8mm Forum: Optical Print vs Contact Print

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Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on June 06, 2006, 11:59 PM:

Hi all,

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but it came across to my mind when I was reading the Posedeion's article on General Yak (or click here )

Andreas mentioned about Optical and Contact prints. What sort of animal is this?

Can someone explain to me what is the different between the two?

Are those Derann prints today Contact or Optical?

thanks,

Posted by Andreas Eggeling (Member # 105) on June 07, 2006, 08:21 AM:

Winbert,

Near all 35mm theatrical prints are contact prints.

8mm optical prints are made from 16mm negative over prism who splits the light on a 2x8mm or 4x8mm film. After processing the films will be striped and after this way, they will be splitted.

For 8mm contact prints negatives will be made like above. Instead of 16mm negative a 16mm positive is used and the processed 4x8mm film will be not splitted, it will be used as a negative. The unprocessed prints are exposed during contact with the negative.

4x8mm negative contacts 4x8mm
or
2x8mm negative contacts 2x8mm

How to find out contact prints?
The emolusion side of contacts prints are often on the striped side.

But I found out that this is not important and that the emolusion side couldt be on every side of the film.
I was surprised at strange indications. Half letters.
When I had some new printed 50 ft films of "Monstro der Wal", I made a discovery.

The indications resulted in a cross. And suddenly even the word "STOP" stood there.

So these prints were also contact prints from a 4x8mm negative.
My Posseidon seems to be made from a 2x8mm negative.

cheers
Andreas

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on June 07, 2006, 03:32 PM:

quote:
How to find out contact prints?
The emolusion side of contacts prints are often on the striped side.

Actually this is rarely the case. The printing negative can be prepared so that the final print is in the "standard" position with the stripe on the support/cell/base side of the film. We normally refer to the position of the emulsion on the print as either "A" wind or "B" wind. A camera original is "B" wind in that the emulsion will face the projector lens with the cell facing the lamp. A contact print from that original will be reversed with the emulsion facing the lamp and the cell facing the lens.
This leads to problems with optical sound in both S8 and 16mm since the sound optics will either have to be refocused or "de focused" to play both types.
While both A and B wind 16mm optical sound prints exist, they do no in Super8. It's also much more difficult to stripe the emulsion since the stripe tends to flake off the emulsion side (even with special formulas for that purpose).

Since it's possible to prepare the printing negative as either A or B wind, it is common to make standard release prints from either contact or optical reduction.

Of course printers to make optical reduction prints (called continous optical reduction printers since they are not step printed but rather pulled past a slit) are quite expensive and require skill in use. Regular 16mm and 35mm contact printers could be modified with super 8 sprockets for contact work.

John

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on June 07, 2006, 08:53 PM:

So any from the above methods produce different results? Which one is better (I am concerned with color turning and VS)?

thanks,

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on June 08, 2006, 05:41 PM:

quote:
Which one is better (I am concerned with color turning and VS)?

Methods of print would have no effect on color turning and VS. That's related to rawstock and processing/storage conditions.

CORP produced prints should be sharper and have been contract since they are reduction printed from a larger negative and thus contain more information since print stocks are finer grain then negative stocks, the larger negative will also produce a finer grain print.

John

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on June 08, 2006, 09:18 PM:

quote:
8mm optical prints are made from 16mm negative over prism who splits the light on a 2x8mm or 4x8mm film. After processing the films will be striped and after this way, they will be splitted.

For 8mm contact prints negatives will be made like above. Instead of 16mm negative a 16mm positive is used

Does it mean Derann make optical print for they releases?

and on the other hand all "botleg" (mostly Italian prints)films are contact prints?

Can this also say that it is possible (with contact methods) to make a copy of my home movies (Kodachrome). Will it be expensive?

thanks,

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on June 09, 2006, 03:24 PM:

quote:
Can this also say that it is possible (with contact methods) to make a copy of my home movies (Kodachrome). Will it be expensive?

If you can find a lab that still has the reversal color print stock and can process it, then yes you could get a copy of your Kodachrome Super8 film. The contrast will be higher and any exposure problem will be accented. I have no idea of cost, but half the stock would be wasted since it'll be 16mm double super8 and half will be wasted in making a single copy from a single strand original. It will also be an "A" print so you would have trouble applying a stripe. (At one time Leo Diner in San Franciso milled out the emulsion on print stock and striped it so it was on the proper side for reading and recording on an A wind print.)

I don't know what Lab Derann is using, but I'd guess they are making reduction prints since it's much easier to use an existing 16mm negative for small print runs. Most likely they're producing two up Super 8 prints on 16mm stock. Don't know if the 35mm quad stock is still available. I know Kodak doesn't supply it anymore.

Have no idea what the "Italian" prints are like.

John

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