8mm Forum: History of Sound on Super 8/standard 8mm anyone?

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 09, 2007, 11:31 PM:

It just occurs to me, (and baffles me that I never asked this question before), that I've never posed the post before ..

When did sound begin on super 8/standard 8mm.

Lets limit this to the super/standard market, as we know that people were enjoying sound on 16mm for a long time.

Lets also rule out the old record format, (sound recorded on records) as well as the reel to reel tape sychronization, (though this was most certianly the percursor to sound on film.

Questions being ....

What were the first magnetic sound films? Were they super 8 or standard 8 first?

How long has super 8 optical sound been around? I Know that airline prints went way back into the mid to late 60's, but these were not made for the common collectors market.

and ....

What was the first super 8 sound release?

What was the first Standard 8mm sound release?

Now here's one I really want to sink my teeth into!

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 10, 2007, 06:40 AM:

Here's some background information from Tim Christian's Walton Films page:

http://www.isoplethics.co.uk/walton/magstripe.html

Posted by Barry Johnson (Member # 84) on February 10, 2007, 08:00 AM:

The first comercially produced Standard 8mm sounds films I recollect from my library days were:

1) "UN QUART DE HEUR AT SAN GERMAINE"
French offering in black & white from the then Film Office company of France.It ran to 6mins and had,surprisingly,an english sound track.

2) "COUNTY HOSPITAL"
Laurel & Hardy 400 footer from Walton.Everyones seen it so no description necessary!

Then things came on line quickly,with the brilliant Warner cartoons in sound.Good recordings and brilliant picture.These cartoons were also the first ones to appear as superimposed titles marketed under the "a.a.p" brand (Warner).

Both these titles came to light during March 1961.Take up of the new sound format was very slow,due to lack of commercial projectors and of course,people that could afford them.

The first sound projector for sale at the same time was a CIRSE SOUND which also had the capacity to record.Personally I thought they were pants,as one had to manually set the sound damping over the soundhead to get a good reproduction.That said,some of the striping/ recording of commercial prints was also hit and miss.Many had to be returned to the manufacturers for replacement.
Some time after,came the brilliant TOEI TALKIE,well thought out film/sound path and good sound reproduction (given the aforementioned manufacturing problems).
Following that,came the ubiquitous EUMIG range which set the benchmark for others to follow.
I once owned a Cirse,so I cannot give a better account of its performance.I now own the Toei and can certainly endorse its capabilities.
Hope this information helps kick off this intriguing thread.Brilliant times they were and great to relive!
Barry.

Posted by Joerg Polzfusz (Member # 602) on February 12, 2007, 07:58 AM:

Hi,

I'm just reading an East German book called "Amateurfilmbuch für alle" (VEB Fotokinoverlag Leipzig). According to it the first projectors with mag-stripe-recording to be produced in the GDR have been a 16mm-projector produced by the VEB Carl Zeiss Jena in 1958 and a Normal8-projector produced by the VEB Kombinat Pentacon Dresden in 1960.
I suspect that the Western countries have been faster than this.

Jörg

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on February 14, 2007, 09:03 PM:

The first commercial 8mm sound projector was the Calvin Sound 8 from the mid 1950s made by the Calvin Company of Kansas City, MO. It took 1200 foot reels and was basically a Kodak 8mm projector with a sound head assembly and Moviemite reel arms.

The Calvin Company was both a film producer and laboratory as well as manfacturer or equipment. The format was not met with commercial success until about 1960 when Fairchild introduced their sound camera and projector. At the same time Kodak introduced the Kodak Sound 8 Model 1 (which was basically the same projector as the Calvin except a totally re-designed sound head and amp).

After the launch of the Kodak and Fairchild Projectors, Castle Films offered some 8mm magnetic sound versions of their 16mm Sound deluxe editions and shortly thereafter added some color titles.

AAP (which had the Warner Bros pre-48 library) then offered some 8mm sound cartoons (which were edits to 100 feet) of Bugs Bunny, etc. My first AAP title was "All This and Rabbit Stew"--a title that has since disappeared because of political correctness.

It was after that that Blackhawk entered the market and others followed. In 1963 Super 8 was introducted and sound quickly became available.

Posted by Barry Johnson (Member # 84) on February 15, 2007, 12:55 PM:

Yes those projectors were real beauties as I recall,but according to my documentaion,the standardised picture to sound seperation was not met,which was of course set at 56 frames.
It was left to that bloody awful Cirse to set the ball rolling.
Would be interested to know what you could find out about the picture sound seperation though if you can seek it out.
Barry

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