8mm Forum: ST 1200HD 24fps wheel problem!

This is topic ST 1200HD 24fps wheel problem! in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Norman Fisher (Member # 481) on November 08, 2005, 08:11 PM:

Hello all! I am a newbie to the forum, although not new to Super 8. Feeling nostalgic I recently dug my ELMO ST1200 out of storage, and set about getting it repaired. I have had it since 1975, but the belts turned to goo in the late 80s, so I filed it away and forgot about it. I won't bore you with the bloody details of the two camera repair stores that tried and failed to fix my Elmo up to speed. Long story short, both places used the wrong belts, bad judgement and overcharged me for doing nothing. After getting it back from them, the speed never played at normal at 24FPS. It always ran too fast. I was out over $200.00 in repair bills from them. Finally, I found an Elmo specialist, and he diagnosed my problem: The issue with the projector lies in the 24fps wheel. The motor does not have enough torque to turn over the projector when the belts are put in place. The excess tension seemed to be located in the speed wheel. He took apart the 24 frame wheel, and then the worst happened! The entire bronze bushing that supports the wheel broke right in half! Has anyone ever had this problem? He told me these will eventually break with a lot of use, but I never used nor abused this projector over the years so I can't understand why this happened. He has no replacement part for this at all. Can someone please help me! What is my best bet to finding this part? Or should I just junk this projector and try to find another one off Ebay?

Thank you-----Norman

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on November 08, 2005, 09:55 PM:

Hi Norman,

welcome to the forum. [Smile]

Sounds to me like the two camera shops that, uh, handled your Elmo did more damage than good. I cannot imagine that a bronze bushing would simply break due to age; at least this is the first I ever hear of this happening! [Eek!]

Now the question is, does your ST1200 work OK otherwise? And are you happy with it? If yes to both, by all means stick with it and get a replacement bushing... the best way to do which is by picking up another for-parts machine. But you may be better off getting a working replacement unit, perhaps an ST-1200HD (nicer design and twin-track sound capability) or something entirely different. It all depends on what you're into and how much you can afford... Do you just want to see old home movies or cartoons/short comedies again, or are you into full-scale cinema presentations with stereo sound and maybe widescreen (scope) format like some of the people around here? [Wink]

BTW, I have a dead ST-1200D laying around for parts... but the one part you need is unfortunately not in there (much of it is already gone). I wish I could help you out... but maybe someone else can!

Posted by Norman Fisher (Member # 481) on November 08, 2005, 11:09 PM:

Actually my Elmo IS the 1200HD with twin track sound. I neglected to mention that in my post. I still have all the accessories including the black case, mic, brushes, and even the original shipping carton. The 3 Q-tips are still sealed in plastic! (( I always thought that an odd choice for ELMO to include)) Yes, other than the bronze bushing that broke, the projector is in mint condition and works very well. I am very happy with it. I am definately in this for the full-scale cinema presentations with stereo sound, like some of the people around here. [Big Grin]

I suspect the two camera shops helped aid the destruction of the bronze bushing. Because when I got it back from them, the only way I could get the speed to run properly was to press up on the 24/18 FPS button located in the back. The second guy I took it to insisted on his life that the 1200HD only took ONE BELT and not two for the motor! Even when I showed him in the manual that it took two, he still didn't believe it. And then he put it around the 50HZ position, when I showed him the projector is labeled for 60hz!

$$$ are not a problem, so I do either want to fix this one up or get a new one for parts as you suggested.
I have found an Elmo 1200 on Ebay just now. Do you know if the parts in that 1200 unit can be transplanted in the 1200HD? Thanks!

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on November 09, 2005, 02:43 AM:

Isn't this broken part the same that Tom Photiou had remanufactured recently?

I say Tom, oh Tom...

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on November 09, 2005, 11:33 AM:

ello,
just read all that, if the bronze bush is broke i have to say for me thats a first time ive seen that happen. [Eek!]

I'll e-mail you with the exploded view of the 24 and 18FPS clucth, it makes it easier to explain. The bronze bush is integral to the part which the shaft of the 24FPS roller fits into. If it was dismantled i'm sure a precision engineer could re-bush it but it depends on how much damages has been done. I suspect who ever tried to remove the actual roller wheel was a bit heavy handed and caused the damage. Bere with me while i put together a write up and a diagram. Will i be able to e-mail it to you?

Posted by Norman Fisher (Member # 481) on November 09, 2005, 08:44 PM:

Hi Tom-- I must say I am very honored to be the first recipient of the ELMO Broken Bronze Bush award! [Wink]

Thanks so much for the reply! I just sent you an email. Looking forward to whatever you can send me.

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on November 09, 2005, 10:32 PM:

Now hold on a minute here, don't the rest of us get to see those diagrams and everything? [Big Grin]

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on November 10, 2005, 06:26 AM:

If you show me the exact part you need I might be able to help. I still have some parts for the 1200's which may include the bush you are talking of. The answer may be one of the complete assay's that Tom has.
I have to say that I have never heard of a brass bush breaking before and what a load of tosh to be told they will eventually.

Kev.

Posted by Norman Fisher (Member # 481) on November 10, 2005, 07:44 AM:

Hi Kevin,

"Tosh" is a mild word for what I have been given by 3 different camera tech's over the last 2 months in trying to repair my Elmo. A simple problem of just the belts wearing out has turned into a nightmare! Unfortunately, I don't have the projector at the moment. It's still in the lecherous hands of the repair person that broke the bush attempting to remove it. I will contact him today to see if he can somehow snap a picture of it so I can send it to you. Can I just send it over to you via email? Thanks a million! [Smile]

PS> Yes it's true, his exact words to me were these parts will wear out over time and use. Although in the same sentence he also said he has never seen a broken one before either!

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on November 10, 2005, 04:46 PM:

For those interested this is the part that Norman was talking about. Lucky for him I still have four of these by me.

Norman, have sent you an email [Smile]

Kev.

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on November 10, 2005, 09:27 PM:

A happy end is near - I hope [Smile]

Posted by Norman Fisher (Member # 481) on November 10, 2005, 10:24 PM:

Thanks to everyone on this wonderful board for their help and advice. Especially Kevin for supplying the much needed part. And to Tom for working on the diagram for me. [Smile]

After being dormant for nearly 15 years, another Elmo ST1200HD will be up and running again! I will keep you all posted.

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