8mm Forum: Derann Cutdowns

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Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on January 01, 2007, 08:17 PM:

How are the Derann cutdowns, in general? Are they edited as complete stories or are they basically like the Niles digests where they're primarily the last two-three reels of a feature? Titles that come to mind are..."Sea Hawk", "Road To Bali", "Maltese Falcon", "Robin Hood".

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on January 02, 2007, 03:18 AM:

Brad some of the finest editors worked on making Derann cutdowns very enjoyable mini movies. In some cases (multi reelers), you have to put sequences in order (Carrie, It's a Mad, Mad, Mad World...) but no big deal. Maltese Falcon is great and features some of the best lines from the original movie.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on January 02, 2007, 03:19 AM:

Derann releases were in general edited by BBC film editors. Keith Wilton and Ken Locke were the pair who brought us all the UA releases and plenty of the others. For example Ken did the Phantasm 400 foot reel whilst Keith did The Uncanny and The Comeback.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on June 15, 2017, 09:06 AM:

Are the single 400' digests (Key Largo, Maltese Falcon, etc.) also out of order? I'd to hate have to cut up a single digest like an apple pie and have all kinds of splices jumping throughout. At least Universal, Columbia and others kept the scenes in their proper order. I know Derann had no choice with their 2 & 3-parters due to contract stipulations from Warner/UA. Just hoping they were more lenient with digests limited to 1-reel editions.

Posted by Barry Attwood (Member # 100) on June 15, 2017, 09:30 AM:

Brad,

"Key Largo" is one of the best edited 400's ever in my opinion, you really get a taste of the film, one to look out for. Another great 400' edit (of a so-so film) was "Kingdom of the Spiders" with William Shatner and Joan Collins, and if you like Hammer movies, then "The Mummy's Shroud" was very well edited as well. Just 3 for you to look out for.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 15, 2017, 10:59 AM:

Agree with Barry on that, for your interest here is my review of Kingdom of Spiders, you do feel like you have watched the full movie with this edit.

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000470

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on June 15, 2017, 02:06 PM:

The 400ft "Road To Bali" is well done and tells the story in a very abbreviated way.
It includes the Jane Russell ending.
The only "Road" film in colour.

Posted by Joseph Randall (Member # 4906) on June 15, 2017, 08:41 PM:

THE MALTESE FALCON was released in 2X400 foot parts. I bought mine on an 800 foot reel, and judging from the splices, it was originally out of order.

Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on June 16, 2017, 01:34 AM:

Joseph - I think you are correct regarding The Maltese Falcon. I also seem to think there might have been a 1x 400' version available. I seem to recall comparing the two and the 1x 400' had a few shots not in the 2x 400'...... or was it two variations of the 2x 400' ?

Can anyone else verify this for me,please?

.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on June 16, 2017, 03:09 AM:

The deal Derann did for these was for 2 400ft extracts from each film. these could not be consecutive but tell a self contained story in each. Perhaps seeing it in hat form, not re-edited into original order made it seem there was extra.

The only one they put out more extracts of was Robin Hood. In fact only one of the new ones was an edited extract (by Keith Wilton who is an Errol Flynn fan) the 4th was just a couple of long scenes that had been dropped from the release.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on June 17, 2017, 03:02 PM:

To answer Brad's question about Derann releases on just ONE 400', I'm not aware of any that had scenes not in their original order. While I agree that many are very well edited, keep in mind that a factor in the involvement of skilled editors was that some of the earlier 'in-house' editing wasn't so impressive! Some factors are a matter of taste - some editors felt that including full opening credits created a classier product, while some collectors might prefer edited credits and more of the film's content.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 17, 2017, 03:23 PM:

Deranns 2 x 400s from united artists were sold as two seperates.dereck did a clever thing here as i understand it, derann wernt allowd to release a mini feature so he sold them in a way that they were officially two edited versions which stood alone in there own rights but could of course be edited in order to make the 30 minuite version which any normal collector chose to do. I think there were a couple that did run one after the other but were still sold as two 400s and both reels contained from and end titles so as to get around the UA rules.
I think. [Wink]

This did work for the most part but there are a few exceptions where the quality of part 1 and two were miles apart in either frame, sound and focus which when joined together could be a pain.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 17, 2017, 03:46 PM:

Yes, Tom is right, this is all true. The UA agreement at that time was quite clear.

Derann could release two or three 400ft versions of a particular UA title, but the contract was that each had to be self contained.

In other words, UA did not want home movie fans running longer consecutive versions of their movies than 400ft (for whatever bizarre legal reason one of their copyright people must have concocted) but did allow different 400ft version to be released.

Step in cunning editors and you get say, "Carrie" amongst others, where both 400ft versions work on their own, but can also be quite easily re-assembled into a nice 2 x 400ft consecutive versions by home movie enthusiasts with a splicer.

In fact, some movie maker magazines at the time which had a film review section pointed out that it was (by total chance, mind you!) possible to reassemble such releases.

The fact that some of the film reviewers MAY have actually edited the original 400 footers had NOTHING to do with such a coincidence.

Just pure fluke...
[Wink]

So nice 2 x 400ft and 3 x 400ft versions of desirable UA titles achievable and no contract breached.

Such a funny situation to contemplate in this day and age, but the excitement and enjoyment of editing together 30 minute versions of, say "Carrie" back in the day was just, well, happy days...

Posted by Joseph Randall (Member # 4906) on June 17, 2017, 05:08 PM:

THEY DIED WITH THEIR BOOTS ON and THE SEA HAWK, which I have un-spliced on 2x400 foot reels each, appear to be in the correct order with no editing necessary to create the proper flow.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 18, 2017, 12:30 AM:

The 400ft only contract certainly applied to the "contemporary" titles such as "Carrie" and "Rollerball" for example and also affected releases such as Errol Flynn's "Robin Hood".

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on June 18, 2017, 02:33 AM:

Also Carrie carried the condition that Sissy Spacek's bare breasts could not be included, which meant a costly printing of a freeze frame in the title sequence to avoid this. This was becuase the film title was over her in the school shower.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 18, 2017, 03:13 AM:

Joseph, you are correct on thise titles. There were a few to the exception like those which certainly made life a lot easier.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on June 18, 2017, 08:05 AM:

I'm not certain but I'd guess that the UA stipulations were because 400' releases had become very common, and they were uneasy about significantly longer versions starting to resemble full features, although that seems odd at a time when the home video boom was looming.

If I remember rightly, there's actually a scene in 'Carrie' (in the school library) that appears out of sequence in the 400' it came in (and in my edited together version). If I'm right, this adds clarity to the Super 8 release even though it wouldn't work in the context of the feature.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 18, 2017, 02:52 PM:

Quote;

"Also Carrie carried the condition that Sissy Spacek's bare breasts could not be included, which meant a costly printing of a freeze frame in the title sequence to avoid this. This was becuase the film title was over her in the school shower."

Again, true, because UA insisted on all pre-title credits, but no Sissy nudity. Dilemma for Derann at the time.

Again, how all so stupid this all looks today.

No wonder VHS became so popular...

We really do have to thank Derek and his staff for persisting in providing movie fans with real film in such a trying era.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on June 19, 2017, 10:38 AM:

The boobs issue was probably because a clear still could be redered from a film frame rather than by snapping an image from a tv screen with a paused VHS tape. I like the movie and don't really care about seeing her maguffies. If that's what it took to release the digest on super 8 then I'm good with it.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 19, 2017, 11:10 AM:

Brad, I'm a huge Brian De Palma fan, and whilst I do understand the restrictions upon the super 8 release via Derann, I also think that a lot of rather silly lawyers made a lot of money during this time from other persons hard and well intentioned work.

Moving image censorship here in the UK is well documented and most ridiculous over the last 30 years. But that's politics, so we can't discuss it here.

"Carrie" in it's original form is one of the most beautiful and disturbing films ever made.

Recently watched "Body Double" on restored on Blu-ray in my home cinema.

De Palama was hit hard for this one, but watch it again with hindsight and it's contemporary and cinematic genious.

Sorry, nothing to do with super 8, but what great times for movie lovers we live in...

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on June 19, 2017, 11:15 AM:

You're right, Rob. More than likely an opportunity for her solicitors to make a few hundred pounds back in the day.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on June 19, 2017, 11:25 AM:

I still have fond memories of re-cutting "Carrie" into a 2 x 400ft version and then inviting my mates around to see it.

[ June 20, 2017, 01:59 AM: Message edited by: Rob Young. ]

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