8mm Forum: 1.0 lens for Elmo GS1200

This is topic 1.0 lens for Elmo GS1200 in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on January 03, 2004, 01:57 AM:

Just saw this today. Its not mine for sale but someone here might be looking for one. I paid $350 for mine through the Widescreen Centre many years ago so the starting bid is not bad.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2976886554&category=15255

Good luck!

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on January 03, 2004, 01:59 PM:

Sorry Alan, but I think that is well over the top. Most f1.0's seem to sell for about £150 normally so I think the starting bid of £165 is a bit high. The guy should have started it at a lower price and put a reserve on it.
What do others think?
I prefer to use the excellent Schneider Xenovaron f1.1 which is every bit as good as the Elmo 1.0 for light output and seems crisper. I think it has a flatter field of focus.
Kev.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on January 03, 2004, 02:20 PM:

In regards to the price..true.. I could have been taken! It has happened before. [Smile]

I haven't tried the Schneider but I have been told by 2 people who have owned them both that the 1.0 lens is far superior. Ygnacio, the owner of the Fumeo 500 watt Xenon model who owns the Beaulieu with the schneider and the Xenon Elmo with the 1.0 says that you can tell the difference only with the SMPT test film. When you are watching a film he says the difference is unnoticeable. Do you have to get a sleeve to adapt the Schneider to the Elmo?

Posted by Chris Quinn (Member # 129) on January 03, 2004, 04:12 PM:

Paul Foster quoted me £185.00 for the f1.0 and £135.00 for the f1.1 if he had one, but can't find one [Frown]

I'm looking at this lens on eBay but unsure to bid or not, [Confused]

would love a lens like this but it is expensive, would i really notice a great deal of difference on my 5ft screen after using my standard Elmo f1.3. Trouble is i want it all, and i want it now, i don't really need food and I’m sure the building society will understand, along with the Inland Revenue. [Big Grin]

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on January 03, 2004, 04:20 PM:

Something which needs to be mentioned here is the Elmo lenses unfortunate habit of developing bloom.

I have an f1.0 which I bought for £120. It was advertised as new in its box and when I contacted the seller I was told it had never been used so would be in first class conditiion. When it arrived it was indeed in its original box with velvet lining and both end caps, further it didn't show any signs of wear, however it has a nasty case of bloom.

I had a quote about a year ago for this lens to be stripped, re-polished and re-assembled, it was £85 I shall probably have it done at some point, until then I'm happy using the f1.1 which seems to do just fine [Wink]

Mike

Posted by Ugo Grassi (Member # 139) on January 03, 2004, 05:37 PM:

I have the Elmo 1.0 and I think it's better than the others lens.
I have a ring to mount the Schneider on the Elmo, so I ran some tests. I used the SMPTE and one of my films shot in double super8.
With the 1.0 the focus was perfect on the center like the edges! Better than the Schneider 1.1 (note I have three Sch. 1.1). The sharpess was better too!

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on January 03, 2004, 07:40 PM:

Ok Guys I might have to bow down on this one but have any of you set the focusing screws on the lens holder for optimum sharpness across the whole of the whole picture? I suspect not. This has to be adjusted for optimum performance with the lens fitted. Bet no other manufacturers did this on their machines to get the best quality out of their lenses. I also agree with Mike. A lot of the Elmo f1.1 and 1.0 lenses are suffering from bloom. I have been told that this is due to the cement used for bonding some of the elements together within the assembly. The Schneider lenses are superb lenses but you can not just put the lens in to make a comparison you must set it up properly with the SMTP film or another good film such a a nice grainy non striped freshly processed film. If you take your 28mm xenovaron lens and put it into a sleve manufactured by whoever and tighten up the grubscrew to hold it into the sleve how on earth can you expect it to be in exactly the correct position in the lens holder. Elmo didnt give you the lens adjustment screws for nothing. Some Elmo machines I have come across give superb results with the 1.3 but give crap results with the Elmo 1.1 or 1.0. Thats down to the setup when they leave the factory. You have 3 screws on the Elmo lens holder for adjusting the optimum definition of the lens on ALL Elmo super 8 machines. Use Them!
Do it properly then come back and tell me the Schneider is crap. Why do you think Tony Shapps sold the Schneider Xenovaron instead of the Elmo lenses? One other point to note is that the Elmo Lenses give a slightly warmer/yellow look comparred to the Schneider/Isco lenses which look bluer. Kev. [Wink]

PS. Ugo I am after another 2 xenovaron 1.1 lenses so if you dont like them you have a buyer. [Smile]

[ January 03, 2004, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: Kevin Faulkner ]

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on January 04, 2004, 03:08 AM:

Well, I doubt I will add anything else sensible to this thread but the first thing is what is an Smt? film and where do you get one? I assume some sort of testcard?

Thanks Kev for the advice, I will try to find the screws this afternoon and then spend the rest of the week trying to get it back to where I was in the first place! [Wink]

Now, I have had 2 schneider Xeno's. Both were very different with the first not being as good as my 1.0 and the second being better than the 1.1 and about the same as the 1.0. I spent a whole weekend swapping lenses trying to see what the difference would be. I concluded that to some extent it was like judging a good wine-the differences to a newbie like me were very subtle.

I would agree Kev, that the Schneider is bluer and the Elmo 1.0 more yellow and this seems to suit some films better than others. Mary Poppins for example, is a little cold and I find the 1.0 warms it a touch.

What amazes me is the schneider is next to nothing in weight compared to the Elmo which is a joy to hold and look at. Then again I have only ever used schneider lenses in printing photo's and thought they were fantastic so no surprise re the projetion variety.

Chris, I have all 3 lenses- not sure where you are in Bedfordshire but perhaps we could meet sometime and you could see all 3 in action?

Tony

Posted by Ugo Grassi (Member # 139) on January 04, 2004, 03:51 AM:

Hi Kev.
if you want I have a Schneider 1.2 for sale. I have the others 1.1 on three different machines (a Bauer t600 and two Fumeo). I tried to mount the 1.0 on the Fumeo, but it's impossible because of the different distance between the lens and the film plane.
About the fungus or bloom inside the 1.0, if it is on the frontal lens, there is a way to clean it at home.
Take away the rubber ring around the lens, and then wrop a paper adesive tape (that one yellow) around the lens in the place of the rubber ring. Four or five turns are necessary. Take away the pin focus too (to avoid hurt to the hand).
Done? Well. Now with your hands unscrew the lens! When the first black aluminium ring will be disassembled, you'll get the frontal lens. Clean it with water and soap.
I did it on two Elmo 1.0 without problems.
About the SMPT, this is the link:
http://www.smpte.org/smpte_store/standards/
Send a mail to ask if they have again in the stock the super8 test film
here the test film picture
http://www.laboratoriomilano.com/soffitta_IMG_1.jpg

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on January 04, 2004, 05:28 AM:

Hello

There has been some talk about Kev' doing a piece for the FFTC magazine and I think this would be the ideal subject, perhaps Ugo and Kev' could join forces? I would very much appreciate a step-by-step manual on how to adjust the lens in my Elmo and also an idiots guide to setting up a Scope lens properly, I am sure that I'm not getting the best out of my scope films and nowhere have I been able to find a definitive guide about distances, focusing, depth of field and which lenses work best with which scope lens.etc.... How about it guys?

Tony, if you and Chris get it together for a meet up and a screening session perhaps Kev' and I could come along too [Wink]

Mike

Posted by Chris Quinn (Member # 129) on January 04, 2004, 05:54 AM:

Hi Mike,
Have sent a private message to Tony, Well up for a meet and screening, Great if a few of us could get togeather, love to meet you all.
Chris.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on January 04, 2004, 07:02 AM:

Hi Ugo, Yes please to the 1.2. I will email you privately about this.
Thanks for those links. I have some SMPT super 8 but it is getting a bit worn now so I will follow up your link and try to get some more. [Smile]

How about it then shall we put some articles together for the FFTC. I have also stripped the Elmo 1.1 lenses before and you are right they can be cleaned up as good as new. I would like to point out though that this must be done in a very dust free area otherwise the lens will get dust inside. [Frown]

Kev.

Posted by Barry Johnson (Member # 84) on January 04, 2004, 09:04 AM:

Everyone is enthusiastic about the quality/non-quality of the wider aperture projection lensesand their varying attributes.Everytime and quite rightly,the image on screen falls into question.
Could it not be the fact that the lens may be actually performingexactly as it is supposed to,and exposing (no pun intended) the inbuilt abberationsof the actual print.Furthermore,are you actually screening films for enjoyment or just to access the technical prowess of your machines?
This is Super8 we are talking here and when its good (more often than not) it is seriously good,but when it is poor its bloody crap and inadequacies will show even using a 1.3 lens,for that is what is on my 1200 and it vertainly shows up duff prints.
The most valid point raised above is in my opinion not the lens,but the adjusting of the gate mechanism and that is where most of the problems arise.

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on January 04, 2004, 09:20 AM:

Watching the films? Ahhhh that's where I have been going wrong. I seem to spend more time winding, cleaning and rewinding them! Then I just like watching the projector reels turning and checking the lens for bloom (if only I knew what to look for). By the time all that's done I have run out of time [Big Grin]

I agree with you Barry and suspect that this is a case of "Boys Toys" (sorry Girls-non PC comment) and there will always be someone who want to get a bit more horse power from somewhere.

Better sell those lenses......(Kev-joke mate [Wink]

)

Tony

Posted by Barry Johnson (Member # 84) on January 04, 2004, 09:52 AM:

Dammitall Tony! If its 'coming out' time in this film projecting world of ours then I too love watching the reels go round.
There.I've said it.
Anyone else going to come clean!!!!

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on January 04, 2004, 10:12 AM:

Have to say, I too spend at least as much time watching the projector as I do the image on the screen.

And as we're being honest with each other, is it only me that loves the smell of the cooling air being blown out of that little grill on top of the GS 1200? [Roll Eyes]

Mike

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on January 04, 2004, 10:25 AM:

Ahhh the smell from the little grill!!!!!!!! Enhanced more if you have just lubed your film.
Mike your right they all have that smell and I think its down to one of the greases used. A very characteristic smell indeed.
Me personally, well I like the side down on my GS so I can watch those little sprocket wheels turn and tensioner moving slowlu up and down. The trouble is the light tends to spill over the screen.
Kev [Wink]

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on January 04, 2004, 10:31 AM:

Somehow watching videotape wrap around the playback head and seeing the counter advance doesn't give quite the same thrill.
I believe Derann's Scope alignment reel would also serve the purpose of gauging lens sharpness.
Doug

Posted by Chris Quinn (Member # 129) on January 04, 2004, 11:09 AM:

No big secret here, i love my projectors, and watching them reels spinning, if we were only interested in the films we would all have boring video projectors. Buying film on celluloid, setting the projector up, putting the screen up, connecting the speakers, and then rewinding the film carefully back. Brill, not every one has this stuff at home; they have DVDs and Video, but not the real thing.

Posted by Ugo Grassi (Member # 139) on January 04, 2004, 11:51 AM:

Ahhhh the smell of the projector, and his skin, his arms... mhhh
I have a photo of a nuke GS1200 from "PLAYPROJ".. XXXrated thing...

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on January 04, 2004, 12:01 PM:

WARNING WARNING
ALL THOSE "SNIFFERS" READ THIS
CAUTION CAUTION

A "friend" was badly injured whilst performing the "sniff" exercise on an ST1200 . You are advised to ensure all nasal hair is trimmed to the appropriate length lest it get caught up in the fan blades...messy if you get it wrong.....

Ugo, I keep a piccy of my Elmo's in my wallet but they are all decent

Tony [Wink]

Posted by Barry Johnson (Member # 84) on January 07, 2004, 01:29 PM:

OK then guys,whilst everyone is coming clean on their sniffing habits,hands up those that take a deep breath and sniff the life out of a reel of film when taking it from its case?

Thought you might!!

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on January 07, 2004, 04:32 PM:

Better still Barry, How about the smell of fresh emulsion when you tear open that sealed foil with a fresh super 8 cart inside Ummmmm. [Cool]

Back to the original subjetc have you guys noticed that the bids have started on this f1.0 lens and its up to £227.00 [Eek!]

Kev.

Posted by Mal Brake (Member # 14) on January 07, 2004, 04:58 PM:

I wish some of these revelations had been posted sooner. It would have saved me a small fortune in psychoanalist fees trying to cure me of most of the quoted syndromes.
Mal

[ January 08, 2004, 04:07 AM: Message edited by: Mal Brake ]

Posted by Barry Johnson (Member # 84) on January 08, 2004, 05:28 AM:

Kevin: Well blind-on mate,cannot fault that one on fresh S8 cartridges.Hould not mention this on this site but 100ft spools of 16mm K40 really does get the adrenelin running!

Any more of this loose talk and we will be branded as junkies!! [Cool]

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on January 08, 2004, 09:01 AM:

Barry

I suspect that Brad will close the thread and banish us all forever.............

Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 31) on January 08, 2004, 10:24 AM:

The 1.0 lens on ebay is now up to $510...wow. Someone wants this really really really really really really bad.

Why cant I have that kind of luck when selling something on ebay.
ebay

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on January 08, 2004, 05:30 PM:

I can go one better than that. When I worked for Ilford Films in Colour R&D we used to open up 1000ft tins of 35 & 70mm colour film for sampling. You just cant imagine the waft that came out of those sealed tins. The best thing of all was being in the coating rooms when the emulsions were going down on film base. I allways though it must be like being in heaven. [Smile]

Anyway as you say Barry we have got a bit off topic now. Have you seen what this lens is up to now? Just under £300.00! I think that is real madness and the bidding still isnt over. Kev.

Posted by Barry Johnson (Member # 84) on January 09, 2004, 05:46 AM:

As for the price of that lens,desperation must rule,or said bidder has a pretty crap screen image too.Chances are the differences will not be worth the outlay.
Keep sniffin!!

Posted by Ugo Grassi (Member # 139) on January 09, 2004, 11:25 AM:

Bidding closed! A word only: foolish!!!
610$??????? Oh my God!

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on January 09, 2004, 02:42 PM:

The fellow who won(?) this auction has bought and sold a number of gs-1200's on eBay. Think he'd know better........
Doug

Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 31) on January 11, 2004, 06:06 PM:

I had no idea who this was until I checked. I just bought my GS1200 P Xenon from him. We had good business comunications.
I bet he bought this to spice up the price of another future GS sale.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on January 11, 2004, 06:15 PM:

Spice up the price or not, the guy must be mad to pay that for an f1.0 lens and without being able to see it. It could have the dreaded Elmo bloom and then he would have a fight on his hands. [Frown]

Kev.

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