8mm Forum: How many features at 18fps

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Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on December 31, 2006, 10:59 AM:

I've been pondering this question for some time. I'm talking about feature films released as 18fps. I remember watching a horror B picture "Midnight at Madame Tussauds" which was a Blackhawk print on 2 x 600ft reels (I think). After watching it you realised why this didnt catch on as any fast motion suffered. The only advantages I could think of is that the projector runs dead quiet and of course the feature takes less film making it cheaper.

The question is, Were there any other features (or cutdowns) released as 18fps?

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on December 31, 2006, 02:00 PM:

Columbia release some cartoons and 3 Stooges cut downs in regular 8 magnetic sound at 18 frames per second. Don't know of anyone else that went to the trouble of optically printing the 24 fps negative to 18 fps and re-recording sound in sync at the new speed.

John

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on December 31, 2006, 02:38 PM:

John,

I remember that Blackhawk tried
this with Laurel and Hardy's
Dirty Work and Busy Bodies in the
8mm format.

Michael

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on December 31, 2006, 04:59 PM:

Correct Micheal, as well as "Brats" and "The MUsic Box". I wouldn't be suprised if there were many titles.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on January 02, 2007, 01:05 AM:

I have a Blackhawk catalog from 11/77 that reflect Busy Bodies and Dirty Work @18fps. My question would be "Why would they even bother"? I mean it couldn't possibly have been cost-effective for them. What they would save in raw film stock they would be spending in re-syncing the sound. Not to mention how movement would be retarded. Also, why only a few titles and not the whole damned catalog? I just never saw the point. Does anyone have or ever owned one of these re-modulated (ersatz AMERICOM) Blackhawk titles we speak of?

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 02, 2007, 11:19 AM:

I currently have "The Music Box", (Laurel and Hardy), which fits on a very full 400ft. reel. Actually it works pretty well on laurel and Hardy titles, as the dialogue could easily be substituted with titles.

I think it was just a current thingback then. That or perhaps they thought that people would like the films in that format. Strange though.

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on January 02, 2007, 04:36 PM:

The Blackhawk 18fps entries
was an attempt to offer sound
shorts at a considerable savings
when projected at 18fps.

To my understanding, there
was not any difference in
picture and sound.

Preferably, music plays better
at a faster rate on a tape
player or in a projector.

Blackhawk stated that they
were interested in marketing
this format with the consumer
in mind.

At the time, silver was a high
priced commodity, whereas
the Hunt Brothers were
cornering the Silver Market.

Perhaps this was also Blackhawks angle
with keeping print costs low?

Michael

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on January 02, 2007, 10:19 PM:

I don't know about Blackhawk's resons, but Columbia brought out their 18 fps releases in conjunction with a sound adapter tht Agfa brought out for one of their 8mm projectors. That machine ran at 18 fps so Columbia was a source for commercial films for that projector.

Castle and AAP release in regular 8mm were 24fps. The Fairchild camera ran at 24 fps as well.

John

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on January 02, 2007, 10:26 PM:

John,

This is very interesting info.
regarding Columbias venture with
films manufactured at 18fps.

Thank you.

Michael

Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on January 03, 2007, 07:17 AM:

Thanks everyone for your responses. It seems that there was quite a few of these films released not only from Blackhawk but also from Columbia. However I'm glad this method didnt catch on big time.

Posted by Joerg Polzfusz (Member # 602) on January 03, 2007, 09:39 AM:

AFAIK some of the early silent films have been shot at approx. 16fps... Hence releasing them at 18fps (with and without some piano as a soundtrack) would make sense.

Posted by Timothy Ramzyk (Member # 718) on January 03, 2007, 05:57 PM:

Blackhawk put those "Enchanted Studio" reels out at 18fps. but I'm pretty sure it reflected how they were shot, and it was only music on the track.

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on January 03, 2007, 05:59 PM:

I just remembered,
that I also have a scored Super 8mm
print of the Great Train Robbery.

It runs best at 18fps., becuase at
24fps, the quick movement action
is too fast and difficult to
follow.

Michael

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on January 03, 2007, 06:23 PM:

I have "Two Tars" with a music track. It seems that both the action and music seem right only at 24 FPS.

Blackhawk's Great Train Robbery came in two versions (emulsion-wise, at least) There is the straight Black and White and the one with the hand colorised sections (early special effects: - oooooooh!). The straight black and whites look better now because the colorised ones are often red faded.

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on January 04, 2007, 08:36 PM:

I have found at times
that most silent films,
post 1925 seem to play
better at 24fps.

Michael

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