8mm Forum: Did you ever film material off the television?

This is topic Did you ever film material off the television? in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002373

Posted by Richard Bignell (Member # 173) on December 29, 2006, 09:25 AM:

I wondered if anyone here ever set up their cine camera in fromnt of the television to try and commit clips of their favourite programme to 8mm?

The quality was usually a bit suspect, but it didn't usually come out too bad (although I understand that someone once produced a kit to help people make their own telerecordings onto cine).

I tried to do clips from an episode of Doctor Who many years ago. Did anyone else ever try this? [Big Grin]

Richard

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on December 29, 2006, 10:56 AM:

That's funny. I actually tried to do this. At the time (1989), I had a scope lense on my super 8 camera and I did a scope filming of (of all things) Redd Foxx on a talk show. It didn't come out great, but I didn't expect much.

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on December 29, 2006, 10:59 AM:

Yes Richard, I'm ashamed to say [Embarrassed]

.

Although I'm sure my attempt was MUCH WORSE than anything you did.

It was sometime in the mid-70's and I was like 12 years old and had a cheap super 8 camera and an even cheaper 13 inch black and white T.V. It was the network television premier of "Rollerball" (before it was actually released by Derann as a legitimate digest).

I hand-held my camera in front of the T.V. and attempted to make a 50 foot digest of the movie (silent, black and white). In light terms, the results were horrindous! I still have this film too (ironically, it was one of the few home movies from my childhood that survived to today [Mad]

)

But with today's flat-screened T.V.'s, and a little technical knowledge, I'm sure a decent picture could be shot from the T.V. in super 8 today.

Nick.

Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on December 29, 2006, 12:05 PM:

I also tried this once with my first super 8 camera, borrowed from a friend, in the early to mid 90's. I took a clip of snooker player Alex Higgins to see if it would come out as I fancied taking the whole of his 69 break. From what I remember it wasnt too bad but a bit dark and grainy only using K40 at the time. I never did take any more after that.

Once, I did take some film projected on a 6ft screen from a 16mm projector and was quite impressed with the results.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on December 29, 2006, 12:32 PM:

I did this myself back a long time ago with Ektachrome 160, the results were grainy and flickery too!

I've heard that using an XL camera gives better results filming off the screen due to their wider shutter angle. This means each frame receives more scans of the CRT and therefore the difference in brightness between the region of the screen above the scan when the shutter closes and below it aren't as pronounced (In other words, less pronounced rolling bars)

I guess by this logic, 18 FPS will do better than 24 as well. (plus the exposure factor...)

Ideally, the problem could be eliminated if you could sync the shutter to open and close when scans are completed, if you can pull that off, more power to you!

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on December 29, 2006, 12:46 PM:

Yes.. I have to admit I did it too! I filmed my favorite parts of Enter the Dragon off of TV so I could use the GS1200 to slow it down and I could see what was REALLY happening. It came out with a blue cast and there were rolling bars and flickering. But..I did see what he was doing!

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on December 29, 2006, 08:23 PM:

Yep, did it too back in 1980/1981. I shot some of a motor race on TV (the Bathhurst 1000). It was not too bad but the frame lines are the main annoyance. Some of my family appeared on the Family Feud gameshow and I have a bit of this also; it was the days before VCR's. I also shot a few ads, the Chrysler Sigma was one.

Just an experiment, but it is interesting to see how many others tried it.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on December 30, 2006, 10:34 AM:

Richard,

To answer your question, I should admit it that I did!. When it was? 18 years ago? or 8 years ago? no!.... eight months ago. :-)

I was at my second son birth and I did promise in this forum to take the birth as I have done it to my first son. This was during the dateline of pre-paid envelope and I rushed to filming it.

Unfortunately camera did not work well with me and the situation forced me to use a MiniDV as the back-up.

After the birth, since I did not anything to shoot and the dateline for processing was only two weeks to go, then I took a flat TV screen (21 inch) and put the contrast to the highest position (I was hoping to get enough light in compensating K40's low DIN/ASA). I darkened the room and placed the camera as close as possible to the TV screen.

Surely with the MiniDV, I could easily take the important moments to fit the 3 minutes duration.

What was the result?.....

Ok... the flat screen TV with the new technology was hoped to give a better result than the old one. But apparently, it did not do well. the result was still flickery and grainy too.

The highest contrast that I made, did not help much to the picture since the result was still to dark.

I don't know what the result would be if I was using a big LCD/Plasma screen. Would it be flickery and grainy too?

cheers, and happy new year 2007!

Posted by Stewart McSporran (Member # 128) on December 30, 2006, 10:47 AM:

Looks like we all did.

I went through all the old family films in December prior to having them transferred to DVD for my parents. I threw away about 15 feet of the BBC spinning globe and parts of a Popeye cartoon. Must have filmed these around 1978/79.

Posted by Jonathan Sanders (Member # 478) on December 30, 2006, 01:47 PM:

In 1981 I was making a Super 8 sound anti-war film, based around the reminiscences of an English World War One veteran who had lost an arm. I needed some real and suitably grim WW1 footage to show while he talked on the soundtrack (I did not have lip-sync sound) and I couldn't find any appropriate footage commercially available on Super 8. But then, as now, there were plenty WW1 documentaries on TV, so I filmed quite a lot from the TV and edited the shots as I wanted them, just like any other film.

The main problem was the strobing (rolling bar) effect, which you also see in many theatrical 35mm films that have shots of a TV in use. When you don't see the strobing you know they have faked the TV picture with a special effect of some kind!

I completed the film and still have it, along with a 90 minute audio tape of very frank and sometimes bitter recollections of this World War One veteran, who died some years ago. Now that there are only a handful of British veterans still alive, the film - whatever its shortcomings - seems all the more valuable, at least to me.

Posted by Tom A. Pennock (Member # 202) on December 30, 2006, 07:57 PM:

Way before video taping off of tv was common I did not try to film off of tv because of the 18 fps versus the 24fps difference. But I must admit that in 1972 I began to record the soundtrack's of many movies to listen to them later on. The kid's growing up today as so spoiled!!! I still have the Sharp reel to reel recorder I used. Also I still have the soundtrack's as well. One of the first ones I recorded was Dr. No when ABC aired it on the network for the first time. I plugged the recorder into a portable television external jack to get the best sound. Anyone else record just the sound from feature length movie's on tv? I also remember year's ago dealer Buddy McDaniel offering custom pressed vinyl record soundtracks for many hundreds of movies. They were pricey and I don't see how he ever got any clearance's from studio's as far as right's issues. He probably didn't.

--Tom

Posted by Jonathan Sanders (Member # 478) on December 31, 2006, 06:11 AM:

In the 1970s I used to record the soundtracks of televised silent movies like CALIGARI and POTEMKIN, which I owned (or hoped to own) on 8mm, then play the tape while watching the 8mm print. I couldn't afford music-tracked prints at that time, even where available.

In the late 1960s (as a small boy) I also recorded the audio of an entire TV series called GOLDEN SILENTS, introduced by Michael Bentine from London's National Film Theatre. It consisted of short clips from silent comedies, including many rarities that are still difficult to see today (e.g. Harry Langdon's THE SEA SQUAWK). Although I did try to edit together the music for use with 8mm comedies, I also liked to re-hear Bentine's intros (he was quite informative, at least by the standards of the day) and re-run the clips (on which I also made notes) in my mind. That might seem bizarre, even "sad", but it was certainly a good way to become knowledgeable and enthusiastic about silent films!

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on January 31, 2007, 03:34 AM:

And here we go:

shortened link to correct page formatting

cheers,

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on January 31, 2007, 05:43 AM:

My dad filmed (video) off TV in 1966 using the Sony open reel low density video recorder/camera and a mike up against the TV speaker. Those were the days!

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on January 31, 2007, 06:10 AM:

Hi Lee could you mail me your address please.
There are one or two things I once fancied filming off the TV but never tried with the strobing affect you can get even with camcorders.
There are odd scenes in films I`d love to have on film but not the whole thing.
Best Mark.

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on January 31, 2007, 07:49 AM:

When I got my first reel to reel recorder...about age 11 or 12, I used to put my mike up near the tv speaker and tape movies to listen to later. I kept that up for many years...using cassettes , too. Still have and listen to some of those tapes some 40 years later. Also at that time experiemented with my regular 8mm camera shooting some scenes of Charlie Chan at the Olympics. I was surprised.....it wasn't too awful. Came out in a blue tint..with some strobe bars, but not too bad. I just wanted to see how it would come out.

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on February 02, 2007, 02:10 AM:

Hi, guys.
Don't have the time to read all the previous replies to this thread, so excuse me if this has already been said, but I did it this way:

LCD screen: it has to be because it will show no flicker or dark bars etc. (don't know about plasma screens).

Conversion filter on camera (No. 85) must be on. i.e. switch on the sun symbol (otherwise you get a blue cast)

Proper positioning of the camera is critical, of course.

Only issue: screen brightness, because you need a lot of light to get a decent picture but with the new Ektachrome 100 D this problem should be solved, ,albeit working with very large aperutres (this stock needs to filter off).

Hope this helps.
Cheers

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on February 02, 2007, 07:20 AM:

Dont take this the wrong way but [Confused]

Why would anyone want to spend ££££ on a 50ft cartrage to film something off the telly?????? [Wink]

[ February 02, 2007, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: Tom Photiou ]

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on February 02, 2007, 02:26 PM:

I think when this post started, it was mostly referring to the old days before video.

But, there are occassions when a video screen can be helpful for movie making. For instance, some people make computer animated title cards to preceed a home movie.

I'll have to try Maurizio's method. Sounds logical to me.

Nick.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on February 03, 2007, 01:38 PM:

fair do [Wink]

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on February 04, 2007, 12:43 PM:

Tom, in fact I just use the method I described for filming impressive title cards.

Once I filmed the "Empire Strikes Back" rolling antefacts titles (in Italian) to join at the beginning of the two reel digest.

Everybody can ask a visual artist a nice animated title for presenting his films in his priovate cinema. And then transfer it to film: imagine a 30 year old technology with modern CGI animated titles!
Cheers

Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on February 04, 2007, 02:53 PM:

I used an M4(or was it M2?) Kodak super 8 camera using a Kodachrome 40 cartridge (with the light on, no less)to film THE BEATLES doing "Hey Jude" and "Revolution" @18fps off the Smothers Brothers show in 1968 in B&W. Then played it back with the open reel recording...those were the days! and Tom P., a roll of film (including processing)was pretty cheap back then...I think it cost $4.00 for the film, and $2.50 for processing(USD)at the time. [Smile]

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 04, 2007, 06:32 PM:

We had a neighbor across the street who is probably the biggest early inspiration I had for getting into 8mm film, but was a spectacularly bad filmmaker. (Sometimes she turned the camera on its side to get a vertical image....)

She shot the Beatles' appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show off the screen in R8, but then double exposed the same roll with her kids playing in their wading pool.

"The Beatles in the Pool" became a classic, and was often requested when she set up her projector for years afterwards!

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on February 05, 2007, 10:08 AM:

At age 13 I went through a period of filming Toho monster films off the TV screen, using my brother's Kodak XL360. Since I knew the films so well, I tried to make my own 3 minute digests (complete with title cards) all edited in camera. Aside from the rolling bar, I often ended up with the TV itself in the frame!

Doug

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on February 07, 2007, 11:36 AM:

Only thing I ever did was audio-record via my trusty little HITACHI reel-to-reel tape recorder - Used to buy hour-long tapes, sorry I threw them all away, as I had the 1969 intro music to WNEW-5's REEL CAMP and the 1967 CBS-2 SUPERMAN/AQWUAMAN HOUR OF ADVENTURE - Heard there was a VHS of that somewhere - Shorty

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2