8mm Forum: Eumig 810D?

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Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on September 17, 2005, 09:55 AM:

On my separate thread about standard 8mm movies, enthusiast David Pannell mentioned using a Eumig 810D.

David, I have seen one for £275 from a dealer and am considering getting a good standard 8 sound machine. Do you or others think this is a reasonable price?

I wonder if anyone could be kind enough to fill me in on basic specs. Like what bulb it uses, what lens it has and maybe how reliable you have found this machine (when were they last made, I wonder?)

Basically I'm looking for a good standard 8mm machine with a big picture and reasonable sound so any other suggestions would also be appreciated.

Thanks in advance [Smile]

Posted by Mark Norton (Member # 165) on September 17, 2005, 10:54 AM:

Rob,

My first projector was an Eumig 802D [Dual]. It was easy to switch from super8 to standard8 and for nearly 20 years it gave no problems and didn't scratch films. 100w bulb and good sound 600ft capacity. I let it go as I don't screen standard 8 and had little storage space.

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on September 17, 2005, 11:25 AM:

I think the Eumig S8xx machines are about your best choice for dual-8 machines with sound, with the sound itself being of high quality at that. 12V/100W EFP bulbs are cheap and easy to get... the only thing to watch out for (from what I've read around here) is the rubber wheel drive which may wear out over time and slip, but a good cleaning should take care of that (there is no belt, actually).
These Eumigs come with good 1:1.3 zoom lenses... the "Lux" models have a bright 1.2 lens for those big pictures.

But 275 pounds? Rip-off, if you ask me [Eek!]

... OK, "rip-off" may be a bit harsh but at that price, I would expect a MINT-CONDITION, PERFECTLY WORKING model (...preferably a Sonomatic S824D Lux with twin-track sound :grin: ) with everything adjusted and replaced as necessary. For your typical used/working eBay unit, spend no more than 100 pounds...

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on September 17, 2005, 11:30 AM:

Hi Rob,
I totally agree with Jan, 275 pounds is way too high for a Eumig 810D. You should not have to pay more than 125 pounds for an 810, and at that price it should be in tip top condition.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on September 17, 2005, 12:16 PM:

Thanks guys. I should stress that this price was from a very good dealer, so even though I have not checked on the condition, I would imagine it is excellent. Also, of course, he has to add a decent warranty into this price.

Even so, this was more than I had wanted to spend really, so it is good to know that I should be able to find a decent machine for a lot less (anyone know of one for sale???)

Thanks again for your help [Smile]

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on September 17, 2005, 12:44 PM:

Rob, watch Ebay. Eumig 800's pop-up there regularly.
A dual-format 824 was just listed on Ebay France (click here) .
I already bought stuff from this seller, his items are in really good condition.

Posted by Tim Christian (Member # 48) on September 17, 2005, 01:25 PM:

Second everything said about the 810D. I have both the 810D and the 802, both are excellent machines but the 810 has the edge.
I'm just upgrading mine to take 150 W lamps.

One went for £150 on ebay a couple of weeks ago. Of that dealer's £275, probably about £40 of that is v.a.t. Then he's got some liability to offset, and some work to check it out (an EFP lamp is £7 trade), so it isn't so bad.

If you are prepared to take the chance and do some maintenance, then you can save some money, of course.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on September 18, 2005, 07:02 AM:

Yes the 810D is a very good machine. Still got the intructions book from the first one my Brother bought brand new in shp in Plymouth. We wrote the price we paid on the front cover. purchased in 1974 it cost £274.99. WOW. [Eek!]

Now you can get a good one generally for between £100-£150 tops. That said, if you get a good one and are happy to pay then why not? you never know when the next "good" one will turn up. [Wink]

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on September 19, 2005, 08:47 AM:

Thanks to all for the great advice.

A Eumig S810D LUX is on it's way to me.

From an excellent dealer so should be tip top and at the right price.

Thanks to everyone's good advice I feel sure now that I have made the right choice for the right money [Smile]

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on September 21, 2005, 06:06 AM:

Hi Rob,

Sorry I haven't responded earlier, but I have been away on business.

Can't add to what's already been said. It's a super little machine. The thing about these over the earlier Eumig dual gauge machines, is that you change the gate assembly and the sprockets to suit either Super 8 or Standard 8, rather than the old compromise of not doing so, with the (quite often, but not always) result of damaged film eventually.

You won't go wrong with a good condition 810D. [Big Grin]

ENJOY!

Best,

Dave.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on September 28, 2005, 03:38 PM:

David, the Eumig has arrived and I've just had a chance to give it a quick check over.

I love the changeable sprockets and gate assembly; what a piece of engineering!

It looks in great shape. It took me a while to digest the instruction manual and get the hang of changing formats, but what great fun. I wonder what a "pop-in-and-play" DVD generation might make of all this!!!

Reading through the immaculate condition instruction manual which proudly explains that I have made a great choice of machine and boasting the advantages of the LUX version, I felt like I had been transported back 30 years and bought the machine new!

Looking forward to giving it a full work-out as soon as I get time.

Posted by David Pannell (Member # 300) on October 01, 2005, 04:23 AM:

Rob, glad you seem to have found a really nice one - I'm gradually turning green - as mine unfortunately isn't the Lux version, though I have no problems with the regular model.

I'll be interested to hear what you think of its performance, - how quiet it is, etc. etc.

Cheers for now,

Dave.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on October 01, 2005, 05:58 AM:

I've tried it out properly now and it really is nice.

One slight glitch is that it does seem to run a bit slow at 24 fps. You can hear it in the sound. Not too bad but I wonder if this is something easily fixed.

Otherwise it is great, quiet with a nice steady picture and the sound is very clear.

Nice bright picture too and very sharp. Interestingly, I have heard that the Suprogon lens with the LUX version was a 1.2. In the manual I have it is refered to as a 1.0, but the one on the machine is a 1.1? Maybe they made different verisons of the Suprogon?

UPDATE: Just read back over this thread and Jan's comments on the rubber drives. Looked back into the forum and found the thread on cleaning the drives etc. This seems to be my problem with the speed. I'll check this out and report back!

Posted by Tim Christian (Member # 48) on October 01, 2005, 06:23 AM:

On the 810D, the speeds are set by the shape of the bracket on the end of the 50/60 Hz switch inside the machine, above and to the left of the drives. This is not easy to remove and adjust. My 810D runs at 23.6 fps and 18.4 fps, loaded. My other Eumig 8xx and 9xx models have similar speeds. (Speeds are measured digitally with an accuracy of better than 0.1%.)

Where you are used to hearing film sound tracks on TV, where 24 fps films are often shown at 25 fps, it is easy to imagine the projector is runnung slow.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on October 01, 2005, 08:51 AM:

Hi Tim, I know what you mean about being used to 25 fps on TV, but the speed is definately a bit too slow.

I cleaned the drive discs but this didn't help. Tell me more about the 50/60Hz switch...

Posted by Seppo Tollikko (Member # 151) on October 02, 2005, 02:38 AM:

This speed problem is quite common in those Eumig 8XX series projectors. Their bearings are sealed and the lubrication becomes a little sticky during the no-use years in the upper self. Besides the usual service of the belts and other parts the projector may need gymnastics. Running them a couple of times (no bulb or film needed) long enough to let the bearings receive the warming from the motor heat may help to re-animate the lubrication. I have had success.
Also note the speed selector knob which is usually quite sticky and may not be in the right position every time when moved back and forth.

There is a long range of objectives suitable to fit in the Eumig projectors and though there was the "standard" (often a couple bit different) for each model, it was a quite common practice to upgrade the objective to the buyers needs right away when purchased or later when faster objectives became available. If the projector has changed hands a few times, no one can be sure whether the objective is "original" or not.

If You are recording to the magnetic track, try with some other machine. This is the known weak point of 810 projectors.

Posted by Tim Christian (Member # 48) on October 02, 2005, 09:59 AM:

It is true that the grease in all projectors will get hard with time, and the self-lubricating bearings (ball-shaped brass-coloured, in metal cages) get passed their sell-by date. The practical solution for metal surfaces is to apply a LITTLE thin oil to thin the grease. I use Aeroshell 500 turbine oil, but any thin mineral oil will do. AVOID getting this on any plastic items: in a year or so they will embrittle and probably fall apart. Apply the oil, then run the projector for a while to get it to penetrate. For plastic surfaces, wipe off as much of the old grease as possible and replace with a grease intended for plastic surfaces (sold for video and dvd players).

The speed range of the Eumig 8xx is set by a large, shiny-metal screw just above the shaft that carries the two rubber-faced drive disks. This runs through a slot in black metal plate through which the 50/60 Hz switch passes. It clamps a shiny-metal bar through another slot. The further down this bar is, the faster the projector will run. Usual top speed is in the range 27.5 to 28 fps.

Adjustment of speed requires the use of a suitable meter: either a true r.p.m. indicator (measures the interval between pulses from the sensor) or a digital frequency meter (measures the number of pulses in a given time). The adjustment is very delicate; speed is extremely difficult to set by ear alone. I would not recommend attempting this adjustment unless you have the correct equipment and tools, and are used to using them.

Measure the speed with the projector running forward, with the lamp on, and with the take-up spool spigot clamped stationery to simulate a film load.

Examination of the metal bar below the clamping screw shows that there is a small hole in it below the slot. Once the speed-measurement equipment has been set up, and with the projector UNPLUGGED, set the speed control lever into a mid position. Insert a suitable instrument screwdriver in this small hole and hold it in place. Then, with a thin, but broad screwdriver, slacken off the adjustment screw no more than a half turn. This should allow the slotted bar to be moved UP slightly. (Movement of this bar about 2 mm covers the entire range of speed between about 23 and 28 fps, so only a slight movement should be made between speed measurements.) Now, tighten the adjustment screw, set the speed control lever to 24 fps and measure the speed. Repeat this adjustment until the required speed is attained.

Finally, check that both the 24 fps and 18 fps speeds remain correct. It is a good idea to check this in the 60 Hz (or 50 Hz if you a running on 60 Hz) position of the switch, checking that the speed corresponds to the ratio of the frequencies.

These instructions are based on my examples of Eumig 8xx machines. Euming were fond of making minor changes during production, so check your machine before starting.

I have never has sound recording problems with any 8xx machine. Then, I clean the heads and adjacent guides thoroughly and regularly.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on October 02, 2005, 11:07 AM:

Thanks Seppo and Tim.

I will print off your instructions Tim for future reference.

I think the sensible thing to do for now is just use the projector and see if it loosens up; Seppo, you're probably right about it not being used for a while. It is from a really good dealer who will have checked it over thoroughly but of course, it may not have had a proper work-out for some time.

I'll just enjoy it for now and see what happens [Smile]

Other than that (which isn't really a big problem) it is a great little machine and I'm very pleased with it indeed.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on October 03, 2005, 09:58 AM:

Well after only a few more hours use the speed problem seems to have cleared up.

The projector now runs perfectly [Smile]

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