8mm Forum: ELMO GS1200 STEREO/user views.

This is topic ELMO GS1200 STEREO/user views. in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on August 19, 2006, 08:15 AM:

Hello fellow members,i thought i'd give my views on this super8mm
monster.Anyway here it goes.
This machine is built to last.The consruction is excellent.
IT comes with a 800ft take up spool,but at the flick of a lever
can go up to 1600ft-more on that later.
The lens is a beauifully made ELMO 15-25MM ZOOM lens that swings out for very easy gate cleaning..I think Elmo were one of the first to do this.
As i've said this machine weighs in at a back breaking 31lb,that
is 14kg.It stands firmly on three feet,one at the front having a senible screw for tilt adjustment.
FILM PATH.the machine uses the two sprocket film path,one with 18
tooth sprocket to pull the film in from the feed reel and feed it via the top loop to the excellent desgin gate.the second sprocket
is 24 type that pulls the film very smoothly through the soundhead.Although it says 1200,this machine can take 1600ft spools,that's the spools with the smaller core;than the stranded
1200ft spools.
RUNNING THE GS1200 STEREO.The opeartion of this machine was new
for it's time.It's controlled by light action press-button or keys and those operate into a soild-state logic circuit.Therefore
using this machine is easy and a real joy.
But the icing on the cake for this machine is something i haven't tired yet.Its of course the pulse-sync faciltity.
If you have dvd then you can record in purrfect sync dolby pro logic stereo sound.I have heard its superb.
The Elmo box of tricks doesn't end there.
Thank's to Derann you can buy Stereo sound movies on super8mm
and i can tell All you members its faultless,good clean stereo sound..sheer heaven.
This older machine takes 24v/200watt lamp EJL TYPE orA1/252.
Its image is superb and rock steady..what more do you need.
OPTICICAL SOUND.Another first was this machines very good optical
sound.It's good enough for most ears.
At the time this machine was considerd to be the BEST SUPER8MM PROJECTOR IN THE WORLD..,now 27years later has it been bettered.
MY view is no.The price at the time was £800.Anyone who still has
their machine,will tell you if it's STILL running.
There's so much more on this machine it would take me about four months to list what it can do;it's quet simply the greatest super8mm projector in the world.Never been touched by any other make before or since.Pawn your back teeth for one of those beauties.Bloody brillant machine...Andy.

[ August 19, 2006, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Wilson ]

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on August 19, 2006, 09:15 AM:

Andy, Optical sound came on the ST1200 series first and most will say that it's better on the St than on the GS.

The optical playback level on the GS is lower than on the ST and can give rise to higher hiss levels because of the increase in Vol needed. The ST doesnt suffer from this issue.

Remeber everyone that spares are not available for these machines so dont go putting the ELC 24V 250W lamp in these machines. It draws too much current from the transformer and could cause it to fail [Frown]

If you dont have an ESC lamp then use the EJL both are 24V 200W and at least your machines transformer wont be put under stress [Smile]

Kev.

Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on August 19, 2006, 12:35 PM:

Hello KEV.Yes the st1200 was better opiticlay than the gs1200.
My point is this...Ever since the GS came out everyone wants one.
I could never afford it when it first came out,but now i have got one im enjoying it a hellva lot.
I would love to hear your own views on your Xenon.To me kevin
the GS1200 is the main man in this excellent hobby of ours.Andy.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on August 19, 2006, 03:34 PM:

Ok Andy, I get your drift. Yes I will indeed do a little ditty on the Xenon version when I get a mo.

Kev.

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on August 19, 2006, 05:29 PM:

To be fair, Andrew did mention the EJL 200W lamp in his review only, no word about using an ELC 250W one. [Smile]

I do have one other bone to pick, though [Razz]

quote:
Although it says 1200,this machine can take 1600ft spools,that's the spools with the smaller core;than the stranded
1200ft spools.

This seems to be the other misconception that's pervasive throughout the super-8 community... there is no such thing as a 1600ft reel for 1200ft-capacity projectors. They do take more film, sure, but it comes out to roughly 1400ft at most (for acetate film, that is).

Seems Kevin and I both have our missions cut out for us... educating others about the 250W lamp and the small-core reels. [Big Grin]

P.S.: I wouldn't mind owning a GS-1200... but I almost want a Beaulieu 708EL more... and not because of its huge reel capacity, but because of the superior focusing mechanism and reversed film gate/pressure plate arrangement. Drool.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on August 19, 2006, 06:58 PM:

Those comments Jan are spot on. There are no spools that really hold that 1600ft of film. They are more like 1400ft but this does depend on the film stock and thickness of stripe.

Wittners now do a mod which allows the GS to go up to the spool sizes of the Beaulieu machines. The arms are longer which allows you to put the big spools on the machine. What impact this has on the small take-up motors does however worry me!

As of tonight I have a duff GS xenon. Its take-up has packed up and it looks like it's one of the relays that Ugo has often talked about has now failed.

Know what I shall be working on as direct replacements are no longer avialable so the relays have to be wired in [Frown]

Kev.

Posted by Antonio Costa Mota (Member # 221) on August 19, 2006, 07:27 PM:

There is no question about the GS 1200 being an outstanding projector. However, as Jan correctly points out, the Beaulieu
708EL-Stereo offers a better gate design and a more accurate
focusing system. This results in a picture with a sharp all
around edge definition, which most other projectors cannot match. Of course, the outstanding Schneider-Xenovaron 1,1 lens
plays a vital role in the overall result.

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on August 19, 2006, 07:32 PM:

Yeah, that's what I'm sayin' [Cool]

One thing I've always wondered about, though: How does the Beaulieu, with only 2 motors (main drive and capstan motor), manage to handle 2400ft. reels? The weight must be enormous. How long does it take to rewind a full feature film, and how fast is it? What kind of tension (torque) does the machine put on the film? Any concerns with film winding too tight (beginning) or too loose (end)?

I found that none of these questions were a real issue with my Elmo ST-1200HD after its 1600ft modification, but 2400ft is a whole different ballpark yet. [Eek!]

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on August 20, 2006, 12:55 AM:

If you check out some old posts I was offered a Beaulieu 708EL Stereo at a very good price. But everyone I spoke to said the sound wasn't that great and that the GS1200 with the right adujstments could look as good as the Beaulieu. I can tell you that with the Schneider 1.1 lens on my GS the sharpness is perfect from edge to edge. Even better than the 1.0 lens I use to have.
I passed on the Beaulieu but I am still tempted sometimes-especially the HTI model which sold for almost $5000 a year ago!

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on August 20, 2006, 05:27 AM:

Now that a very interesting point you make Jan.

My copy of Close Encounters has got cinch marks on the base side of the film. Fortunately Filmrenew has sorted most of that problem.

When I got the film it was on genuine 1600ft spools (larger than the 1200ft supaspools) and with further investigation I found out that the previous owner had a Beaulieu 708EL.

Cinch marks are normally caused by the film tightening towards the end of the reel during rewind. In other words as the film spool gets very full the torque pulls on the film with the result that the film slips on the spool until it is all tight. Its the abrasive nature of the base against the emulsion which results in the cinch/abrasive marks.

It would be interesting however to see how or hear how the Wittners 2400ft arms work on the GS.

Has anyone on the forum installed the new arms from Wittners?

One point about the Beaulieu is the non standard sound heads. They are narrower than on most other machines and although the sound is very good on the machine it was recorded on its very often low volumme and more hissy on other makes of machine. This has been well reported over the years and I have certianly had the effect myself having owned a Beaulieu before the GS Xenon that I now use.

Kev.

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on August 20, 2006, 08:33 AM:

I'll second that. I've had a 708 for many years before switching to the GS. The sound out of the Beaulieu is nothing compared to the one coming out of the Elmo.

And despite the great Xenovaron lens, the micrometric focusing system is very sensitive, needing constant supervision and adjustment, and becomes excessively hot during screening.

Never had any problem with rewinding as both arms can be adjusted via a simple and clever system of nuts and springs, similar to those found on 16 mm Eikis. Actually, when you look inside the Beaulieu, it looks very much like a 16 mm machine (the motor is huge, hence its ability of handling 2400 ft spools). But then again, the Buysse-Botazzi family, who designed the 708 for Beaulieu were designers builders of custom 16 mm and 35 mm machines.

So, in a nutshell, yes, the Beaulieu has a longer capacity, a better film gate design and a better manual loading/unloading procedure. But the more you use a GS1200, the more you realize it is far superior to all the other machines. It is the King of the Monsters (Godzilla pun intended).

And for those who don't have access to a GS, the ST1200 HD is actually better to use than the Beaulieu... But, that's just my opinion... And I'm french... [Wink]

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on August 20, 2006, 10:23 AM:

Wow, surprised to hear about the Beaulieu's (relatively) poor sound. One would think that with going to all the trouble of designing a separate capstan motor transport, they'd make use of the full width of the sound stripes...! And I thought that the focusing system's one big advantage was that you could "set it and forget it," apparently this is not the case.

Yup.

GS-1200 it is. [Big Grin]

Agree, though, the ST-1200HD is a fine machine and it's serving me quite well. [Smile]

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on August 20, 2006, 10:37 AM:

I agree with JM on the lens holder assay on the Beaulieu, it gets really hot and then you get shifts of focus due to metal expansion [Frown]

It could do with forced air cooling directly on the gate like the GS has.

Kev.

Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on August 20, 2006, 11:58 AM:

There you are guys.The GS1200 STEREO is still tops..at least on
this forum.Yes guys i know the supaspools only take about 1400ft
of film,that's about 70-75mins.
The spools are still named as 1600ft.that's good enough for me.Andy.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on August 20, 2006, 03:53 PM:

And my GS is now back in running order once more. It was one of the relays which I took the plastic cover off and then squirted in some switch cleaner. It worked again as soon as I did this [Smile]

How long that will cure it for will be interesting to see.

Yes Andy, it is a great machine, maybe a little overengineered but still a great all rounder especially the xenon version [Smile]

Just pay special attention to the plastic parts which wear and you will be ok.

Kev.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on August 20, 2006, 07:21 PM:

Hey Kev,
Next time I make it to the UK I will have to watch you take apart the GS.. just for fun of course.. ! [Smile]

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on August 20, 2006, 07:41 PM:

Anyone can take things apart... it's the putting back together that reveals your skills [Big Grin]

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on August 21, 2006, 06:44 AM:

It's when you realise there are a few too may screws left over [Big Grin]

The relay died again last night so it's back to the drawing board [Frown]

Kev.

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