8mm Forum: Brand Leader?

This is topic Brand Leader? in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on January 14, 2004, 09:56 AM:

If you look at the post "My First Post - introdution" Tony Milman said " It is a bit of an Elmo forum but I do have a Sankyo!"
Now does this show that maybe Elmo were the brand leaders where it came to the supply of Super 8 projectors?
I wonder if the brands went something like this:

1 Elmo
2 Eumig
3 Sanykyo
4 Noris
etc etc.

Does anyone else have a view on this. Was Elmo the brand leader and did they make the best machines? [Smile]

Yes I know I'm a bit of an Elmo freak but then I grew up and then worked with them. [Wink]

Kev.

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on January 14, 2004, 11:31 AM:

Now you see, I think it might be more likely;

Elmo
Sankyo
Eumig
Noris
etc...

But perhaps that's because I'm a bit biassed towards Sankyos. [Cool]

Mike

Posted by Trevor Adams (Member # 42) on January 14, 2004, 12:49 PM:

I would have thought that at the height of 8mms popularity there would have been more Eumigs per square mile than any other brand.
Back in the "silent" days I know that ,in Australasia,Bell & Howell was a far bigger name than any Japanese brand.Trev

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on January 14, 2004, 02:38 PM:

Where do CHINONs rate? I've had two that were nice machines. I heard EUMIG sound heads go rater quickly? T/F?

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on January 14, 2004, 03:38 PM:

Ok Point made Mike.
Trev maybe you are right but I'm thinking of world wide. I thought Eumigs were more common in Europe and certain other markets. You certainly used to see them sold in normal Chemist shops here in the UK. But what about the US etc. Brad the Chinons sold here in the UK were only sold by one photgraphic chain (Dixons) so I think much lower numbers were sold compared to the likes of Elmo and Eumig etc. Also there were many Independent dealers selling cine gear back in the hey day of super 8. [Smile]

Kev.

Posted by Tim Christian (Member # 48) on January 14, 2004, 04:49 PM:

Don't know about brand leader, but you guys seem to have more trouble with your Elmos than I do with my Eumigs and Chinons. [Wink]

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on January 14, 2004, 04:51 PM:

If you look thru back issues of ACW or Movie Maker, the thing that really stands out is the very heavy advertising of Eumig projectors, and not much Elmo. Eumig were the first Company in the world to offer an economical 8mm sound projector, with Halogen lighting and auto threading -they were'nt called "The Wizard's of Vienna" by Ivan Watson for nothing. They also had a winning 8mm silent projector (the P8) which revolutionized projector design at the time, in terms of low voltage lighting, reel arm position, and compactness. So I think you could conclude that Eumig pretty well dominated the UK and European markets (and most deservedly so!). It is also clear from this side of the pond, that they also had good penetration into North American markets, particularly Canada. It is interesting that nearly all of the very late Eumig designs such as the 938 and 940 that are being sold on EbAY are by Canadian sources, so maybe these particular models were never imported into the USA.

Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on January 14, 2004, 05:46 PM:

Kodak and Bell&Howell were the most common machines in my area of northeast Pa. in the 1960's thru mid '70's. The first super 8 sound projectors available locally here in the early 1970's were the Kodak Ektasound sync system(one local camera store eagerly gave elaborate, info-mercial style demonstrations hoping to make sales of this awkward and, in my opinion, poor quality system) and then later, the B&H magnetic sound Filmosonic in 1975. The only other brands I remember in the local camera stores were generic models and Chinons in the late '70's(I still have my good old Chinon 7500). Other than in the pages of Super8Filmaker magazine, which, like Paul stated about the other mags, had a lot of Eumig adverts along with Elmo and all the others; I had my first upclose look at an Elmo ST1200 in 1978 at Ron(Red Fox Films)Knorr's house when I went there to buy films. It was set up to run a film and was a VERY impressive sight!, as it was the first time I saw 1200'super8 reels. I thought, this must be the top of the line machine that dealers prefer...definitely a "brand leader" [Smile]

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on January 15, 2004, 02:41 PM:

Yes Joe,
I imagine that Bell&Howell and Kodak had most of the US market for 8mm projectors, but I have never been very enthusiastic about either of these companies super 8mm equipment. Certainly, prior to about 1960, Bell and Howell 8mm equipment was superb, with beautifully designed and manufactured standard 8mm projectors such as the 606H/Regent and Filmo's. But around about the advent of Super 8, they started turning out very poorly designed plastic projectors, and I don't think they ever made a good super 8 sound projector (with the exception of the re-labelled Sankyo's). So most of my memories of Bell and Howell equipment is of poor performance and scratches!
Similarly Kodak had a superb S8mm sound projector based on the 16mm Pageant design (I had one of these and it was very good, with 150 watt lighting and 1600ft spool capacity- I kept the superb F1.0 fixed focus Ektar lens off one of these for use on my Eumigs), but soon reverted to cheap plastic projectors such as the horrible Ektasound and Moviedeck designs, and their clunky Ektasound camera.
These of course appealed to the masses, and no doubt thousands were sold at Kmart, Sears, and Mongomery Ward. But if you really wanted quality equipment you had no choice but to buy European (Eumig, Bolex, Beaulieu)or Japanese( Elmo, Sankyo, Chinon) equipment. Too bad, because prior to 1960 B&H and Kodak had world class projectors - among the best equipment you could buy.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on January 16, 2004, 02:12 AM:

Although the Bell and Howell DCR and DCT's were very good machines. My brother has had a DCR machine since they were first produced and it's still good.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 16, 2004, 07:53 AM:

In defense of the Moviedeck: my parents bought me a brand new one about 25 years ago and I have been using it steadily ever since. It has to have one of the best autothread mechanisms ever built, I doubt it's failed to thread 5 times since I got it. It is also very gentle on the film. It is also extremely easy to set up: you take it out of the case, you plug it in, and you're basically there. It is always my first choice when I want to very quickly see something silent.

Gripes?, well it is limited to 400 feet and the optics aren't as sharp as my Eumig and Elmo sound projectors, but based on the advantages it offers, I'm more than happy to have it.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on January 18, 2004, 09:03 PM:

I have a Sears catalog from 1981 I think and they were selling a lot of Bell and Howells, one Elmo, one Eumig (the horrible 926 stereo), and a few Chinons. My first projector was a Chinon. Hated the 50 watt bulb and it chewed almost everyone of my films up!
Then I bought a GS1200 used for $400 in mint condition. Ah...love at first sight...

Posted by Chris Quinn (Member # 129) on January 19, 2004, 03:03 AM:

To the defence of Chinons. I had two some years ago now, and they were both good little projectors, never caused any problems, Ok now i have Elmos, but the little Chinons from Dixons, i beleive, ran well.

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