, costs an average of 60 euros. Would we be willing to spend it for 9.5mm b / w?
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 20, 2019, 06:22 PM:
Luigi, the spools is one of the reasons why it's not viable for a company to reperfor films to 9.5 without process them. Unlike what you assumed, Color City sold the 15 mt and 30 mt (their main sales) on camera spools (and then sent the process films on 15 mt or 30 mt projector spools). That's possible if the camera spools come back to the lab, otherwise you end out of those spools. Of course, I cannot speak for Color City but I undersand the difficulties they're facing. Remember that black and white film is available from the Spanish club (but still no processing service for 30 mt lenght, which is problematic).
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on February 21, 2019, 05:15 AM:
My hypotheses are a bit vague, true.
I didn't remember that the 15m and 30m formats were shipped with spools, I only remembered 8.20, which had only a small core. I would not have said that 15mm was very sold.
Of the projector reels I remembered, but precisely after process.
Excuse me, I don't remember the point of the Spanish club: they can currently have all the measures of b/w cut in 9.5mm but can not sell it because they can't yet provide the development service?
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 21, 2019, 05:42 AM:
8,20 mt lengths were sold without spool because they were intended for cartridges cameras owners. Color City also sold (but not from their Internet site, I don't know why) 14 mt lengts, also without spools for other kind of cartridges.
The Spanish club may still have some black and white stock left (I know someone bought two spools recently) but they are no longer promoting it (neither am I) since the lab that was supposed to offer the process service seems not hurry to modify their machine. Of course, there is still process available in The Netherlands for lenghts up to 15 mt but I think the Spanish ninefivers were blanking on a lab in Spain. I will probably have more informations at the next festival in Calella.
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on February 21, 2019, 01:01 PM:
Ah, right, 14mt for certain magazine, true, Dom.
As for Color City, at this point, it would be better to sell the machine for cut. I wonder if there would be any interested buyers...
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 21, 2019, 02:14 PM:
The cutting machines used by Color City belong to the club. They are heavy and take space, so not easy to find a solution to keep them.
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on February 23, 2019, 02:00 PM:
We hope for a happy ending, my friend.
9.5mm is a very nice format, it's a shame not use it anymore. I think the French should try to reassess it also in terms of virgin stock film, it's their national heritage.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 23, 2019, 04:37 PM:
Believe me, Luigi, the French club is trying but without 35 mm stock, nothing is possible. And 35 mm is our World heritage we're loosing...
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on February 23, 2019, 07:32 PM:
More than the club, which I'm sure trying everything, I was referring to the whole of France and its wonderful invention of 9.5mm. It would absolutely be to save in all forms!
Posted by Simon Wyss (Member # 1569) on February 24, 2019, 03:00 AM:
quote:Dominique, that is not true. The French law forbids to dispose of chemicals and waste into the sewage, all baths must be recycled. A poor excuse of Color-City. Tell them that there is a need for cheap black-and-white film in the 9.5 mm format. I should buy 1,000 feet of simple positive at once (300 metres), preferably ORWO PF 2 plus.
Trouble is that black and white films can legally not been process in France
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 24, 2019, 03:41 AM:
Hello Simon. That was what I always heard from Color City and from other French people. I will ask again.
Posted by Simon Wyss (Member # 1569) on February 25, 2019, 09:56 AM:
To use chemicals in my Basel laboratory I had to attend a poison course as it was called then and pass an exam taken by the state. Then I was given a written permission and a number that I had to pass to every supplier but basically I was free to buy and use every substance. My lab for black-and-white film was open November, 1999 to July, 2008. Of course, that is long gone and laws have changed since then. There is number of labs in France that do black and white film treatment. I don’t understand Color-City.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 25, 2019, 11:19 AM:
I don't know any French lab that process reversal black and white cinefilmstock otherwise I'm sure it would have been contacted. Maybe there has been a misunderstanding with or from Color City. When I have the opportunity, I ask again.
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on February 26, 2019, 04:59 PM:
I took a tour on French lab sites, it seems that some who were developing b/w now don't do it anymore.
Dom, I didn't remember the machine was of the club, true...
Simon, but you could be a reference point for process 9.5mm? I have not understood well if you have the means to do it. Would you do it for "amateur" users?
Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on February 27, 2019, 05:35 PM:
Working in media for oh a very long time I need perfection. Regretfully Roys Reels as we called them didn't come an where near. Try and 2K scan it and you will see the sprocket holes are all over the place. What we need is a professional 9.5mm film Base.
We shot some frozen 9.5 B&W a few years ago and registration was perfect.9-5 is a wonderful format and second best will not do.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 28, 2019, 01:17 AM:
Mister Otte, in Germany, achieves perfect reperforing. Sadly, he cannot, as an amateur, make large amounts of films.
Posted by Simon Wyss (Member # 1569) on February 28, 2019, 11:48 AM:
My specialty is manual treatment of films in spiral reels and in large open trays in the dark. Closed tanks are fine for onesies and twosies but technically nothing that I could stand by.
Hand development is so much better than machine development, I can enumerate a handful of points. The most important advantage is best evenness across or along portions that go into the baths at one blow. The irregular moves one can do with the reel account for perfect constancy.
I have reels that take 100 feet (30 m) of 9.5mm film. Basically I can set up baths after any formula plus C-41 and E-6. The question of feasability has to do with the mileage. Filmers have become picky to the extent that a commercial lab cannot survive. I have only little experience with Ninefivers as they were the rarest among the rare but I fear that gratitude is not to be expected even if fantastic microfilms were made available and processed. I have lived such a fiasco with Gigabitfilm which was a 16mm microfilm together with specially adapted chemistry.
Amateur filmers want colour stocks, they want back Kodachrome. I do understand them all, to stop Kodachrome was a big mistake of Kodak. Kodachrome was the product of the Eastman-Kodak Company. Now with Ektachrome back up Kodak does not like the idea of offering it in 16mm. Unbelievable.
There must be several dozen, if not a few hundred active filmers for endeavours in this format. I don’t hear their voice. Clubs should make omnibus orders.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on February 28, 2019, 01:26 PM:
There is no doubt that the 9.5 market is small and cannot, alone, make a lab live. It has to be regarded as an extra. Simon, out of topic but Kodak has announced Ektachrome in 16 mm. Probably coming soon.
Posted by Simon Wyss (Member # 1569) on March 01, 2019, 12:24 AM:
That is good news. I hope, they will offer it in lengths up to 1200 feet. To think of cameras such as the Mitchell 16, Auricon Pro-600 and Super 1200, Kodak Reflex Special, and the many others with 400-ft. magazines . . .
And then one might hope Kodak will sell Ektachrome as unperforated 35mm to us Ninefivers. I have a Beaulieu R 95, a GIC 9.5, 9.5mm projectors, splicer. A precision printer is planned. 16mm step contact printer with RGB lights control ready.
By the way, 500-ft. spiral reels feasible at short notice, taking film widths up to 105 mm. Business partners are invited.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 01, 2019, 09:31 AM:
Simon, Kodak will not produce 35 mm since they need a large market to consider this. Two extracts of an answer from Kodak about 35 mm unperfored film : "Lack of commercial E-6 processors capable of handling long roll lengths of 35mm film make commercialization of an EKTACHROME product as a standard catalog item not practical at this time. Any requests for such a non-standard product would only be investigated after completion of the development of the 16mm format and would have to be of significant volume to justify any development and testing expense." and "While I cannot promise anything, please watch for the release of KODAK EKTACHROME 7294 Color Reversal Film in 16mm format."
Posted by Simon Wyss (Member # 1569) on March 01, 2019, 11:54 AM:
Thank you for that
It’s another cheap excuse. Ektachrome is present as unperforated 35mm stock in long rolls during the workflow to 135 cartridges. Kodak could deviate a roll or two and sell it just like that. But like I’ve read somewhere they collapse bureaucratically at such a move. The hens start laughing around the house.
Same with DS-8. Kodak simply keeps the market dry to justify bold prices.
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on March 02, 2019, 03:13 PM:
Meanwhile, on the internet there are several videos of people who have self-built a machine that cuts films. There are also some that cut in 9.5mm; I tried to contact them, but they replied that they don't do that job anymore.
Being small machines, they don't need large quantities of film to be cut, accessing and switching off the machine would be simple, they could therefore do it for small quantities.
I'm sure, if in the trade, it would not be difficult to find small quantities of stocks in b/w (color I don't think, too difficult) for cut.
If someone listening is able to build it, I would advise him to enter this business.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 02, 2019, 05:17 PM:
I hope someone does, Luigi. Keep in mind, however that you're using a camera that takes cartridges. For cameras that accept 15 mt and 30 mt spools, you need empty camera spools to put the film on it (otherwise less costumers would buy as not everybody is ready to load films on spools) and not many filmmakers have empty spools. Then, if you sell the films but not process them, the spools don't come back to you. If you process the films, then you need empty projector spools. Color City provides all that. I hope they can keep on the business as long as possible since it's not se easy to take over.
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on March 02, 2019, 06:23 PM:
Sometimes I'm too "easy", Dom, I don't think about these events. It's true that the spools 9.5mm 30 meters are equal to 16mm and very available, even at 2,3 euros, it's also true that the above spools are bought together with the cameras, even two at a time, but it's also true that I think style equipped user, there are many users who need those reels. As we said, of 15mt, compared to 30m, they are also rare. Let's say that what I look like is better than nothing, but the return of Color City would be magnificent! What do you know, are they completely closed or do they do some work? Examples, scans and similes.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 02, 2019, 07:08 PM:
Luigi, the 16 mm spools have the same central hole as the 9.5 camera spools but not the same width (so you could not close the camera). 30 mt 9.5 camera spools are advertised on EBay but without can, so if someone wish to use them, he will have to find cans (16 mm ones for example but then you must probably also buy spools together and that's if you can find them). All this has a cost. Not easy for an individual. Color City is still in activity, they has a last minute contract for a specific work (I don't know which one) with a well known company but I think until the end of March. I don't know what will happen after that. Last time I spoke with someone from Color City (in January), they were still looking for a 35 mm stock. There should be a 9.5 projection on the 19th March so I may learn more from the club but there are still works on electrical safety in the place we project. These works should end on the 15 th but if there is a delay, the projection will be cancelled. If I learn anything about Color City or film availability, I will post it.
Posted by Simon Wyss (Member # 1569) on March 03, 2019, 01:13 AM:
There are 35mm unperforated stocks available. Why is everyone so fixated on colours?
9mm½, to put it the French way, had begun with black-and-white film only and it was a success. Le Ciné-Club 9,5 de France should preserve its connection to the origins. As is stated on the club’s website:
- All ORWO films,
- all FOMA films,
- all microfilms and microfilm duplicating films,
- x-ray stocks,
- special graphic stocks
Après la défection des fabricants internationaux dans les années 1970, le Ciné-Club 9,5 s’est occupé en priorité de trouver du film au format 9,5 mm pour que les cinéastes de notre format puissent continuer à se livrer à leur passe-temps favori. Pour cela des machines à découper et à perforer le film ont été acquises, ce qui nous assure de pouvoir continuer à filmer sans être tributaire d’un fabricant particulier.
Si nécessaire je peux intervenir. Je parle français.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 03, 2019, 02:02 AM:
Simon, I have several black and white 9.5 films I cannot have process because there is no lab in the worlf that provide black and white reversal process for 30 mt lenght at the moment. There is a demand for black and white but not like for colour films. When Ferrania announced their come back, everybody believed them and we (all gauges) probably lost a precious time waiting for that Italian film that has never come instead of looking for other sources (you gave up yourself your black and white 9.5 project at this time, didn't you ?). The Club is trying to find a solution but the answer from big labs or manufacturers is always the same : the market is too small for them to be interested. The machines are still there but without stock they are useless.
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on March 06, 2019, 04:42 PM:
Ops, Dom, I said something wrong about the spools, you're right! And do you know why? I was thinking of my Pathé Webo DS8, that being DS8 has spools equal to 16mm, but the Pathé Webo 9.5mm of course not! Distracted.
Simon, for 9.5mm I would ONLY b/w, the color interests me for other formats, and even in those cases less than the b/n.
I also believe that the national heritage of that format must be saved, but I am very skeptical...
Posted by Simon Wyss (Member # 1569) on March 09, 2019, 12:26 PM:
The Club 9,5 could invest. Say, a slitter is commissioned and built, an apparatus that allows to cut up 120 mm or 190 mm wide rolls. Some interesting stocks in these widths are on the market. If someone could have a word with Baldini and Pagni to involve Film Ferrania in NINEFIVE . . .
I think they have perforators. They certainly can slit in any width.
New Ektachrome is a terrific stock but way overpriced. I am a Ferrania buyer as soon as there’s a film from Italy.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 09, 2019, 12:32 PM:
Ferrania already answered (After a very long, wasted, time) that they were not interested in 9,5 and that IF they make reversal film stock, they MAY manufacture 35 mm one, but at the end of the process. Needless to say, Ferrania is big disappointment for ninefivers.
Posted by Rodney Bourke (Member # 1646) on March 12, 2019, 07:19 AM:
I found this interesting site with 35mm to 9.5mm Perforating Machines
Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on March 13, 2019, 02:53 PM:
Thanks, Rodney, unfortunately films are old and some that are there and that I contacted no longer have an interest in 9.5mm machines.
Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on March 28, 2019, 05:07 AM:
I've just called Color City and asked what will happening with the change of management. The man I had on the phone told me that there would still be 9.5. Since, I didn't talk to Monsieur Colland, I didn't ask about the machines but that's promising ...
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