8mm Forum: Super 8 digests with scenes out of sequence?

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Topic: Super 8 digests with scenes out of sequence?

Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

posted January 14, 2007 12:06 PM

Seeing Pablo's message about his unfortunate projector breakdown reminded me of when I obtained a print of 'Carrie' that had been edited together. The previous owner had done a pretty good job but I was sure that there was a scene - featuring Carrie and the guy who takes her to the ball - that was out of sequence, but I don't think I changed it because there were no splices and it seemed to have intentionally been placed out of sequence within other scenes from the same 400'. Its placing was fine within the context of the digest, because the scenes that had to appear before it in the feature had been completely edited out.

I wondered if anyone watching another digest has ever noticed a situation where scenes have been placed in a different order in comparison to the original film, possibly to help a digest make sense?

[ January 14, 2007, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]

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Adrian Winchester

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 14, 2007 12:48 PM

CASTLE/U-8 release "Frank. Meets Wolfman" (200' version) has a transformation sequence in the tomb that is actually from later on in the film when Talbot (Chaney) is in the sanitarium. It works effectively, though. So, it never bothered me.

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Andreas Eggeling
Master Film Handler

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From: R.I.P.
Registered: Aug 2003

posted January 15, 2007 03:24 PM

[ August 07, 2008, 09:18 AM: Message edited by: Andreas Eggeling ]

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Mal Brake
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 591
From: Neath, South Wales, UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 15, 2007 05:31 PM

The 2 X 400ft version of It'sa Mad Mad Mad Mad World had a cutaway chase scene out of sequence. Only noticed it after quite a few screenings
Mal

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted January 16, 2007 02:29 AM

U8's cutdown of My Name is Nobody. The opening scene of the 400fter happens normally later in the film, long after the second scene of the digest. But it is clearly used as an intro for the character.

The most bizarre occurence is a French film called "The Body of my Ennemy", starring Jean-Paul Belmondo and released as a two-parter by Piccolo. The plot construction of the original film relies on flashbacks and flash-forwards, as opposed to the cut-down version, which is more or less edited back in chronological order.

[ January 16, 2007, 04:27 AM: Message edited by: Jean-Marc Toussaint ]

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James N. Savage 3
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1375
From: Washington, DC
Registered: Jul 2003

posted January 16, 2007 10:30 AM

In Ken's 400 foot digest of "ONE MILLION YEARS, B.C."-

The scene at the beginning of the digest, right after the titles, there are two dinasouars fighting. In the actuall feature film, this scene takes place later, after Tumak is separated from his tribe.

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 16, 2007 12:08 PM

In Universal 8's "Swashbuckler", Genevieve Bujold enters a tavern to seek Robert Shaw's help against a tyrant. Soldiers break in and a wild chase ensues involving Shaw, Bujold and James Earl Jones. It all flows well, except that in the feature the chase occurs way before that scene with Shaw and Bujold. The rearrangement helps to condense the film and also works with the narrative.

Doug

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Pablo Alvarez Roth
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 129
From: Chile
Registered: Aug 2006

posted January 17, 2007 01:19 PM

Thank´s Adrian for the support on my loss, (but it´s a new excuse to buy me a new proyector, and it seems thats its for the best since I found a yelco DD 630 stereo, hope it works out)

anyway, I have noticed that some edits eventhough aren´t in the origianl theatrical versions are to keep the extract story´s in line, I mean that thay help to tell the story or fill in the gaps that cutdowns have stroy wise.

but in carrie´s case, what I thing derrann did was to release two separate digests in different times that tell two different story´s about 1 same film

One would be the story of carrie and what happens at the school, and the other about carrie and her mother.

I guess that these reels were sold separtely at the time so they work as two separate story´s instead of 1 in two parts.

but if one has both, it´s great to edit them together and have one longer feature. Also I have a third reel wich UA realesed, and have a few more scenes to add.

1 - Carrie in the shower, and having her period
2 - carrie talking to her teacher
3 - the incident before the bucket of blood scene where amy tries to stop the rope being pulled and the teacher pulls her away
4 - carrie arriving home drenched in blood and having the bath.

I wanted to add these scenes to my new derrann edit but unfortunately my UA 400 footer is incredibly red, and was told by an expert that this could affect my derran print witch is pristine with wonderfull colors, and due to the chemical imbalance and color degradation could ruin my derrann print.

Last, I wanted to comment on editing abstracts, I noticed after editing this carrie abstract, some time the audio of some scenes start before the frame come so during the edits I could hear the the starts or ends of some scenes edited.

I guess I will have to rerecord the whole new audio from a dvd, rather than loose a few start or end frames of the scenes I edited.

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

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From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted January 17, 2007 01:45 PM

Pablo: there's an 18 frame difference between image and sound, so hearing something that's been edited out is normal. Look inside a projector, you'll notice that, on the film path, the sound head is located *after* the gate.

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Andrew Wilson
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: dundonald,belfast,co.antrim,northern ireland.
Registered: Jan 2006

posted January 17, 2007 01:51 PM

Yes several old and new cutdowns have had scenes re arraged..
JAWS-1X200FT & 2X400FT.
PEARL HARBOUR-1X400FT
BANDOLERO-1X400FT.
THE MUMMY'S GHOST-1X400FT.
That's just four of the top of my head. heaven knows how many more there is out there!Andy.

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

posted January 17, 2007 03:48 PM

Pablo,
Hope all works out well with the replacement projector.
You're quite right about the self contained nature of the two Derann 400' releases, but I think the scene I mentioned is placed out of sequence even within the 400' in question.
I'd never heard of the UA 400' you mention - is that a German release?
You've done very well to find the Derann releases with perfect colour - mine have faded somewhat. I suppose Derann must have printed a few on low-fade stock in the 1980s.
Another way in which the digest differs to the feature is that the music heard in the shock scene with the hand, at the end, continues over the end credits, instead of the return of the much quieter music heard over the opening credits.

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Adrian Winchester

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Pablo Alvarez Roth
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 129
From: Chile
Registered: Aug 2006

posted February 05, 2007 10:59 PM

yepp you´re right, I checked my derran release and you cha here the end of the actual scene over the end titles.

Now regarding my UA release its a spanish release, I bought from argentina, unfortunately it is trerebly red, (its the redest film I have in my collection and not worth editing into the derran I fear it might be contageous and contaminate the derran print

licensed by UA and has a MAHIER logo it says UA2 on the spine, anyone know about it, I wonder if german print has the same scenes not in derran.

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Carter Bradley
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 156
From: Greensboro, NC, USA
Registered: Dec 2007

posted December 23, 2007 09:04 PM

Add Universal 8 and Castle Films versions of "Psycho" to scenes rearranged category. In both, Norman carries his mother's corpse down the stairs (to hide her in the fruit cellar) before he/she kills Marion Crane. In the original film, Norman hides mother because he believes she murdered Marion, and is afraid someone will accuse her of the crime.

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James E. Stubbs
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 104
From: Portland, OR
Registered: Apr 2007

posted March 09, 2008 12:34 AM

I came across this pretty cool site listing out several Derann films and scans of the covers. Also has a picture of Derek in the recording suite Check it!
http://www.angelfire.com/movies/8mmboxes/8mmderann.html

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James E. Stubbs
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