8mm Forum: EUMIG SUPROGON 1.1 lens

This is topic EUMIG SUPROGON 1.1 lens in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001606

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on November 28, 2005, 07:55 PM:

I've seen one of these on offer and I was thinking of getting one for my Eumig 824. However, a photo on the dealer's site makes it look like the focus mechanism of the barrel might be incompatible with the 800 series, like the 1.0 lens mentioned recently.
BUT a 810D Lux recently offered on eBay was supplied with this lens fitted (it's even mentioned on the box label). So, could anyone tell me if this particular 810 had a different type of lens holder to accommodate the 1.1 lens, or could there possibly have been different versions of the lens for different projectors?

[ November 29, 2005, 04:45 AM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on December 01, 2005, 05:28 PM:

Hello Adrian
If the lens is pictured with the projector a good way to determine if it is a screw thread or focus-mechanism type is to look at the projector itself - a Eumig with no focusing knob will house a screw thread type lens, and a Eumig with a focusing knob will house one of the lenses suitable for the 824. Over many years I have never seen anything faster than the F1.2 lens supplied with the 824, all the other F1.0 and F1.1 Eumig lenses have been screw barrel types. I rate the F1.2 highly although I can understand your quest to get the best lens possible to fit. Perhaps removing the focus assembly from the 824 and somehow fitting a pip or leaf spring inside the lens mount would enable the screw thread F1.1 or F1.0 to fit snugly and hold focus?
Kevin.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 01, 2005, 07:54 PM:

For my Eumigs I use a Kodak Ektar 20mm f1.0 fixed focal length (non-zoom) lens which I had turned down slightly to the dimension of the Eumig lens diameter. The improvement in sharpness, brightness, and contrast is just amazing, better than the Elmo f1.0 zoom lens, and showing once again that even the best zoom lenses cannot match a top quality fixed focus lens.

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on December 01, 2005, 10:45 PM:

[Eek!]

Paul, now I'm intrigued.

Apologies in advance for steering yet another thread on an off-topic course [Wink]

but... what's the availability on those fixed lenses, in particular for Elmo projectors? Were any ever made? Is anyone else using any non-zoom lenses on their super-8 equipment?

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on December 02, 2005, 11:53 AM:

Kevin,
Thanks for the information - I hadn't noticed that the 810 with the 1.1 lens did not have a focus knob. I'm surprised that Eumig did not prodice a version of their 1.1 and 1.0 lenses that worked with the focus mechanism of their 800 series projectors.
Having said that, though, I think the quality of the focus mechanism - certainly in comparison to Elmos - is a weakness of Eumigs, so maybe it's more efficient to focus 'manually', especially when using a faster lens.
As for my 824, I'll probably stick with the 1.2 lens - as I was perfectly happy with it until I heard about the 1.1 and 1.0!

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 02, 2005, 01:15 PM:

Hi Jan,
I got my fixed focus Kodak Ektar f1.0 lens off an old Kodak super 8 sound projector. This was Kodak's first super 8 sound projector (maybe an M100 or something like that) and it was based on their 16mm Pageant projector with robust all metal construction. It was a very nice professional quality machine with 2000ft spool capacity and built to the same kind of quality as the Elmo GS1200 and NOT to be confused with Kodaks later cheap plastic S8 projectors (Moviedecks, Ektasounds etc). But the sound was not up to Eumig and Elmo standards so I got rid of it, but I kept the superb lens. I have never seen a better lens anywhere than this one, and that includes the Elmo f1.0 zoom lens! It litearlly transforms the picture quality on my Eumigs, razor sharp corner to corner, and greatly enhanced contrast and screen brightness. These old Kodak machines are very very rare. I saw one a while ago on Phil Johnson's web site and he was asking $995.0 for it! Phil also mentioned that he had never seen a lens this good. Keep an eye open on ebay, one may eventually pop up, but make sure it has the Ektar f1.0 fixed focus lens. This lens has a very short back focal length so it almost sits on top of the film! This is no problem with the Eumig projectors where you can push the lens in very close to the film, but it is a problem on the Elmo GS1200 where you cannot get this lens pushed back far enough. I want to use this lens on my GS1200 since I am sure it will totally outperform the Elmo F1.0 zoom lens. To do this, I will have to modify the lens housing of the Elmo, something I am persuing.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 26, 2005, 04:52 PM:

Well an old Kodak M100 has finally popped up on Ebay!

http://cgi.ebay.com/KODAK-M100-INSTAMATIC-SOUND-PROJECTOR_W0QQitemZ7574460696QQcategoryZ15253QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This is the great Kodak all metal machine, based on the 16mm Pageant design, which has 2000 ft spool capacity, and that superb f1.0 fixed focal length Ektar lens I was talking about. This machine is built like a tank, and runs extremely smoothly and quiet. But the elctronics are a hybrid design, part solid transistorised and part valve output. The machine that I had many years ago threw the best super 8 picture I have ever seen, rock steady and sharp as a tack due to that superb f1.0 lens. But the sound quality was not up to the standard of the Eumigs and Elmos, pretty poor as a matter of fact. But that fixed focal length f1.0 lens is something else!

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on December 26, 2005, 08:26 PM:

That's actually the second one I've seen within a few weeks on eBay. The first one was poorly titled/described so you had to take a close look to realize what it actually was... which quite a few people seem to have done, as it eventually sold for close to $200.

I'm intrigued that Kodak chose to give this projector a 2000ft reel capacity... first time I hear of any projector like that other than the Fumeo and Beaulieu machines. And of course the f1.0 lens - was this Kodak's high-end offering at the time, by any chance?

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 27, 2005, 11:14 AM:

Hi Jan,
Yes the Kodak M100 was certainly Kodak's top of the line super 8 projector, they never made a better one than this. Its like the GS1200 in build quality, weighs about 40 lbs, that tell's you a lot. This projector was produced when super 8 was first launched, and Kodak obviously wanted to make a great impression and display super 8 at its very best, and this projector succeeded in doing that. Besides its superb f1.0 fixed focal length lens it had a few other great features, such as auto-threading, very large top and bottom sprockets, the 2000ft spool capacity, Halogen lighting with a high and low brightness lamp setting, and a rotary switch which removed pressure from the sound heads during the running of silent films, thus saving a lot of head wear. It was invisioned that super 8 would be a semi professional format and this projector was almost identical to its equivalent 16mm model. Unfortunately, Kodak later reverted to cheap plastic projector which did no justice to S8 at all, and it was left to the European and Japanese designers to produce the top quality equipment.The M100 is a reminder that Kodak could produce great equipment when they wanted to, but like Bell & Howell, they abandoned their tradition of producing the very best equipment and decided to down market Super 8 to the K-Mart crowd.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 28, 2005, 04:55 PM:

Well it sold for $71.25. Whoever bought it may or may not have a good projector, but they certainly have a great lens!

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on December 29, 2005, 08:04 AM:

Sounds like a great deal to me. If I had won the thing (I didn't bother to bid on it, though) I'd have gone for restoring the projector to full functionality as needed, and perhaps wired the soundheads to an external amplifier for playback only. [Smile]

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2