8mm Forum: Son Of Frankenstein

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Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on March 24, 2006, 05:41 PM:

According to the "Castle" book there are two different versions of the Castle 200'er. I screened the two copies I own. One is from the mid 70's in silent and the other is a sound version from the late 70's and I can't tell the difference.

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on March 25, 2006, 11:50 AM:

Maybe he simply had two sons, one of which is mute. [Cool]

Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on March 25, 2006, 02:05 PM:

It's my understanding that the first 200' version of SON OF FRANKENSTEIN was issued around 1965, with the second version being issued in the mid-1970s. Maybe you have the silent and sound version of the 1970s version.

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on March 27, 2006, 07:51 AM:

I have two copies of Son of Frankenstein......there were two editions of the "complete" edition...and there are some differences. In his book , CASTLE FILMS, Scott MacGillivray reports that "Castle issued two versions of Son of Frankenstein. The first edition , issued in 1965, concentrated on the talky laboratory scenes with Basil Rathbone, so the monster is motionless on the table for much of the time. In the mid 1970's , Castle recut the feature to include more action footage of Boris Karloff and Bela Lugosi."

My regular 8 sound version is the latter version and my 16mm copy is the former. I had the 8mm since 1965 and when I got the 16mm copy a couple of years ago,it did strike me that there were differences, but I thought my memory of the 8mm version was faulty, but sure enough there ARE two different versions.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on January 01, 2008, 01:27 PM:

So, back to my original question.... What exactly are the differences. I'd like to know what scenes differ from the 2 200' versions.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on January 23, 2009, 02:46 PM:

Anybody still know what the significant differences are between the 2 versions?

[ January 24, 2009, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: Brad Kimball ]

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on January 23, 2009, 10:31 PM:

Brad,

The most notable difference is in the "reviving the monster" scene, but there are subtle changes throughout.
The original version starts with the Castle titles over a light background. We then fade in to a locked door with "Verboten" posted on it. The camera cranes up to reveal the the Frankenstein name above the door.
In the revised version, Castle superimposed the titles over this door sequence.
Both versions then cut to a portrait of Henry Frankenstein, with Baron Wolf von Frankenstein (Basil Rathbone) and the butler drinking a toast. Ygor (Bela Lugosi) is seen looking in through the window.
Both versions then fade to breakfast the next morning. The original edit has little Peter von Frankenstein telling his parents he's going hunting for all sorts of wild animals. Elsa von Frankenstein asks her husband what that weird structure they see out the window is. He replies that it's his father's laboratory and he can't wait to see it. The revised edit eliminates Peter talking about hunting. It starts with Peter leaving breakfast and Elsa asking about the lab.
Both versions dissolve to Wolf walking up the hill to the lab. He goes in and sees the boiling sulfur pit. In the newer edit, we see that Ygor is watching from above. Both then cut to Wolf walking into a chamber where he is shocked to discover the Monster (Boris Karloff) lying on a slab. Ygor is also there. Ygor says Wolf and the Monster both had Heinrich Frankenstein as a father, but the Monster's mother was lightning. Wolf tells Ygor he's going to try to revive the monster and they need to get him upstairs.
The versions differ greatly here. The original includes a scene of lifting the monster (tied to a table) from downstairs by using a winch. Wolf and Ygor then recline the Monster to hook up the equipment. Cut to the machines running, sparks flying & Ygor getting an electric shock when he grabs the Monster's hand. This scene ends with Wolf saying he can't get the Monster out of his coma. The revised version leaves out the winch scene. It cuts straight to the machines running, Ygor gets his shock and then we dissolve to the Monster standing up, restored to life. Wolf tells Ygor that no one must know. The Monster sees his reflection in a mirror, but Ygor turns the mirror around. Wolf says that the Monster isn't "well in the brain". Ygor says he'll keep him in the lab.
In the new version, Police Inspector Krogh (Lionel Atwill) arrives at the house for a visit. We then are back at the lab where the monster is angry, climbs down a ladder and goes through a hidden passage that connects to young Peter's bedroom. He goes to pick up the boy, but the nanny comes in so the Monster chokes her. We then see Peter walking with the Monster to the lab.
Back to the original: we left off with Wolf failing to revive the Monster. It then cuts to the nanny sitting outside Peter's bedroom. She goes in, sees the Monster and gets choked.
Both versions: Wolf is playing a game of darts with the Inspector. Elsa finds the nanny and runs downstairs screaming.
Wolf races to the lab. In the new version, we see Krogh go upstairs to Peter's bedroom. He seems to know about the hidden passage.
Both versions: The Monster and Peter walk to the ladder near the sulfur pit. It looks like the Monster might throw the boy into the boiling pit, but instead helps him up the ladder.
Wolf and Elsa can't get through the lab door from the outside. Wolf climbs up and goes through a higher window.
Peter finishes climbing the ladder and kindly offers a helping hand to Frankenstein's Monster.
New version: The inspector climbs up the ladder.
Both versions: The Monster suddenly has Inspector Krogh's wooden arm and he's using it as a club (I guess Castle felt strongly about not showing the Monster ripping the arm off. They chose not to include it in either edit.). Krogh is firing his pistol at the Monster. Wolf grabs a chain from the upper level and swings down into the Monster, knocking him into the pit. Krogh opens the lab door so the happy family reunion can take place. End titles.

The recut helps to make better sense of things. Cutting from the Doctor saying he can't revive his father's creation to the Monster in the boy's bedroom is pretty jarring. Here we get to see the Monster brought back to life. This really shows that Castle Films cared about their product enough to offer a better cutdown than what was previously released. The leader actually reads "Recut New Vers 6/16/71".

Doug

Posted by Paul Spinks (Member # 573) on January 24, 2009, 07:28 AM:

Wow Doug, thanks for describing both versions so well. The most obvious scene that could be spliced from the earlier edit to the later one would be the winching scene and then you would have a slightly longer digest,but would it be worth it when you consider the damage to the prints. The later edit is definitely the better one. I wonder if there are many super 8 sound editions of the original edit out there?

Paul.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on January 24, 2009, 09:05 AM:

Thank you soooooo much. I agree it sounds like the newer version is the way to go. Cool that you even have the recut date on the leader. Thanks again for the blow-by-blow description. Is this all from memory or did you use an editor/viewer to decifer the differences?

Posted by Marshall Crist (Member # 1312) on January 24, 2009, 12:20 PM:

I wonder if the Uni 8 400' reel shows the Inspector's arm getting ripped off. I'm pretty sure it doesn not include the backstory that would put it in context.

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on January 24, 2009, 03:16 PM:

Doug, can you (or anyone) post a shot of the these CASTLE Super 8 Sound-Color box covers; Not the generic ones - LONDON LANDMARKS, LAND OF THE SHAMROCK, THE SURF RIDERS and SAN JUAN CITY OF CONTRAST - I'd pay to have copy/scans of these, or better still the boxes themselves (with or without the prints) - That's Shorty

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on January 24, 2009, 04:23 PM:

You're welcome!
Brad, I watched them both last night and took notes.
Paul, it's probably not worth it to edit the two together. I thought about it, but then we're still left with a bad edit from Wolf saying he can't wake the Monster to a shot of the Monster standing tall.
Marshall, that's one of the few U-8 horrors that I don't have. Andy Wilson wrote a review but he doesn't mention that scene. Can you let us know Andy?
Joe, sorry but I don't have any of those titles.

Doug

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on June 13, 2009, 11:03 AM:

I finally got the 400' version. To answer Marshall's question, the shot of Inspector Krogh's arm being torn off by the monster is included, but the backstory isn't. We have no idea that this is the second time this has happened to poor Krogh.

Doug

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