8mm Forum: Leasing Films

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Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on November 09, 2005, 10:07 PM:

Anybody remember the leasing deal with the Chaplin feature films like 'Modern Times' and 'the Great Dictator'? I remember seeing this being offered in the Blackhawk catalogues back in the 1980's. The deal was that you paid up front for the full price of the film, which gave you the right to own the film for about 7 years, after which you promised to return the film. You had to sign a formal lease agreement. Strange but true. Anybody else remeber this, and I wonder if anybody actually sent the films back when the lease expired! Somehow I doubt it!

Posted by Trevor Adams (Member # 42) on November 10, 2005, 03:56 AM:

I remember it well! I was a longtime customer of BH -still couldn't get them to send me leasehold films Paul!Members can read about this arrangement in Gerald McKee's book,Film Collecting. [Smile]

Posted by Dimitrios Kremalis (Member # 272) on November 10, 2005, 04:43 AM:

Trevor,
Can you check your pm please?
You've got a message [Wink]

Posted by Andreas Eggeling (Member # 105) on November 10, 2005, 05:54 AM:

I read in an old german ATLAS-Catalogue (1979), that
- Modern Times
- Goldrush
- The Great Dictator
and City Lights
were offered for leasing.
Ending 31. August 1986

But in 1980 Piccolo Film offered these complete features without
leasing agreement.

Andreas

Posted by Kurt Gardner (Member # 440) on November 10, 2005, 08:58 AM:

Yes, I remember it was due to an arrangement with Chaplin's estate. He kept a tight grip on all of his work throughout his life, and even afterwards his heirs maintained control. That's why that had that bizarre "lease" rather than an outright purchase.

Posted by Trevor Adams (Member # 42) on November 10, 2005, 02:12 PM:

Nothing there Dimitri! regards,Trev

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on November 10, 2005, 04:36 PM:

From a 1977 Blackhawk catalog:

Doug

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on November 10, 2005, 11:01 PM:

What I'm wondering is if anyone ever got a summons from RBC to actually send back their prints. I sincerely doubt it. If they had and leasees did NOT send back their goods, the cost in litigation to attempt to seize all the prints out there would have sunk them financially.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on November 10, 2005, 11:17 PM:

Here's a closer look at the agreement. This lease was good till 8/91. At that point you either had to return the print or present a notarized certificate that you've destroyed(!) the film.

Doug

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 11, 2005, 12:28 AM:

Silly game in the US...

But can we now SUE the Company (rbc) since we are WILLING to return the films but they are no longer there??! [Big Grin]

cheers,

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on November 11, 2005, 08:47 AM:

I think it is interesting that you never see these Chaplin titles on any used film lists or ebay. I wonder what happened to them all. Are collectors still hoarding them or were they all in fact returned to Blackhawk at the end of the lease period? I kind of doubt the latter, unless Blackhawk threatened legal action to get them back. As for destroying the films in front of a notary public, that is the funniest thing I have heard this week! [Big Grin]

Almost like a Bob Newhart routine-" Good Morning Are you a certified Notary Public. Good. Well I wonder If I could come down to your office and set fire to some movies............."

Posted by Dimitrios Kremalis (Member # 272) on November 11, 2005, 10:44 AM:

Paul,
Take a look at Paul Foster's site. He's got Gold Rush for sale, in case you are interested.

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on November 11, 2005, 07:25 PM:

Question is, is Paul Foster's copy the 1925 version or the 1942 one... I know the 1925 version (with piano soundtrack) sold twice on eBay, and I was the winner on one of the two auctions. Yet the print listed on the lease form is the 1942 version... [Confused]

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on September 15, 2006, 10:49 PM:

Doug,

I recall going into
Willoughby/Peerless Camera
store in Manhattan, and viewing
all of those rare RBC Chaplin
products.

By the time that the lease
agreement was due, the
company was out of business
for many years.
I am sure that not one
print was ever returned.

Dimitrios, I own City Lights
and the quality is comparible
to what is viewed. Keep in mind that
it is always more enjoyable as
a motion picture, then as a
frame grab.

Otherwise, the 16mm RBC rental library
prints were similar.

I recall renting Modern Times
from an exclusive RBC rental catalog
around 1977. The timing/(grading)
on the Derann 8mm prints manufactured
today - surpass the lab work supervised
under Chaplins estate during the '70's.

After Chaplin had garnered
his honorary Oscar, these features
were later released during the '70's
in 35mm in the USA.

Michael

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on September 16, 2006, 01:56 PM:

I'm burning my prints right now as we speak......

.....Oops- Got to run, fire spreading to Derann prints....

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on September 17, 2006, 08:24 PM:

Did anyone on this forum actually return or destroy one of these prints?

Notice how I am not asking the reverse of this question; don't want anyone to get into trouble!

David

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