8mm Forum: Best ever S8 projection lens?

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Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on January 20, 2007, 01:57 PM:

A few years ago I owned a Kodak M100 Super 8 sound projector which came fitted with an amazing fixed focal length (non-zoom) Ektar f1.0 20mm lens. I got rid of the projector, but kept the lens because I had never seen a lens as sharp and contrasty as this one. When I got my Eumig S938 stereo I turned down the outside diameter of the Ektar lens so it would fit the Eumig, and the picture quality was amazing with the Eumig's 150 watt lamp. So I have been trying to see how to fit this lens into an Elmo GS1200 so I could compare it with the superb Elmo f1.0 lens.
In order to do this I had to make a few simple changes to the Elmo lens holder, such as removing the flat spring, and the lens engagement pin. I also had to open up the diameter of the hole in the plate in front of the lens. Having done this, I can now get the Ektar lens to push into the housing far enough to obtain focus - and the results are incredible.
As fabulous as the Elmo F1.0 zoom lens is, the little fixed focus Ektar lens beats it on all counts. Sharpness is needle sharp across the full field - when you can see shimmering sharp film grain everywhere you know that's as sharp as it gets. Brightness was also improved, the picture seems a lot whiter. But the real pay off is contrast which is noticeably improved- the colors seem more vivid, and blacks seem deeper.
I don't know if this Ektar lens is the best ever S8 projection lens, but I have yet to see one better. It was used on the first Kodak S8 sound projector, the M100, so maybe Kodak went to great lengths to get a superb lens to showcase the intoduction of super 8 sound film.
More probably though it's just that a top quality non zoom lens will always beat a top quality zoom lens. We saw that on standard 8mm cameras with top quality prime lenses, which always seemed to produce a more dazzling picture than super 8 cameras with zoom lenses.
Anyway, the Ektar will now be permanently fitted to my GS1200 and the Elmo f1.0 will go in the drawer. My Elmo alread has been converted to a 2-blade shutter, and combined with this amazing lens it produces an extremely sharp very white picture, probably as good as you can get without going to a xenon lamp.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on January 21, 2007, 02:52 AM:

but then what is your poor Eumig going to use? [Frown]

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on January 21, 2007, 10:41 AM:

Fortunately it can be used on both machines.

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on January 21, 2007, 11:20 AM:

I'm really amazed. I own an Elmo 1.0 and a Sankyo 1.0. All in all they seem very close under all possible terms of comparison.
Never in my life would I have imagined a Kodak lens could beat them, as the two Japanese lenses are really sharp: I can easily see grain structure with them both.

Could you post a side by side comparison of the Ektar and the Elmo?

Posted by Antonio Costa Mota (Member # 221) on January 21, 2007, 12:10 PM:

Hi Paul
I shall have to keep watching E-bay and see if a Kodak M 100
projector turns up and go for it. I certainly would love to own such a lens. There are very few outstanding lens available. Surely the Elmo 1.0 is one of them. The other one is the Schneider 1,1 and the 1,3 as well. Although all the aforementioned ones score very high in terms of sharpness, contrast and brightness. One feature I personaly value is
FLATNESS OF FIELD. How does the Ektar lens perform in this respect ?

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on January 21, 2007, 12:33 PM:

Paul
That was interesting using a fixed lens, I have never been a fan of zoom lenses both in projectors and cameras I have seem some amazing results on film shot with a simple point to shoot Standard 8 with a fixed lens, this also applies when Standard 8 is projected, far better than what I have achieved on Super 8. Both my 16mm and 35mm have fixed focal lenses luckly I have managed to avoid using zoom convertors. Paul also what you have done I guess will improve Scope presentations not always the easiest to focus using a zoom. Its a pity that Elmo did not supply a range of high quality fixed lenses for there projectors.

Graham.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on January 21, 2007, 02:37 PM:

Hi Graham,
Yes I see the greatest improvement with scope projection. The little Ektar lens has a very flat field, razor sharp across the full frame, so focussing is very easy even with scope films. Don't get me wrong, the Elmo f1.0 zoom lens is superb and is the best zoom projection lens I have yet seen, it's just that the fixed focus Ektar is noticeably better. Of course a zoom lens has many more lens elements than a simple fixed focus lens, and even though each element is coated, the more surfaces you have the more light loss you get, and the more optical scatter you get, which reduces contrast as well. Also compromises have to be made with optical abberations to accomodate the zoom range of the lens. A fixed focus lens is much easier to get perfect.
My standard 8mm films, taken with a Bolex C8 fitted with Kern Switar prime lenses, are far superior to anything I have taken on Super 8 cameras with the ubiquitous zoom lens. Really, super 8 was a backward step in some respects. The standard 8 cameras all had precision metal gates, whereas the super 8 plastic cartridge is pretty awful. Fujii got it right with their single 8 design.

Antonio, The Kodak M100 is actually a superb projector, being essentially a Super 8 version of the 16mm Kodak Pageant projector. So its solid metal construction with a beauutiful finish and can take 2000ft reels. The main problem I had with my M100 was sound quality which, at least on my machine, was poor in comparison with a Eumig 800. Here is a photo of the Kodak M100:

I would highly recommend the M100 for silent film projection, but not for sound film.

Posted by Antonio Costa Mota (Member # 221) on January 21, 2007, 06:02 PM:

Paul
Many thanks for your comments about the Kodak M 100 projector.
By the way, what is the original barrel size of the Ektar lens ?
That is a very impressive picture of the M 100 projector. It looks very nice. Thanks.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on January 22, 2007, 03:02 AM:

Paul
I carried out an experiment last year with my B/H 16mm, the lens I use is a 40mm I then placed a zoom converter in front of the lens which I adjusted to the same screen picture size, with the projector running and the lamp on, with no film, I moved the zoom convertor on or away from the 40mm, I found the light on the screen was whiter and brighter without it, compared with using the converter which seemed dull in comparison. I thought at the time that the zoom converter was not only affecting the brightness but also the sharpness of the image, maybe some are better quality than others but it put me of using them. I wonder if similar results could apply to Super8 zoom lenses.

Graham.

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