8mm Forum: German Super 8 Dealers

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Posted by Chester Brooks (Member # 610) on June 09, 2006, 12:16 PM:

Hi All

I recently discovered that Spiderman had been released on super 8 and is imported via a company called Classic.

I checked him out vis Sam and Doug and whilst I would love to add Spiderman to my collection the price he is charging is a little too rich for me and he hasn’t exactly inspired me with his pillow talk so I will stick with Derann and see what they plan to release.

Out of curiousity I notice a lot of German collectors on this forum. Classic seem to import all his titles from Germany so do any of the German collectors know what the source is or can send me an personal email. I think it would be quite useful particularly for US collectors if we could buy from the 8mm source like Derann rather than pay a commission/finders fee.

It would also be useful for any German dealer to have an outlet here and with this thread maybe we can persuade them to release at least show themselves.

Chester

Posted by Dimitrios Kremalis (Member # 272) on June 09, 2006, 01:02 PM:

Chester, out of curiosity how much does Classic charge for Spiderman?

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 09, 2006, 03:08 PM:

I seem to remember my copy costing me about £325 GBP from Classic.

Correction....£425

Kev.

[ June 12, 2006, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: Kevin Faulkner ]

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 09, 2006, 03:10 PM:

Forgot to add that it is probably the best quality print I have in my collection. Like watching the finest grain, sharpest 16mm print and the colours are spot on all the way through the film. Shame it only has a mono sound track but at least it's a good one.

Kev.

Posted by Chester Brooks (Member # 610) on June 10, 2006, 03:18 AM:

Hi Dimitrios

I was quoted $950.00 which covered film, shipping and insurance.

I was also by Classic that Spiderman was an absolutely fabulous print and sound better than anything Derann produced. I did ask specifically about sound but was never given an answer.

Are German prints in stereo and he is re recording in mono in Emglish when he recives?

The James Bond films that Classic are selling World is not Enough Tommorrw never dies and From Russia with LOve are they Classic releases or German?

I may contact Steve Osbourne to see what qulaity is really like and get one that way.

Chester

Posted by Dimitrios Kremalis (Member # 272) on June 10, 2006, 06:23 AM:

Woooow, Chester that is more than 750 Euros or 515 GBP. Totally Insane... [Eek!]

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on June 10, 2006, 08:58 AM:

I could be mistaken but I think the German prints are CHC releases. From what I understand, Classic sends the negative masters to a German lab for printing and receives the super-8 positives back. I'm not sure whether CHC itself or the lab does the sound recording, though.

Posted by Chester Brooks (Member # 610) on June 10, 2006, 04:48 PM:

Hi Jan

Yes, I have read one of the mails from Classic again and he does say that he prints
Spiderman and James Bond films I quote his mail

“WE HAVE PRINTED MORE NEW RELEASES THAN dERANN FOR LAST 4 YEARS. WE NOW PRINT IN GERMANY AS ITS BETTER/CHEAPER FOR US”

So Am I right in assuming that the only German connection is the printing arrangement and that Classic has the negatives. Why does he have to redub in English
when they arrive.

I was sure that there was still some dealers in Germany still selling 8mm. My wife speaks German so I must get her to do a search on german 8mm sites.

Chester

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 10, 2006, 05:10 PM:

They are printed for Classic in Germany. I have heard that you can buy these in Germany with German soundtracks.

The German Lab I have been told does not have the facility to record soundtracks in Stereo. The only people with that facility are Derann.

The other titles you mentioned were again German prints and supplied to Classic mute. Classic were then getting the sound recorded over here in the UK in stereo by someone using Elmo GS1200's.
Hope that answers all your questions and hasnt put Phils nose out of joint.

I will say once again that the print quality on some of these release especially Spiderman is stunning.

I would not have bought Spiderman if £500 odd was the price. I certainly did not pay that for mine from Classic.

Kev.

[ June 12, 2006, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: Kevin Faulkner ]

Posted by Chester Brooks (Member # 610) on June 10, 2006, 05:29 PM:

Hi Kev

Doug has put me onto Steve Osborne so I will check Spiderman out with him. my price included airmail shipping and insurance.

I had enquired about the buying the James Bond movies at the same time but I havent got a reply back yet.

Has anyone seen any of these releases. What are they like

You reckon that there are still German dealers out there and as I thought Classic are importing. It does sound a mystery.

That would be cool as my eldest son works in Germany and if I could find a contact he could pick up films for me and get them shipped to me for free.

I would be interested in getting the films with German tracks.

Chester

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 10, 2006, 06:00 PM:

Send a PM to Andreas Eggeling as he may know some dealers in Germany.

Andreas, is a member of this forum so just do a search for his profile.

Kev.

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on June 10, 2006, 07:34 PM:

Perhaps one of you guys, along the way, could dig up a super-8 copy of Goldfinger for me while you're at it. (I'm desperate.) [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on June 11, 2006, 03:33 AM:

Chester

I bought a copy of The World is Not Enough from Classic at their stall at a BFCC several years ago. It cost me GBP340 + 60 to have a stereo track recorded on it (it was supplied mute). The print was great but despite two attempts at getting the sound recorded it never did sound that great and I ended up trading it back to Classic against other titles.

Funnily enough another forum member bought it from Classics lists a little later and then returned it due to the poor sound quality. I was never sure if it was the sound stripe or the actual recording that was at fault, had I bought it more recently I would have had a go at putting a sound track on it myself but I wasn't sufficiently confident in those days.

I'd like to know more about Classics releases, particularly to read revues by people who have actually bought them as I would certainly be in the market to buy more.

Mike [Cool]

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 11, 2006, 06:33 AM:

I remember it well [Wink]

Kev.

Posted by Chester Brooks (Member # 610) on June 11, 2006, 05:36 PM:

Hi All

I guess from from the last couple of posts that this Classic guy is not really doing his own releases and is really a sales representative for someone else. This would help explain why his prices vary so much. My own fault for coming across too keen to track down Spiderman.

Thanks for the tip Mike over soundtracks on James Bond movies.

Im sure glad Derann are here for us to issue genuine top grade material and put in all the hard work for the collector and provide very good customer service.

Kev I will check out that lead with German collector

Chester

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on June 12, 2006, 04:09 AM:

Whoa, hold your horses here everyone!!! I have to admit I haven't read every post on here thoroughly but I think Mr. Sheard at Classic is being done a bit of a disservice.

Classic issue their own material and should be congratulated for that by us collectors. Spider-Man was indeed their own release as are many of the features on their lists and the trailer, dayset and cartoon reels. Without Classic these titles would not have seen the light of day. However, Classic also market the German releases such as the recent 'Wyatt Earp' long trailer.

'Spider-Man' cost £399 when first released but it increased to £425 later. The print is very good and the sound, though mono, was also good (mine is now stereo of course, snort!!!).

Classic have their new releases printed at the German labs now who also apply the sound stripe and record the sound. It's an expensive business but my understanding is it was more cost effective to have their Super 8's done in Germany than here in Britain. Remember Derann do their own slitting, striping and recording in-house so thankfully for us absorb a lot of the cost that would generally be associated with producing new material.

A lot of the prints coming from Germany are very good and certainly rival those done over here. Like everything though some prints are better than others and the acetate stock used is certainly more grainy than the polyester Kodak stock used in Britain. Colour is more muted possibly because the stock is thicker (being acetate).

So please give Classic a fair crack of the whip. There have been some major releases since that company was established and for that they receive my gratitude. And the same to Derann while I'm at it.

Now Phil, about Spider-Man 2...

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on June 12, 2006, 04:56 AM:

Hey John, is it me or is striping on CHC's prints slightly better than the one on Derann's? (as in pasted stripe vs liquid stripe...)

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 12, 2006, 05:00 AM:

John, I agree with all that you are saying but disagree with some comments. First of all I dont think that all the Greman prints are muted in colour terms. Spiderman is really nice. Titanic is absolutely superb for colour and a stunning print all round.

I had heard of these titles being available in Germany (maybe under the counter)which is why I thought Phil was importing already available releases. Rumours again!

You are right it was £425 and not £325 but that was me not being able to recall the cost.

Shame Phil wont join up on this forum as I think his input would be valuable [Frown]

He could then put the record straight as to exactly what is what.

JMT, the stripe has been really good on these prints. Dont know who is doing the stripe but it great stuff and rerecords onto very well.

Kev.

Posted by Dimitrios Kremalis (Member # 272) on June 12, 2006, 05:10 AM:

Is Spiderman released by Classic on acetate stock?

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on June 12, 2006, 06:33 AM:

Yes, Spider-Man is on acetate. That's why the labs are able to apply laminate stripes to it. Just like paste stripe, the quality can vary and I had difficulty getting a good re-recording onto my own print. I haven't checked it thoroughly yet as I suspect it needs more work... but then I'm never satisfied.

Kevin, sorry, I should have ensured my comments about muted colours were a general thing and not the same for every release. As much as my own copy of 'Spider-Man' is very good/excellent the colours would be more vibrant on other print stocks. But I'm glad they're not as the film looks more realistic in its Super 8 colours. Just goes to show that colour can still be very good even if they are more muted on one film stock than another.

I've only ever seen a couple of reels from Titanic and I cannot remember what grade we gave the print quality for review. I am therefore not the best person to comment on this title so defer to your judgement on it. Perhaps the labs were using a different film stock when that title was done.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 12, 2006, 07:14 AM:

I think I have to back up what John has said. I have dealt with Phil at Classic for many years and it is without a doubt that if it wasn't for his hard work and enthusiam for super 8, we would not have available many of the wonderful releases we do today ("Spiderman" amongst them) and, it should be added, some releases that go back to even before Classic Home Cinema was set up [Wink]

.

I have loads of short extracts, trailers and cartoons from Classic and all are very, very good quality. If you have any doubts why not start by ordering a trailer or short from Phil, like the latest "King Kong" trailer for example. The print is pin sharp with nice colour and rock steady picture, plus not a trace of negative dust to be seen.

Whilst, of course, master material varies, all the prints I have from Classic, which have apparently been printed by a German lab, seem to uphold this standard, although I don't own any feature length prints (but I think the comments regarding Spiderman speak for themselves).

I know that many years ago Phil had the mute feature prints sent to a chap here in the UK who also advertised re-recording and the sound was added that way. I understand that the sound is now all done in Germany and whilst, as John points out, only mono, the quality on the prints I have is all very good indeed, with no drop-out or wow.

One last point and it is a minor one, but most of the trailers and shorts from Classic now come in a nice quality card box, often with a colour label and shrink wrap; just a nice little touch of quality which reminds me of the super 8 releases in the '80s, which, having met with Phil a few times is, I'm sure, what he intended.

Phil really is a film enthusiast at heart who, from what I have seen, has invested most heavily in every sense in both super 8 and 16mm.

Sometimes, I have been stunned by the financial risks Phil takes in keeping our great hobby alive; there is certainly no doubting his commitment in my experience of dealing with him.

Whilst Classic is by the nature of their business a competator with Derann in the super 8 market, I think that this is a very healthy situation indeed for our hobby.

Posted by Mark Norton (Member # 165) on June 12, 2006, 07:21 AM:

I remember seing a reel of Titanic at one of the conventions a few years back and it looked top notch allong with First Blood, another CHC release which was also shown.
Shame Titanic is so long, I recall asking about buying single reels from the film but this was not possible. The price for the full film is truly Titanic!
Has anybody seen any of the latest release You only live twice?

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on June 12, 2006, 09:02 AM:

In my experience, SOME of the colour CHC releases would benefit from brighter reds in particular and I'm sure that Phil has agreed when I've mentioned this to him. However, that doesn't mean that the prints in question are not impressive, and Phil certainly deserves the support of collectors. SOME Derann prints have a bit more contrast than you would ideally want, but they are still enjoyable to watch. With Super 8 today, if you get great colour, contrast, sharpness and sound all at the same time, that's an added bonus!
And of course CHC's b/w releases benefit from being on genuine b/w stock.

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on June 12, 2006, 12:43 PM:

Guys

I would just like to add to my previous comments by saying that I agree that Phil has done some great stuff for this hobby and taken some gambles, so along with Derann, he deserves all the support we can give him.

I have a number of his short releases; the Bond Extracts , Rupert and The Frog Song , Chubb Chubbs and many others and am very pleased with them all.

I returned my copy of The World is Not Enough due to problems with the sound but from what I understand, and have read here, Classics' feature releases are all now supplied with a sound track and whilst it is mono, it appears to be of good quality.

So again, we should give the man all the support we can.

But like Kev says, it would be great if we could get him to post...

Mike

Posted by Chester Brooks (Member # 610) on June 12, 2006, 02:01 PM:

Hi All

Interesting posts in regard to Classic releases. I had no dealings with them until I emailed about Spiderman so they were unknown to me.

I can only say that whoever emailed in response I dont know their name as they didnt have the courtesy of adding it to any emails did not impress me.

After giving the price and shipping charge any questions that I asked about releases were dealt with in a very abrupt manner to the point were I didnt feel happy to order a film from a person to be honest I didnt trust.

I dont know what the setup in Classic is but if it is similar to Derann I think their boss needs to sharpen up his staff's attitude to paying customers.

Somebody mentioned taht they had a copy of Spiderman would it be possible to post some screen shots on the forum.

I have followed up a German contact that looks like it may be successful so I hope to obtain the film from them.

Chester

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on June 13, 2006, 04:04 AM:

I don't think screen shots are going to give an accurate representation of the print quality Chester. I reviewed Spider-Man for 'Super 8 Film Review' and it received an A/A* rating (i.e. very good/excellent) if memory serves me correctly. Not many get such a high rating and this is due to the sharpness of the print, the contrast and the lack of crushing in blacks.

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on June 13, 2006, 04:34 AM:

Chester: communicating with Classic is quite an adventure. All of us, here on the forum who purchase from Phil know that, and we're (kinda) used to it. Agreed, this doesn't sound like top-notch service but their products are worth checking.
My recent purchase from CHC are the trailer to the 2005 King Kong (in scope), Pixar's Knick-Knack, and John Woo's The Hostage. All prints are really good.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 13, 2006, 05:19 AM:

JMT, have you done a rerecord on Knick Knack yet? Its well worth it and the Stipe quality is very good.

John your comments on Spiderman are spot on it's the gradation thats superb. You could almost believe that it was form an original neg and not a neg from a release print. For me the colour was as I expected it to be. I didnt think it was muted and yes the sharpness is stunning.
You are right I dont think taking images off the screen will do it justice.

Kev.

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on June 13, 2006, 05:34 AM:

Kev: nope as I have the 16mm print now. But glad I could help with your recording. [Wink]

I've redone the Kong trailer and The Hostage and they now sound incredible. Hence my previous remark, earlier on this thread, about CHC's excellent striping.

Posted by Chester Brooks (Member # 610) on June 13, 2006, 02:36 PM:

Hi Jean Marc

You say dealing with Classic is an adventure. You are not kidding. I was hoping he would give me a bit of discount if I went for 4 features but he says no way. I am undecided as quite a few of you mention the need to re record his films

His email style is strange to say the least. Is this typical or is he having a blonde day!!!

[Confused]

quote:
Sorry Chester but I have removed the text you had originally posted here as I think the comments could have proved offensive. I dont think it's a good idea to post the detials of private emails here. Thanks,Kev.

Mike mentioned some samaller shorts so I may try them out.

Chester

[ June 14, 2006, 04:08 AM: Message edited by: Kevin Faulkner ]

Posted by Mark Norton (Member # 165) on June 14, 2006, 09:54 AM:

Jean Marc,

Where did you find the sorce material to re-record King Kong and The Hostage? I'm also looking to re-record You Only Live Twice trailer. Nice having good quality striping to record on to.

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on June 14, 2006, 01:00 PM:

The teaser to Kong was available to download from the Quicktime trailer website when the release date for the film was announced officially a year ago. Perfect sync in 24fps.

I have a limited release of the BMW DVD with all chapters including "Hostage". It was a bit harder as it's NTSC, so I had to slow down the GS a few times but did so during sequences of tires screeching on the asphalt to limit the wows.

Posted by Mark Norton (Member # 165) on June 15, 2006, 04:23 AM:

Thanks Jean Marc, BMW DVD is on it's way via Ebay, Looking forward to re-recording.

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on June 15, 2006, 04:59 AM:

Mark: Well done [Wink]

[ June 18, 2006, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: Jean-Marc Toussaint ]

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