8mm Forum: Elmo GS800

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Posted by Peter Richards (Member # 738) on February 10, 2007, 09:30 AM:

This has turned up on the bay and was wondering your thoughts between this and the Sankyo S800

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Elmo-GS800-Stereo-Super-8mm-Projector_W0QQitemZ250082845216QQihZ015QQcategoryZ1476QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on February 10, 2007, 09:40 AM:

Peter this is the smaller version of Elmos 1200 series.its a good machine,but for my money,and im going to upset a lot of Elmo fans,on this forum...the Sankyo is much better.I did say in a previous post that the Sankyo stereo 800,is the best stereo800 machine there is.I stand by that view.Andy.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on February 10, 2007, 09:47 AM:

Hope this helps.
I had no less than 3 GS800 machines at one point and all three scratched the film next to the main stripe. The first two I had from new, and the third used. The problem was with poor finish to part of the film path guide at it entered the sound head. The two new machines had new guides fitted within warranty periods but some months later did the same thing all over again!

I still have my Sankyo Stereo 800 which convereted to 1200ft reels and it runs perfectly even after all these years and must have seen years not months of use. I hanged the belt one and just clean the gate etc as usual.

If it was me I would stick with the Sankyo 800 as long as it has been looked after.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on February 10, 2007, 10:02 AM:

I have owned both machines as well. The Sankyo was much nicer. Better sound, brighter bulb, and the most important part of all it was much kinder to film. The GS800 seems almost Chinon like in its brutality to film! [Eek!]

Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on February 10, 2007, 10:13 AM:

A real horror story there Lee.Super8 is dear enough without having a machine giving our super8 films marks/lines etc.
My GS1200 stereo is getting serviced,that has been a bloody nightmare for Kevin Faulkner,of this forum.
The only thing that is Sankyo's problem is gate wear;they are well known for it.Once you replacement that problem,it runns as a super 8mm projector should.It has only scrathed my film due to a worn gate assembley.it was fixed,no more lines.marks etc.Need i say more.Andy.

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on February 10, 2007, 11:43 AM:

I'd go with the Sankyo, but then I would [Wink]

.

The Sankyo has a brighter bulb (150w) and, if you can find one, it's possible to fit it with the Sankyo Hi-Pro lens. The best thing about Sankyos though has to be that they are very kind to film, I haven't yet had one damage a film.

On top of that they have a nice steady image and belting good stereo sound. And whilst I guess it's a matter of opinion; I think they look sexy too [Big Grin]

.

Mike

Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on February 10, 2007, 12:13 PM:

Mike,You are 110% correct.I to im with you on this one.Andy.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on February 10, 2007, 04:42 PM:

And me too.....believe it or not [Big Grin]

The thing I really don't like about the GS800 is the really annoying problem of static discharge.
Yes it can be cured but it's a bugger of a problem to sort. This problem of wear is one I have also heard of before but have not actually seen a machine giving the problem so cant comment on why it should do this so quickly especially when the same parts are used round the head area as on the ST1200HD or GS1200, ST600 machines.

The Sankyo's are well made machines and are kind to film but I have worked on a few of them with the most extraordinary electrical problems mainly round the sound output circuitry or motor control board. Like the Elmos parts are getting difficult to source so beware of this where the gate is concerned.

The Sankyo's have good sound and a rock solid picture [Smile]

Andy, If you dont mind I will post the story of your poor GS on here at some point as i think it might make interesting reading for other members [Eek!]

Kev.

Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on February 10, 2007, 07:38 PM:

I dont mind at all Kevin.The thing is though,would the other forum members be able to take it.After all,for you and i its been more terrfing than anything made by Universal or Hammer films.Andy.
P.S you have pm's Kevin.

Posted by Peter Richards (Member # 738) on February 11, 2007, 12:28 AM:

Thanks to all for a very interesting topic and seems the Sankyo 800 is by far the favourite machine [Cool]

I take it that these Hi-Pro lenses are a rare find,everything thing i've read about them suggest that if you own a Sankyo they are a must have.

And rare means they probably fetch really good prices

Did Sankyo only make these in small numbers instead of mass producing them.

Looking forward to reading Kev's post on Andys GS,sounds like a complete nightmare.

Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on February 11, 2007, 04:06 AM:

Peter..It is.Andy.Mine you it was not as bad as forum member Brian Hendel,truly frighting story of his GS1200.

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on February 11, 2007, 05:46 AM:

I Had one that was scratching the living daylights out of prints.
Phil Sheard told me when I mentioned having one that they all suffered from the fault and many were sold off cheap, Ouch.
Best wishes Mark.

Posted by Del Phillipson (Member # 513) on February 11, 2007, 06:13 AM:

flippin heck, I nearly bought one of those a couple of years ago before I bought the GS1200, close escape [Eek!]

Posted by Peter Richards (Member # 738) on February 11, 2007, 06:30 AM:

It will be very interesting to see exactly what these 2 Projector's sell for:-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SANKYO-STEREO-800-SUPER-8-SOUND-PROJECTOR_W0QQitemZ120083134350QQihZ002QQcategoryZ11722QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Elmo-GS800-Stereo-Super-8mm-Projector_W0QQitemZ250082845216QQihZ015QQcategoryZ1476QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on February 11, 2007, 07:21 AM:

I would imagine that the Elmo would be sold for the most money purely on the Elmo name, even though the Sankyo might be better.

Just looked at the final minutes of the auction.
The Sankyo winning bid was £160

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on February 11, 2007, 07:34 AM:

The Sankyo went on a few very last second bids at £160 quite a good price if OK, I wouldn`t fancy a GS800 for that myself unless absolutely mint and one of the later ones.
best Mark.

Posted by Peter Richards (Member # 738) on February 11, 2007, 08:17 AM:

I was tempted but at that sort of money i'd rather be able to pick it up myself rather than put my faith in the sellers packing or dare i say it "The Postman"

Well if the Elmo sells for more and is brutal on film then i pity the buyer especially as films don't come cheap these days.

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on February 11, 2007, 08:36 AM:

Peter

If you're interested, I could send you a scan of the Move Maker test report of the Sankyo Stereo 800. Just send me a pm with an email address and I'll get it off to you.

Mike

Posted by Peter Richards (Member # 738) on February 11, 2007, 08:59 AM:

Mike,I've already got it along with the 700 test report you sent to me last week [Wink]

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on February 11, 2007, 09:09 AM:

Oops, sorry, I forgot [Roll Eyes]

. I've sent out so many and of course haven't kept any record of who's had what.

Interestingly, the most often requested have been the Sankyo 800, the Elmo ST1200 and the Elmo GS 1200, in that order.

Mike [Cool]

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on February 11, 2007, 09:40 AM:

Hi Mike I`d be very interested please if you can email some this way.
Do you remember that nice 800 you sourced for me locally( thanks) but as is often the case at this end slightly penurious doings so I left it. Should have got it.
Best Mark
PS do you have my rowdy3 email.

Posted by Alessandro Machi (Member # 461) on February 11, 2007, 07:01 PM:

Man oh man, can a projector be more beaten into the ground then what you are stating about the Elmo, sheesh.

I never tried the Sankyo, I ran my Elmo GS800 to death back in film school days. I never wanted to part with it but I had a chance to trade it for Canon 814XLS, so I did. I still miss the bugger. I have entered the Rutgers Super-8 film festival the past two years and my two super-8 films that have become finalists had their sound applied via the Elmo GS800 projector, a long long time ago. For me the Elmo GS-800 was a terrific projector but it's just as possible that the Sankyo is even better. lol, I became frightened of the Sankyo mark in general when they came out with a camera in which the lens felt kind of like it was made out of plastic. It actually took good pictures however.

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on February 12, 2007, 07:07 PM:

Hi, all.
I have owned a Sankyo 800 for more than 10 years now and probably run a few kilometers of film through it, always scratch-free.
So I was wondering why is it the gate assembly is so famous for worning and what the clues are it is about to need replacement Noise? Jitter?).
Thamks a lot for the info.

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on February 13, 2007, 02:22 AM:

To be honest Maurizio, this is the first I've heard of a problem with the gate...

Mike

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on February 13, 2007, 04:07 AM:

Same for me, hence my question. Andrew Wilson brought this up in this thread, so probably he's the right person to answer it; Andrew?
Thanks

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on February 13, 2007, 10:01 AM:

As far as I'm aware it's a mainly plastic gate and like all plastic is subject to wear.
It gets more noisy with an unstable image as it wears. This is at least one place where the Elmo's do score with their professional, all metal gate construction. Shame about the rest of their guides.

When looking at the GS800 against the Sankyo 800 I would say the Sankyo gives you more value for your money. Both have their problems as do all makes of machine.

Kev.

Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on February 13, 2007, 11:37 AM:

It would be a nice idea if a section on this forum could be devoted to points to look at when considering to buy projectors. We all know too well the wear points on the GS1200 so we can do a quick inspection with a penlight to check these points, but what about other projectors like Eumig's and Bauer's as every projector will have wear in different places depending whether they are plastic or metal parts and the quality of the build.

Im not asking for books to be written about them, just a few lines on each that people can use for a quick inspection. Most projectors at cine fairs do not get sold because people do not like taking a risk on something, unless it is a bargain price.

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on February 13, 2007, 12:37 PM:

Hi I thought it was all metal chromed, but the chrome wears.
You do get wear on the bauer front gates as they are plastic, but worth it if you change them now and again as super quiet.
As with most things probaly comes down to wether your films have soemthing nice and greasy on to ease them through.
Best wishes Mark.
PS the 301 sankyo does have a plastic gate one side but up from there, denately 501 up I thought were all metal.

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on February 13, 2007, 12:50 PM:

Just checked my 800 and that's certainly metal

Mike [Cool]

Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on February 13, 2007, 03:02 PM:

Well gentlemen.I can only speak of my expericence with the sankyo.
It not acuatlly the gate itself,but the film plate.The top spring ,and the gate plate become very lose indeed.Remember the gate plate is the one with the square hole for the picture frames of the super8 film.The result is an unstable image,so Kevin is correct there,and the loss of the lower loop.Believe me you will notice gate wear on the sankyo 800.However having said all this,i am still a fan of the 800 SANKYO.I have said its the greastest of all the 800ft machines that were made.I stand by that comment.Andy.

Posted by Jason Redmond (Member # 730) on February 13, 2007, 04:33 PM:

Hi guys,
It's my Elmo GS800 that's for sale. Interesting comments on it! I've run it a lot, but now prefer my Eumig S940 (brighter lamp, sharper picture). It hasn't scratched any of my precious collection, and I've trusted it with all sorts, from Our Gang prints that were very brittle to a brand new print of Return of The Jedi. It runs smoothly, and sounds great. As I state in the auction, I'm only selling because it ranks 4th behind the Eumig S940, my S938 and a Bauer T610 I own, and the wife is getting fed up with the space being taken up!

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on February 13, 2007, 06:14 PM:

Hi, guys.
Kevin, sorry to disagree with you but the Sankyo 800's film gate is all metal. The bottom of the line model 301's is partly plastic, i.e. the pressure facing the lens, while the guiding film path is metal.
The noise from the Sankyo 800 is only really annoying when the film is dry and needs lubrication; in that case it may be scratched. Otherwise this machine is really gentle on film. Mine has had kilomnetrs of film run through it and no sign of wear is to be seen anywhere amidst the film gate. The weakest part of this projector imho is the claw assembly cam, as it it some sort of (hard) plastic, but this is said in very relative terms; it will last for years of above-average hard work if properly greased. MOtor, transformer and sound heads are great, I suspect they match the heads mounted on the GS 1200 in terms of durability.

Andrew I really can't understand how the Sankyo's plate may become loose without unscrewing it from the main mount.

The only way to see this projector lose the lower loop is when the claw arm nylon pin resting on the shutter cam has worned out; in that case, the claw's tooth cannot recess enough prior to move upwards, and the film is pulled up for a fraction of a second, resulting in visible jitter on the screen at the beginning of the problem, and loss of the loops in the worst cases.
I think this projector has got fewer features than the GS 1200 operation-wise, but the features it shares with the Elmo are almost on the same level.
Don't understand what you mean, guys.

Posted by Alessandro Machi (Member # 461) on February 13, 2007, 09:42 PM:

I think the GS 800 had the sexiest motor purr of any 8mm projector, that counts for something doesn't it? [Embarrassed]

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on February 14, 2007, 01:10 AM:

OK, I got that wrong. Its a while now since I had a good look at a Sankyo.
I do know that some of there machines had plastic gates but maybe earlier models like Mark said earlier.

It's well known that the Sankyo 800's and the rest of that later series wear round the gate area causing the gate to loosen and therefore the film to run unsteady.

This probably depends on just how much film has been run on them. It's a point to watch when buying a Sankyo.

The Noris machines have a similar problem in that the claw cam wears and they become noisy and unsteady so as I said earlier all machines do tend to have their own traits to watch out for.

Kev.

Posted by Knut Nordahl (Member # 518) on February 14, 2007, 01:54 AM:

I wonder what the life expecany in 1980 was for a new ELMO GS 800 or SANKYO 800 or any other projector for that matter.

I doubt it was close to 30 years...

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on February 14, 2007, 06:41 AM:

Knut, I think that comment of yours is spot on. I don't think they ever thought these machines would be around for so many years with us bunch keeping them running.

They probably didn't even imagine that we would be putting the miles of film through these machine that we do.

Kev.

Posted by Mike Peckham (Member # 16) on February 14, 2007, 07:18 AM:

Jason

Welcome to the forum! [Smile]

Good luck with your sale, I think we can all relate to the dilemma of having to many Projectors [Wink]

.

Mike

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on February 14, 2007, 11:35 AM:

Crumbs, this is a heated debate folks..
Expect we all have our faves but like Jason I do favour the Eumig 900 series here. Why? I like the twin tooth claw, but then again I also like the Sankyo.. We just cant win lads and lasses!

I have Elmos but I am not so keen on the heavy metal cases which I find give off quite a bit of acoustic rumble and I never did like the top feed sprocket on the GS1200 which picked at the sprocket holes of shrunken films making that blasted noise, although the tolerances are possibly better on the Elmo sprokets and more suited to new films perhaps. The Eumig 940 is so quiet possibly due to the plastic casing and I do like this machine very much.

If I had to make a hard choice I would stick with a Sankyo 800 or the Eumig 940 or 938. My own experience with GS800 machines was not a good one and I still somewhere have a couple in the house...I think. But they have not been used for some time as I was never happy with them. But that is just my view...

A local cine club got one of the GS800's some time ago new and they spent just about every available moment I should think trying to sort out either film scratching, or the sound playback problems on it. I found out in time that the scratching was worse on Paste stripe films due to the thinner paste than with laminate.

The two films I produced in the 90's that Perrys later released to super 8 collectors were both recorded on a GS800 and onto laminate stripe. Recordings were always top quality and I felt better than my GS1200.

All the above are just my own little views and may not be shared by many, but use of these machines over the years always play a part in what works best and that was why I put the GS800's back into the boxes and they aint been out for several years to give a show.

Update PS:: One of the films I produced is now on the Derann S/H lists as follows.
607 - THE CINEMA IN MINIANTURE, 1x60m - B - £16.99
Excellent amateur film from LAP Films which includes a look at the 9.5mm and super 8mm collectors' market, with an interesting behind the scenes look at Perry's Movies, Derann and the Northern Film Collectors Convention in Blackpool

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on February 14, 2007, 04:47 PM:

Got my "Cinema in Miniature" off the Derann lists a few years ago.

-A small gauge film about small gauge film! I couldn't resist!

Nice job, Lee!

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on February 15, 2007, 03:27 AM:

Hard to split them in my opinion. The Sankyo does become very unstable when the projector has had lots of use. The image suffers from jitter and it is because of the gate losing tension, surfaces burnishing (wear) and also the claw adjustment (wear).

The Sankyo plastic bodied lenses also suffer after plenty of use as the plastic adjustment gear wears right at your focus point, particularly if you set up in the same position all the time. I have had several Sankyos including one from brand new and these problems are common. When fresh they give a very steady picture with an efficient light path and quality sound.

My experience with Elmo's has varied. My first ST 1200 was a dog; would not thread, noisey and scratched film. Eventually I remedied all the faults but it was never right. My current ST 1200 unit is excellent with no problems at all.

I have had many other Elmo's and found almost every model to be excellent, even the 600 and 800.

David

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on February 15, 2007, 05:21 AM:

Looks like "Horses for Courses" you win some you loose some etc etc. I suppose that all the machines as I said earlier have their short comings in one way or another. What's good is that we are still keeping them going especially when you consider this disposable age we live in.

We speak of the Sankyo's and the wear to the claw cam, lens etc etc and the Elmo's with their guide wear but just how much use did these manufactures think their 8mm machines would get probably not to the point where they would wear out.

Not doing much with Sankyo machines myself can someone tell me if these problem parts are in fact still available? How are people getting round the problems mentioned by David which we have heard many times before on the forum. Dont forget the main motor in the GS1200 is the same as the one used in the Sankyo late range inc, the 800. Do they fail in the Sankyo and what do people do about it?

Are there still spares for the Eumigs, Noris, Bauer etc

All questions I have been thinking of since this thread started.

what are your experiences with keeping your machines going?

Kev.

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on February 15, 2007, 11:15 AM:

Hi, Kevin.
To address your question: every time a buy a new machine, I set out on the task to find spares; over the years I collected a remarkable inventory of spare parts for all of my machines. Of course I focus on those parts which suggest wear on the long term. Then, should need for replacemnt of some part occur, I do it myself.
But spares are indeed getting scarce, especially Eumig's sound heads. In some cases it is advisable to get a non-working machine like one you already owe to escavange it out of necessity.
Perhaps it is not that there no more any spares, but most likely those who have them (i.e. repairmen and techinicain) aren't willing to part from them, as they are more profitable if they can also charge workmanship on them. But this is merely guesswork.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on February 15, 2007, 05:43 PM:

Maurizio, thats probably spot on. These people will be able to charge well over the odds prices for them too. [Frown]

Kev.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on February 16, 2007, 10:07 AM:

Now I am tired.
Just been in the loft getting rest of my Farnworth stall together and found the Elmo boxes. This then led me to open a box of spares (as you were asking about spares) and i found the dreaded GS800 sound head chrome guide. Seems I had spares after all.

Update: The GS chrome sound head guide has just been sold to a forum member.

[ February 16, 2007, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: Lee Mannering ]

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on February 17, 2007, 12:20 AM:

I have access to good parts supplies for Elmo and Eumig here, I don't know of any for Sankyo. Sankyo in Australia were handled by Hanimex; I have not followed them up for parts since the 1980's. When a Sankyo is cactus, I have just sat it aside until a donor machine comes along.

When it has come to one of my personal projectors that has been in need of an unavaible spare, I have just put it aside. Lets face it Super 8 projectors have been plentiful and cheap over the last 20 years. This is beginning to change and good projectors will become harder to find, as will parts. To date this slide has equalled demand, but that could change quickly.

David

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on February 18, 2007, 04:37 AM:

Hi David! Can you share your source of Elmo spare parts? I'm interested in the sound head (with black erase section) and the chrome plated head guide. Please email me : mauriziodicintio at hotmail dot com.
Thanks.
Maurizio

Posted by Peter Richards (Member # 738) on February 19, 2007, 11:34 AM:

This has been a very interesting thread and after reading everyone's comments i think Knut was spot on and i think sometimes we forget that these machines are so old and any projector that's been well used is probably going to scratch film whatever the make.

Fantastic price you got Jason for your Elmo [Smile]

Posted by Keith Ashfield (Member # 741) on February 19, 2007, 11:50 AM:

Well done Jason, what a superb price for your Elmo. It must feel great to have sold it for that price, after the dejection you must have felt, at times, reading this topic. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and that is why this Forum is so great. As one of the unsuccesfull bidders I congratulate the winning bidder, whoever he/she may be. Jason, spend the money wisely, on more Super 8, of course, what else!
Well done, regards Keith

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