8mm Forum: Acadamy leader,3 2 1

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Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 13, 2005, 12:08 PM:

How come acadamy leader which we all know so well only ever counts down to 3 and why always upside down? Bit of a pointless question i suppose but someone asked me the other day and i didn't have a [Confused]

clue

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on March 13, 2005, 12:46 PM:

Don't feel bad, I don't understand those academy leaders with their cue marks and whatnot at all...! A few numbers here, a few lines or dots or white flashes there, and then the feature starts, that's all I care about to be honest [Wink]

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on March 13, 2005, 01:07 PM:

I believe the reason the countdown stops at 3 (after the sync "pop") is to give the projector time to get up to speed (from its cue point) before the audience sees the image.

Doug

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on March 13, 2005, 01:10 PM:

I just went searching for a definition:

Academy leader : The visual countdown that precedes the first program frame of a motion picture. Symbols and numbers on the academy leader are used for aligning the various film reels and the optical track for composite printing, for aligning the workprint and edited soundtracks for mixing, and for timing the change-over from one reel of film to another during projection. Academy leader contains one number per foot following the Picture Start, with 11, 10, etc., leader to three. (As projected, these numbers appear upside-down.) Named after the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, which sets all film format standards.

Doug

Posted by David Roberts (Member # 197) on March 13, 2005, 02:23 PM:

When I was in my teens(many years ago,I had a part time job at the local flee pit as projectionist,no less. To change over reels from one machine to the other ,it was necessary to time the incoming machine so that it was up to speed just as you clicked to change over. This numbered leader was used to achieve this, since by lacing the projector on number eleven,it syncronised with the cue dots on the outging reel.
The Acadamy leader made accurate changeovers possible in the days when most Cinemas ran 2000ft reels on two projectors,changing them over every twenty minutes.

David.

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on March 13, 2005, 02:47 PM:

A little leader "history"

There are three types of leaders:

Academy
Society
and SMPTE Universal

In each case the leader is 12 feet of 35mm film long and the 12th foot is the "picture start". Various studios would synch tracking differently, the most common was a three foot start but Paramount and some others used a one foot start (that's where the beep or pop was located).

The Academy leader is the one with the 11 - 10 - 9 - 8 with 15 frames of black in between and are footage counts from the first frame of picture. The are upside down so that a projectionist will see them right side up when threading his projector. The projectionist has to compensate for his reaction time and the start up speed of a projector to match the change-over cues on the out going reel. The last two feet are black to help protect against opening the douser too soon.

The Society leader was devised by the SMPTE for television and uses the same count down features but has a "target" to show the edges of the frame and safe action area on a telecine so that a master control operator known when to "take" the telecine to air.

The Universal leader was designed to replace the above two leaders by the SMPTE and uses seconds rather than feet and a clock sweep to show progress. It was successful in television but not in theatrical release.

You also notice (if it isn't cut off by the negative cutter) that there is a single frame change over dot at one frame before first frame of picture.

The specifications for each and every frame are spelled on in SMPTE starts for leaders.

There are also standards for end leaders.

FWIW, the frames on the Universal leader that are marked with "C" and "F" in the corners are frames that can be replace with a control picture for lab use. For some reason labs always seem to leave those frames in place and cut their china head in a different location if they use one.

BTW, its the SMPTE that writes the standards for film formats (and video formats) in the USA and works with other countries in conforming them to ISO standards. The Academy puts on the Oscars and at one time in history has a research arm but that's all ancient history.

John
(Who was a member of SMPTE for over 30 years)

Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on March 13, 2005, 03:20 PM:

Thanks, John, that is very cool information. Now I will know which film was used for TV, etc. Like I said before this forum abounds with information. [Wink]

Now if I can only figure out how to turn this darn thing on!! [Big Grin]

[ March 18, 2005, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: Dan Lail ]

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on March 13, 2005, 07:06 PM:

So what I still have trouble understanding here is this: ... how is a projectionist able to get the incoming film going EXACTLY IN SYNC with the outgoing film, as to ensure a smooth, completely glitch-free transition in both picture and sound? I'm thinking of some mega-features like Titanic or Dances With Wolves and remember that when I saw those in the cinema I never saw ANY evidence of a switchover, ever. How do they do it so well?? I mean, frame-exact and all? With no pause, however short, no crossfading, no nothing? It still boggles my mind, and the less I realize I really understand about a projectionist's job, the more it impresses me. [Eek!]

I guess I always used to imagine 35mm projection booths as merely gigantic versions of super-8 projectors, with equally gigantic reels mounted vertically on gigantic reel arms. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Ricky Daniels (Member # 95) on March 14, 2005, 06:30 AM:

Back at the BBC in the 70's the news department had news reports on film, videotape based electronic news gathering (ENG as it was known) was not around. The news items had a film leader that counted down to (1) to allow for a visually acurate count-in for the production team... just for the record that was an exception to the general cinema leader spec.

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on March 14, 2005, 09:25 AM:

Hi Jan and everyone else

Back when you saw Titanic in 1998 or 99, you probably saw it on a booth that had one projector and a platter system. The heads and tails were removed from the film print reels and the film was one long complete print. Guided by rollers, to and from the machine. If you see Brad Miller's picture here in the forum, there's a platter behind him in the shot. When the film print finished it's booking, hopefully the heads and tails were re attached during the break down procedure. But whether it was done correctly or at all is another story. The point being that theaters haven't really used twin machine setup for many years. There are some twin machine houses still in existance, but you really need to seek them out and know where they are.

Chip G

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on March 14, 2005, 12:58 PM:

Chip

My local theatre still has a twin machine set up, and here it is;

These projectors were installed just after WWII and are still running everyday!

Bet they've seen a few feet of academy leader [Wink]

.

Mike

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on March 14, 2005, 02:29 PM:

Tom

thanks for asking that question, I was wondering about it for a while and meant to post the same query.

interesting replies. Surprised Mr O'Reilly didn't pick up on this - he recently educated me on head flats and tail flats.....

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 14, 2005, 03:02 PM:

Wow, brill info. Thanks to all for that. Another topic for the mag if someone fancies a go. [Wink]

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on March 18, 2005, 05:17 PM:

quote:
I never saw ANY evidence of a switchover, ever. How do they do it so well?? I mean, frame-exact and all? With no pause, however short, no crossfading, no nothing? It still boggles my mind, and the less I realize I really understand about a projectionist's job, the more it impresses me.

In a two machine booth, the accuracy has a tolerance of about four to eight frames (1/4 to 1/2 foot). A "cued" film has change-over marks in the upper right hand corner of the screen and the first dots flash for four frames at 12 feet from the end of the reel and are known as the "motor cue" and that's when the projectionist starts the incoming machine. With his experience in the booth, he knows his own reaction time and the start lag of the machine and has threaded the proper number of feet in the gate. If everything was perfect then "picture start" would be in the gate, but more likely it's around "8". The second dots flash for four frames at 11 feet and then the projectionist hits the change-over douser and the picture and sound move from projector A to B.

There are four or a few more frames following the change over dots and the incoming machine may actually start a few frames into the picture but the standards for reel changes (written in the SMPTE Standards) specifies that no critical action or sustained notes occur over the change-over. Ideally there would be a scene change without music and any error of 1/2 second wouldn't be detectable.

Nowadays, films are made up on platters and the reels are spliced together and the magic of the change-over is gone. This would have been impossible in the days of nitrate film since one spark on an open platter would have vapourized the booth!

John

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on March 18, 2005, 06:24 PM:

Fantastic. Thanks for the explanation John. [Smile]

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on March 18, 2005, 08:32 PM:

O.K., now- Can someone out there tell me what those WIERD faces are for that pop up, almost subliminaly, just quick enough to freak people out, as they turn to me and say "What the heck did I just see?"

My wife is scared to death of the one that looks like a maniquin or something [Eek!]

.

Nick.

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on March 18, 2005, 09:16 PM:

Beats me!? How about a screenshot?...

Posted by Ricky Daniels (Member # 95) on March 19, 2005, 08:56 AM:

James,

I think you are referring to the colour/density test charts that often include a mannequin or model for skin tone reference.

Rick

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on March 19, 2005, 08:01 PM:

Rick- I think you are right. It's always been a mystery to me. Thanks for the info.

Nick.

Posted by Martyn Bennett (Member # 263) on March 20, 2005, 05:00 PM:

Great thread, takes me back to when i was a youngster and the projectionist at my local "REGAL" used to let me do changeovers at bit nerve racking to start with, but soon got used to it.
Anyway what i wanted to know is can you buy super 8 acadamy leaders anywhere, when my home cinema is up and running i want to do changeovers and i am a bit short of leaders.
Thanks. Chief projectionist Redditch Regal (my home cinema)

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on March 20, 2005, 09:21 PM:

quote:
O.K., now- Can someone out there tell me what those WIERD faces are for that pop up, almost subliminaly, just quick enough to freak people out, as they turn to me and say "What the heck did I just see?"

James,

If they're in the leader, they're control patches that the lab uses to track print quality. Called either "girl heads" or "chinas" they are SUPPOSED to be inserted in the leader in the four frames with the "C" and "F" in the corners for control frames.

Some labs (including Technicolor IB prints" will sometimes put them on the run out or tail leader.

Another interesting thing on IB Prints is the synch control numbers that are at the end of the reel. These numbers run one per frame and will run 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16 and were used by the technicians to spot matricies that were printing early or late so they could be adjusted before another bad print was made.

John

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