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Author Topic: New Super 8 64T Results
Simon McConway
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1085
From: Doncaster, UK
Registered: Jun 2004

- posted February 23, 2006 12:53 PM      Profile for Simon McConway     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, after over 4 months, The Widescreen Centre have returned the film. They expect future films not to take as long, they say! This was, in fact, the processing companies first attempt at the processing.

Anyway, I tested the film with a Canon 814E & 310XL. Both exposed the film fine, but with the 814E doing the best job. At this point, I thought that the film was far too grainy, especially inside shots. My final shots were taken with a Bell & Howell 2146 & Canon 1014. Strangely, these cameras lessened the grain to a perfectly acceptable level. The Canon 1014E gave the best results, as you would expect. I adjusted the 1014 (via the rotary control) to give roughly +1 stop more exposure. These results were spot on perfect with the previous to adjusting results still being very good.

To sum up, not one camera over or under-exposed the film. The Canon 1014 was best. Inside shots are more grainy, but where cameras are adjustable, I believe that this is curable. Picture steadiness was exact; no jitter as I've heard about previously.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted February 23, 2006 09:02 PM      Profile for Steve Klare     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting,

Did you use the internal filter for daylight footage? If so how was the color?

By overexposing a stop for best results, does this mean 64T might actually work well in cameras that expose it at 40ASA?

Haven't tried 64T yet. (still have 11 K-40s left!)

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

- posted March 07, 2006 11:45 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm a bit confused - to my understanding, the 64T film is more sensitive to light than Kodachrome 40 so when using it in a camera that's non-64T-aware, you'd want to underexpose it by about one stop, not overexpose it. Am I mistaken? Did my train of thought derail somewhere? [Confused]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 08, 2006 12:25 PM      Profile for Steve Klare     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In my experience, as you move towards underexposure the grain tends to get more noticeable, so it seems to me if you can get away with a little overexposure the grain should get smaller.

Simon? Siiiiimon???? Please enlighten us!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 08, 2006 03:58 PM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does anyone know if the new 64t cartridges are notched to 64? Might seem like a silly question but I know that my Elmo 110 is set up to recognise the 64 notch but with all this talk of under and over exposure I was wondering if the cartridges were still notched as though they were carrying K40? [Confused]

Mike

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Hans Ledel
Junior
Posts: 29
From: Stockholm Sweden
Registered: Dec 2005

- posted March 08, 2006 04:40 PM      Profile for Hans Ledel   Email Hans Ledel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is notched to 64t

I also have the Elmo 110 it is a superb camera.

I just have to shoot my last 10 K40 before i try the 64t
In super8today they suggest you overexpose the film with 1/2 stop to get best picture

Cheers

Hans

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 08, 2006 07:55 PM      Profile for Steve Klare     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK,

So a full stop overexposure would correspond to a camera setting of 32 ASA with processing for 64 ASA, what camera setting would 1/2 a stop over be?

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Hans Ledel
Junior
Posts: 29
From: Stockholm Sweden
Registered: Dec 2005

- posted March 09, 2006 03:37 AM      Profile for Hans Ledel   Email Hans Ledel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I donīt really know that.

This is how i will handle it in the future
Let the camera detect it as 64t
Get a reading from the internal meter and then open the aperture 1/2 a stop.

You will of course need a camera like the Elmo 110 that has a manual exposure button.

Cheers

Hans

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 09, 2006 10:31 AM      Profile for Steve Klare     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My angle on this is as follows:

Simon got the best results at 1 stop overexposure.
Super-8 Today recommends 1/2 stop overexposure.

If you put 64T in a 40/160 only camera and it exposed it as 40T, this would be 2/3 stops overexposure, which is close to splitting the difference. This could be very good news for all the folks who have these cameras (including me!)

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Hans Ledel
Junior
Posts: 29
From: Stockholm Sweden
Registered: Dec 2005

- posted March 09, 2006 11:40 AM      Profile for Hans Ledel   Email Hans Ledel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That is true

However there are some cameras that will for some reason read it as 160 like the canon 514 XL-S

On Kodakīs site they have listed some models and how to use the cameras with the 64t

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 09, 2006 12:03 PM      Profile for Steve Klare     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A couple of months ago I decided to expose Plus-X (the new 100 ASA one) in a 40/160 ASA camera. I figured I'd expose it at 50ASA (really 40) and have it pulled a stop in processing to keep the grain in check, hoping to get the look of the old stock.

The problem I ran into is that the camera's sensing switch wasn't depressed by the new 100 ASA slot, so it would be exposed as 160. The solution was to round up some kind of material and whittle a plug to fill in the cartridge's ASA slot and fool the camera into going to 40ASA. I used Lexan because my company has a bin of Lexan scrap, but styrene, nylon, aluminum or many other things would work depending on the tools and skills available. (...and I don't claim to have an abundance of either! I used a modeling saw and a Swiss Army knife.)

If I tried 64T and the camera defaulted to 160ASA, I'd do the exact same thing.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 09, 2006 12:04 PM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Hans

Thanks for the advice about the notching on the 64T, when I get back to the UK I shall buy a couple of carts from WidesScreen and run them through the 110.

The Elmo 110 is a great camera isn't it? I didn't bring mine with me when I set off travelling because it is heavy and I treasure it too much to risk it getting thrown around in airports and on buses etc. I brought my trusty Sankyo EM60XL instead which has been great but unfortunately I've now run out of film [Frown] , so it's still pictures from now on...

I also have the Elmo 110R which I can use in conjunction with the Elmo cassette recorder to do lip synch movies, it works really well and it's is incredibly satisfying to watch a lip synched movie on super 8 using 30 year old technology!

My only concern though is that I read somwhere that the new 64T stock doesn't accept sound stripe, does any one know if that is the case?

Mike

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Hans Ledel
Junior
Posts: 29
From: Stockholm Sweden
Registered: Dec 2005

- posted March 09, 2006 01:13 PM      Profile for Hans Ledel   Email Hans Ledel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Mike

Yes it is a super camera!!!

It realy feels solid.

I recently bought the 106 aswell and it has the same body but a smaller lens and are not so heavy.
I havenīt tested it yet but I will soon.

Cheers

Hans

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

- posted March 09, 2006 11:21 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
If you put 64T in a 40/160 only camera and it exposed it as 40T, this would be 2/3 stops overexposure, which is close to splitting the difference. This could be very good news for all the folks who have these cameras (including me!)
Sounds good... so, seeing as that my Eumig mini 5 camera offers controls to overexpose the film by one full stop (backlight compensation), I should get near-perfect results with 64T film as long as I keep that overexposure turned on throughout the whole film... is that about correct?

No, wait... I want underexposure, don't I.... Goshdarnit, this is confusing me.

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 10, 2006 05:41 PM      Profile for Steve Klare     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well,

That depends on whether or not your camera recognises 64ASA notching.

If it does, you would dial in a half to a full stop of overexposure.

If it only recognizes 40 or 160 ASA and you can deceive it that it's loaded with 40, it should be OK as is. (-because the iris will be open wider than it would normally be for 64T film, because the camera thinks it's exposing a slower stock, therefore it will be overexposed by normal factory specs.)

This is why I'm stocked up on K-40: I'll let other people road test all these theories! I just hope I have a few good ideas for films before they stop processing it!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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